Would you hunt in Africa, in case the trophies could not be imported to your country?

[Anthonyt42]

No....For me there is a lot to this question. As a USA citizen I'm challenged morally already about not being able to bring back meat as it is. Taking away a trophy from the hunt would make me say no giving the current cost of hunting africa including flights. If the cost went down or if the meat became able to bring home, then I would say yes. Some of the food, service, accommodation they offer would make a great vacation. I just don't think I'd pay 10k to shoot A animal and get no meat or trophy for a week when I could spend that money in Texas or wherever and get all above.

 

[Tanks]

No....For me there is a lot to this question. As a USA citizen I'm challenged morally already about not being able to bring back meat as it is. Taking away a trophy from the hunt would make me say no giving the current cost of hunting africa including flights. If the cost went down or if the meat became able to bring home, then I would say yes. Some of the food, service, accommodation they offer would make a great vacation. I just don't think I'd pay 10k to shoot A animal and get no meat or trophy for a week when I could spend that money in Texas or wherever and get all above.

I have no issues with not bringing back the meat. Part of the value that is being provided to the local communities from hunts is the meat being distributed.

This was elephant meat being distributed. People came from miles to get some meat. At the end nothing was left.

 

[Aaron N]

This is difficult question that has a point, for which I really have no idea.

On the other hand, it could arguably be compared to catch and release fishing.
Did catch and release fishing stopped sport fishing?

I was thinking about how catch and release would tie into this, and the best argument I could come up with is how many people spend 10k on a catch and release fishing trip?

I think our best comparison would be vitadart rhino hunts. I’m not sure what the for and against numbers would be for those.

 

[Hunt anything]

With catch and release fishing I still have the option to take fish home, except when the season is closed so we spend most of our time running from red snapper in the gulf.

 

[CEO]

Tough question. I have to agree we're one generation removed from a serious problem if all trophies are banned. As someone who hasn't been to Africa, I feel the need for some physical reminders. If I never have a Cape Buffalo euro for my home office it'll be a tough pill to swallow. This is coming from a guy who isn't huge on taxidermy.

I would probably still go just for the experience, but the price I'd be willing to pay is probably lower than it is now.

 

[mark-hunter]

I was thinking about how catch and release would tie into this, and the best argument I could come up with is how many people spend 10k on a catch and release fishing trip?

Hard to say. Catch and release it may not necessarily be, but neither it will be catch and bring home. On many of the deals and offers on this forum, fishing, or tiger fishing is optional, and included, and how many of those fish get to taxidermy and shipping phase?

The fact is, trophy hunting is the most expensive hobby in the world, (unlike fishing, for example) which partly is the reason for not being socialy and culturaly accpeted everywhere in the world.

 

[375Fox]

But lets bring the subject to another perspective.
Does the concession fee really stop encroachment or urbanisation?
Is it really that high?
Will the goverment say: stop urbanisation becasue we are getting good money from the land as it is, managed by safari operators?
(unless the bribe is paid under the table)

I know, that in my country when local municipality needs to develop to adjoining hunting concession, this has never stopped development or urbanisation. Same for interstate highway constructions.
What happens next is that hunting concession is reduced in acreage, and development and construction begins on new land.

So, hunting area financial revenue from paid concesion, does provide habitat conservation, but it does not stop development in western countries. When they see the need, they are reducing it

I dont see how can it stop in third world countries.

The major difference between a western country and an African country in this respect is western countries aren’t getting their primary revenue from hunting dollars. I wish I had a photo of the revenue streams that were on board in front of community office in Caprivi. Hunting was top income generator by a wide margin, then tourism, then timber, then farming, then digging a type of root, and so on. When a community is at risk of losing half their income and the outfitter at risk of losing revenue to makes it possible to stop/reduce encroachment into these areas and have ongoing discussions to protect area. Hunting dollars are nothing in developed countries compared to the rest of the economy.

 

[Tam Dl]

I think the bigger issue over time is just the ostracization that will be possible. Banning the importation of hides is to have all the western nations agree that hunting is fundamentally immoral. Apparently major banks are now banning the issuance of banking services to people with certain social media profiles. This may or not be true, but a lot worse is going on, so why not. Would I be worried about not having taxidermy return with me. Probably not. In a social credit world, there are a lot larger problems.

And without categorizing anyone's views, most big game hunters seem to be vaccinated and willing to travel currently. You may or not be aware of the rather bizzar social world that is evolving around us.

 

[Woodcarver]

I think the bigger issue over time is just the ostracization that will be possible. Banning the importation of hides is to have all the western nations agree that hunting is fundamentally immoral. Apparently major banks are now banning the issuance of banking services to people with certain social media profiles. This may or not be true, but a lot worse is going on, so why not. Would I be worried about not having taxidermy return with me. Probably not. In a social credit world, there are a lot larger problems.

And without categorizing anyone's views, most big game hunters seem to be vaccinated and willing to travel currently. You may or not be aware of the rather bizzar social world that is evolving around us.

This is very descriptive of what is happening. I would not agree with the observation that most big game hunters are vaccinated and willing to travel. Some of the other forums I frequent would give me a different impression as they are focused primarily on hunting NA and less inclined to get stuck. It does seem that people, whether they hunt or not, seem to be more willing to be vaccinated if they have interest in international travel; I definitely see that here on AH and on dive forums.

But in regards to the effect of a ban by western nations, I absolutely agree with the potential negative effects of the social media world in attacking hunters/hunting. Look at the damage the cancel culture has had in attacking what they view as wrong. If this were given credibility by government bans, nothing the left hates will be safe from attack. Hunting is pretty high on most of their lists. Attacking the individuals that hunt is, and has been, part of their methodology and would get worse.

 

[Stephen Ausband]

Yes, definitely. In fact, I am going back in May, and I told the outfitter that I was not interested in bringing home any more trophies. I want to hunt an old buffalo once again I've done it twice, in two different countries, and I have the trophies from those hunts, along with a few trophies from plains game. This time I plan to take nothing home but photos and memories. I think it might be different if I were planning my first African safari, but I'm not sure. The experience, including talks by the campfire, venison in camp from the hunts, getting to know the PH, the trackers, the cook, etc., seeing the country, watching the animals that you may not take, and hunting hard for the ones you want--memories of those things are the only trophies I want to bring home now. As I said, I might feel differently if it were going to be my first trip.

 

[Philip Glass]

Once you’ve experienced Africa most will understand the fact that many of us would go again and again even if we couldn’t import.

 

[Anthonyt42]

I have no issues with not bringing back the meat. Part of the value that is being provided to the local communities from hunts is the meat being distributed.

This was elephant meat being distributed. People came from miles to get some meat. At the end nothing was left.

Im not saying meat won't go to waste, but it's only part of the picture. I just struggle with this. Cost is a large factor. At same time I ask myself what's the reason I hunt? Meat, challenge, and being more apart of the natural world. Flying across globe to kill a elephant then giving all meat away is not any of those. If i answer trophy's or memories than i need to stop hunting. At the same time I contradict myself with my thoughts to answering no.
Going 3rd time to Africa this summer. It's an addicting place but i don't want to be just killing at the same cost without a trophy to bring home? Reduce the cost and i would probably go without trophys.

 

[Doug3006]

I would hate to see it go that way. I would continue to Safari even if all I brought home were pictures and memories. The experience is the real trophy. Putting a thumb in the eye of the antis would be another big plus.

 

[Art Lambart II]

Without question, I would. More people have seen the pictures of my hunt than will ever see my mounts. Rather than Taxidermy, I could have my hunt filmed.

 

[mark-hunter]

As this topic develops, so do the numbers.
Few days ago was:
77% would continue to hunt despite the ban
23% would not,

Poll status - today:
80% would
20% would not.

Why I go hunting in Africa, I cannot say for certain.
Trophy size, not important to me.
Much shooting, not important to me.
In fact, after I have already collected my must have animals, I am planning less and less shooting, and more and more quality time spending.
So, most probably, the answer why I go to Africa, (for hunt) is experience.
I would like to hunt in Africa as long as I can afford it, but in reality I have a vision for only few trophies to bring home. (and they are not even on cites list)

 

[ofbiro]

I live in a very small flat and the space for trophies is limited at the point that I present them to friends or friends of friends. I hunted twice in Africa: the first time in SAR, later on in Namibia. I imported one set of warthog tusks and one impala skin from South Africa and nothing from Namibia.
I wouldn't import any trophy more due, besides space, the outrageous prices charged by South African taxydemnists-vets-shipping agencies- customs a.s.o.

 

[mark-hunter]

@ofbiro
As a side note, since you mentioned:
The taxidermist logistic is the weakest point in safari business.
While hunter can really have accurate budget planning for air tickets, trophy fees, day rates, and admin costs (visa, rifle permits, vaccinations, etc) - generally having great service from all involved, and especially from outfitters, the taxidermy logistics with shipping is almost impossible to predict in advance. More over, getting local taxidermy price quotes, is hard. They do not reply to emails or reply on occasion, rarely they have costs listed on web sites, etc. (for me this part of cost planning was nightmare - finally ended up, with hope for pure luck, and waiting to get what I will get in final pricing)
Approximate cost of taxidermy and delivery time is estimate at best.

Another point for hunting without trophy export.

 

[Dragan N.]

Yes, indeed, regular folks from our neighbourhood.

By regular folks, you mean people from greenish colored countries on this link:

Average income around the world

A comparison of the average income per capita over 92 countries worldwide

www.worlddata.info

This mostly covers the members of this forum: americans, less europeans, few swedes, and couple of brits, other nations much less present. Ocasional Italian, russian, south american, spanish.

But Worlds public opinion and international voice is created on all 5 continents, check the red zones on that map.

An average african, will hardly afford 5 digit hunt. (how many Africans - especially native Africans do you know get to USA to hunt elk?) Same thing for most of Asia. Then you have a red zone of poverty and antihunting mentality India. (which is 20% of world popultion), and China another 20%, together they cover 40% of world population. etc.

In those countries will not be much understanding for the conservation financed by trophy hunt as we understand it, and by signing a trade export international ban on trophies, they would loose nothing in their communities.

Thats why I am saying that business model of safari industry will have to change and follow modern challanges. And make hunting accesable not only to worlds financial elite. Many peopple from all countries of the world travel as tourists. Not all can afford hunt.
On African ground to involve as much as possible of local populations, in programs such as campfire, employment etc... this we already know, things are in progress here.

Average income plays a role but it is not the only factor. If you look at a China vs. US comparison like here: https://www.theguardian.com/busines...takes-us-in-rankings-of-worlds-richest-people , in terms of gross numbers there are now more Chinese who have personal savings (or net worth????) in excess of 100,000 US than there are Americans. 99 million Americans have a net worth of at least a 100,000 US compared to 100 million Chinese. If you do not have a net worth of a 100,000 USD I doubt you'll be able to afford safari hunting- regardless of where you live. Just looking at this comparison international hunting would be accessible to 1/3rd of Americans and 1/10th of Chinese. In Africa at least I think about 70-80% of hunting clients are Americans. I would imagine the # of wealthy Chinese who go hunting internationally is a very tiny amount. Furthermore, many EU countries have income levels similar to America yet they account for a relatively small # of hunters.

 

[Hunt anything]

That’s a lot of figures, I started putting about 200$ a month in an Africa account when I graduated college, had a job that only paid about 20,000 a year. It took about 30 years but I made it to Africa in 2014. Just be disciplined and anyone can afford it.

 

[VertigoBE]

That’s a lot of figures, I started putting about 200$ a month in an Africa account when I graduated college, had a job that only paid about 20,000 a year. It took about 30 years but I made it to Africa in 2014. Just be disciplined and anyone can afford it.

Now that is discipline! Congratulations to you sir for achieving your goal over such a long timeframe! Well done!