Wounded? Yes or No?

[JG26Irish_2]

I agree 100% with the comments to trust your PH with regards to hits. My earlier point was that animals do not always react the same to hits and some do not react at all to fatal shots. A fresh blood trail is a pretty definitive indicator. Also, the sound of the bullet impact is another. However, the lack of that sound does not mean the animal was missed. Often, a double lung broadside shot that is a bit too far back will not make enough of an audible impact sound to be heard over the rifle shot. If you hear it you know but if you do not, you cannot assume it was a miss. Several of the clear indicators such as fall, hump up, jump, buck, run with the front leg limp, etc are all great indicators of an animal that was hit. Just, know that if none of those were evident, you still may have killed or wounded the beast.

Even a very experienced big game hunter cannot come close to the level of real world expertise that a modestly experienced PH will possess. Think about it. We hunt for a week or 10 days or perhaps a bit longer every year or two in Africa, plus maybe an annual deer/elk/antelope hunt in NA if we are lucky. A good PH who stays booked most of the African season may hunt 200 days out of the year and literally witness hundreds of animals reactions every season. So, yes trust your PH. He/She is going to go out of his/her way to treat you right and, if possible, recover your animal. If you do not believe that, then I would suggest that you may not be hunting with the right outfit.

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

I agree 100% with the comments to trust your PH with regards to hits. My earlier point was that animals do not always react the same to hits and some do not react at all to fatal shots. A fresh blood trail is a pretty definitive indicator. Also, the sound of the bullet impact is another. However, the lack of that sound does not mean the animal was missed. Often, a double lung broadside shot that is a bit too far back will not make enough of an audible impact sound to be heard over the rifle shot. If you hear it you know but if you do not, you cannot assume it was a miss. Several of the clear indicators such as fall, hump up, jump, buck, run with the front leg limp, etc are all great indicators of an animal that was hit. Just, know that if none of those were evident, you still may have killed or wounded the beast.

Even a very experienced big game hunter cannot come close to the level of real world expertise that a modestly experienced PH will possess. Think about it. We hunt for a week or 10 days or perhaps a bit longer every year or two in Africa, plus maybe an annual deer/elk/antelope hunt in NA if we are lucky. A good PH who stays booked most of the African season may hunt 200 days out of the year and literally witness hundreds of animals reactions every season. So, yes trust your PH. He/She is going to go out of his/her way to treat you right and, if possible, recover your animal. If you do not believe that, then I would suggest that you may not be hunting with the right outfit.

Well said

Trust your ph and tracker!!

 

[russ473]

Normally PH and tracker can hear if its a hit or not and can see the animals reaction, ive tracked clients animals for a long distance without blood and then found the animal with a huge pool of blood, can be very tricky situation and call to make...

 

[IvW]

What I am concerned about is how do you take a shot at night at eyes and make a totally un educated guess as to where to aim? Left or right of the eyes? How low? How far left or right?
Baffles my brains.....

We all wound animals, sometimes things happen like twigs or brush in the way that was not visible etc. But making sure of the shot before pulling the trigger will go a long way to avoiding these issues.

Yes we have all wounded animals....

 

[SoVa]

Just my 2 pennies worth but I would think if blood, meat, hair ect is found at the target site or following the tracks then I would expect to pay the associated fee.
A simple "looks like you hit it, you owe me" probably would require a bit further investigation.

I agree with @BnC 04 i will add that this conversation is best had with your PH/guide before the hunting starts so everyone knows the rules they are playing by not after the shot in question has happened.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

This thread and a few other recent posts have mentioned wounding animals that go unrecovered. These uncertain shots hitting animals or possible misses, shooting through brush or trees on on multiple occasions resulting in bad shots and wounding animals, some shots on animals with blood trails that indicate hits and are deemed likely non-terminal, are both concerning and confusing to me.

Likely due to my experience in South Africa where, as I understand it, if you draw blood you are responsible for the animal shot. My understanding is, unless there is some very specific circumstance that concludes in a mutual agreement of dismissal of the responsibility, the animal shot has to be paid for by the person that shot it, even if it is not recovered. Is this true for other African countries? Are animals in other countries where the concession is low fence for example, considered “free game”? If so, is the animal that is shot, not the responsibility of the shooter?

It is my inexperience with other African countries (Other than SA) that raises the questions.

Why not just pass on a bad or uncertain shot, instead of taking the chance of mortally wounding an animal? I have passed on bad or uncertain shots many times in Africa…

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Why not just pass on a bad or uncertain shot, instead of taking the chance of mortally wounding an animal? I have passed on bad or uncertain shots many times in Africa…

Because no shot is certain.

 

[steve white]

To me it is the animals reaction. But I have had them rear up on their rear legs, take off like shot out of a cannon, just stand there, and a few other things.

On my last hunt I took a shot at a kudu. My PH and tracker said "good shot" but a hour later he was finally on the ground. Fractions of a inch really matter. We tracked that bull from the thick brush to some open country and then back to patchy brush to finally get the second bullet into him and needing a third when he got back up as we approached.

I have also had animals that took off with zero sign that they had been hit. I had a mule deer at 20 yards once where after I took the shot took off. I checked where he was standing, no blood. I looked again and no clipped hairs. I followed his tracks, still no blood. I went back to where I shot him from and made sure that I was looking at the correct place. I was. I figured that It was a clean miss, I didn't know how but that is what the evidence said. I headed back to my truck for some lunch only to come upon this buck laying in the trail surrounded in a pool of blood. He had ran a good 100 yards before he dropped.

Good for you to follow up, not only successful in this instance, but best practice. At the end of the day, however, I would not wish to pay a fee for only clipped hair with no blood, no animal...

 

[jeff]

Some PHs are under a lot of pressure from their outfitter to get the package filled. I have had PHs pressure me to take poor shots but ultimately the choice is yours. In the 22 African hunts I've had most PHs were very qualified, only one was completely without experience and a couple others were not experienced enough with bowhunters. Trust needs to be earned on both parties. Usually in just a couple hours you will know if your PH is qualified and he will know the same about you.

 

[CJW]

@Tbitty What broadhead were you using on that deer? I shot a big bodied buck many years ago with those Rocket 7/8" 3 blade heads and had a somewhat similar experience. I watched the arrow go through his ribcage and he did a 180 but just acted like he had been spooked, not shot. He trotted and walked off a bit and just stood there before eventually falling over. I went and picked up my red arrow but no blood to be found on the ground. Upon gutting him I found a massive amount of clotted blood in the rib cage. It was a good double lung and whatever else hit but just too high for those little heads to cause an external bleed.


In Namibia I shot an oryx at a good quartering away angle. My pH looked at me after he ran off and told me I missed. I looked right back and told him "no I didn't". He did indeed die within 50 yds or so but it took our tracker to find him. No blood and no noticeable reaction to the hit could have lead to the conclusion that that animal was cleanly missed.

 

[375Fox]

This thread and a few other recent posts have mentioned wounding animals that go unrecovered. These uncertain shots hitting animals or possible misses, shooting through brush or trees on on multiple occasions resulting in bad shots and wounding animals, some shots on animals with blood trails that indicate hits and are deemed likely non-terminal, are both concerning and confusing to me.

Likely due to my experience in South Africa where, as I understand it, if you draw blood you are responsible for the animal shot. My understanding is, unless there is some very specific circumstance that concludes in a mutual agreement of dismissal of the responsibility, the animal shot has to be paid for by the person that shot it, even if it is not recovered. Is this true for other African countries? Are animals in other countries where the concession is low fence for example, considered “free game”? If so, is the animal that is shot, not the responsibility of the shooter?

It is my inexperience with other African countries (Other than SA) that raises the questions.

Why not just pass on a bad or uncertain shot, instead of taking the chance of mortally wounding an animal? I have passed on bad or uncertain shots many times in Africa…

If you wound an animal in a concession area, you pay for it and it counts against the outfitter’s quota. Depending on the country and area you hunt it will go into the community or government game scout’s log book as well. If you wound an animal in a low fence privately owned area like Namibia, the landowner still wants payment. They might be able to offer you another opportunity though to take another animal though. Wounding policies are essentially the same in all African countries, but you have more flexibility on private land to come to an alternative arrangement with a landowner. Areas on government issued quota are more strict.

 

[Tbitty]

@CJW
Magnus Stinger 125gr with the bleeder blades. 100% pass throughs so far on a few dozen hogs and deer and one black bear, all with great blood trails. That one instance is an outlier to the rest of my results

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

If you wound an animal in a concession area, you pay for it and it counts against the outfitter’s quota. Depending on the country and area you hunt it will go into the community or government game scout’s log book as well. If you wound an animal in a low fence privately owned area like Namibia, the landowner still wants payment. They might be able to offer you another opportunity though to take another animal though. Wounding policies are essentially the same in all African countries, but you have more flexibility on private land to come to an alternative arrangement with a landowner. Areas on government issued quota are more strict.

This all makes sense to me. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Because no shot is certain.

I had a "slam dunk" shot on my first Kudu. Under 80 yards in some fairly open cover. I did not see anything in the way of the shot through the scope.

When I pulled the trigger we saw and heard absolutely no reaction and I was baffled. The Kudu was confused where the sound came from and just continued walking slowly.
The PH made me stay low and we posed the shot again and we looked for a reason. We had time, as the Kudu was still relaxed. (Amazing).
We found a very tiny branch that had been a few inches in front of the barrel that had been nipped off like it had been browsed. It was a deflection from that small branch.
We moved along the path reset and I ended up getting my Kudu after we made sure there were absolutely no branches close to the rifle muzzle.
It was quite a lesson.
No shot is certain. Can't agree more.

 

[HankBuck]

Good for you to follow up, not only successful in this instance, but best practice. At the end of the day, however, I would not wish to pay a fee for only clipped hair with no blood, no animal...

@steve white - agree and why most policies state “Draw Blood = trophy fee paid.
Unless there is Blood or a dead animal I would Not expect to be asked to pay a fee. Some PH’s work in areas where there is a lot of pressure to collect a certain number of animals or fees and I understand that’s where the money is made. I think All good PHs will do everything they can to recover your wounded animal and that includes every effort to find blood - the trackers I’ve witnessed don’t miss even a “spec” of blood and those trackers are amazing.

 

[KTMpilot]

Last year I had a client take a shot on a black wildebeest bull, 80 yards, frontal. I was on the binoculars and heard the shot hit and saw the animal buck as if it was hit before it ran off with the rest of the herd. When we went to follow up, neither the tracker nor I saw any blood, hair or bone, and we tracked the fleeing herd's tracks for about 2 hours, and could not see any blood, nor spoor noticeably showing a wounded or limping animal amongst them. During the next 2 days we again saw that herd and not one of the animals in the herd looked wounded, same number of bulls as always. We agreed with the client it was a miss, no payment needed and he went home.

Two weeks later however one of the other PH's came upon a dead bull in the veld, with a shot in exactly the place where my client had aimed, the shot had just missed the bottom of the heart and went straight through the left lung, took him probably a week to die. We then contacted the client back in the USA and advised him we had found his bull and we had a spare cape, so he agreed to pay for the animal and we sent off the skull and horns and cape to the USA.

 

[VertigoBE]

Last year I had a client take a shot on a black wildebeest bull, 80 yards, frontal. I was on the binoculars and heard the shot hit and saw the animal buck as if it was hit before it ran off with the rest of the herd. When we went to follow up, neither the tracker nor I saw any blood, hair or bone, and we tracked the fleeing herd's tracks for about 2 hours, and could not see any blood, nor spoor noticeably showing a wounded or limping animal amongst them. During the next 2 days we again saw that herd and not one of the animals in the herd looked wounded, same number of bulls as always. We agreed with the client it was a miss, no payment needed and he went home.

Two weeks later however one of the other PH's came upon a dead bull in the veld, with a shot in exactly the place where my client had aimed, the shot had just missed the bottom of the heart and went straight through the left lung, took him probably a week to die. We then contacted the client back in the USA and advised him we had found his bull and we had a spare cape, so he agreed to pay for the animal and we sent off the skull and horns and cape to the USA.

This sounds like a textbook example of how a difficult situation can be resolved to the satisfaction of all parties.

 

[KTMpilot]

This sounds like a textbook example of how a difficult situation can be resolved to the satisfaction of all parties.

It was a difficult one, since initially all agreeing that it was a total miss, when clearly it wasn't and the client said he felt really good about the shot, this really knocked his self-confidence for the last 2 days of the hunt and he ended up not attempting another shot for fear of "missing totally" again. So it wasn't as simple as all agreeing that he had missed totally to settle the issue about paying, there were other consequences.

 

[LivingTheDream]

@sgt_zim: that is very interesting reaction from a “Whitetail” ie: NO Reaction??
I’ve killed many whitetail - well over 150 including both rifle, shotgun and bow. In my limited experiance they are the MOST reactive of all big game animals, they always react and violently - jumping, running, kicking,….even clean pass thrus with a bow/arrow they always “react” although sometimes only jog a few feet-stop-drop dead. With a rifle or shotgun - never had one that didn’t either drop on the spot or run like hell. What you describe matches my experiance with Elk or Moose but NOT whitetail deer ——those sissies can’t “take a punch”.

I have had quite a few whitetails not react. One in particular, I shot with a bow, and it didn't move, flinch, kick or anything. Just turned and looked at the arrow on the ground. I thought I shot low, but then saw blood slowly trickle out and the deer turned and looked at the blood. It then fell over like the wind blew it over. One of the craziest things I have seen.

 

[Bhfs300]

Here is kind of a related story.
A woman from I think California was mule deer hunting In western Wyoming with a guide and she shot at a good mule deer on their way down a hill to look the guide spots a monster buck to the side he lines the lady up and she shoots at that time the record mule deer for a female in Wyoming. No place in the article did it say anything about the buck she shot at first just a great photo with the record buck?
I hoped that other people thought it was kind of strange.