Would you change your plans if you don’t like a outfitter website?

[Kevin Peacocke]

Hi Poco, if you are not happy for whatever the reason, don’t do it. Gut feel carries a lot of weight in my world, and an African safari is far too special to compromise upon.

 

[HankBuck]

This is called "put and take" and is done with regularity on some ranches. You need to be asking the right questions and the link below will get you started. Don't be afraid to ask direct questions (with kindness) of your outfitter and you should be getting direct answers as well. If you are not happy with how they conduct business, let them know in a nice way and move on.

You are looking for a "self-sustaining" herd of a given animal vs "put & take".

You should be happy with who you are going to hunt with and how it will be conducted. AH and it's members are here to help.

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/better-questions-to-ask-when-looking-for-a-hunt.23825/

BeeMaa, I “think” you got to the root of the OPs question and since many SA PH’s operate on fenced concessions that have “some” Put & Take (Not all of them) is there a way to be certain only “self sustaining” animals are going to be hunted?
I would think there are outfitters that openly share exactly how they maintain their concessions and references that could be checked to “verify” the operators claims….But I do Not know where or who to check with to be certain ? I was told that some operators will deny ever adding supplemental animals into their concessions - even though they do it anyway. Is there a way for the Hunter to be certain or at least reasonably sure?

 

[BeeMaa]

BeeMaa, I “think” you got to the root of the OPs question and since many SA PH’s operate on fenced concessions that have “some” Put & Take (Not all of them) is there a way to be certain only “self sustaining” animals are going to be hunted?
I would think there are outfitters that openly share exactly how they maintain their concessions and references that could be checked to “verify” the operators claims….But I do Not know where or who to check with to be certain ? I was told that some operators will deny ever adding supplemental animals into their concessions - even though they do it anyway. Is there a way for the Hunter to be certain or at least reasonably sure?

In SA...probably no way to be sure without having been there or having some type of insider knowledge.

That said, the only time I'd be really concerned is in two cases. 1. If you are looking for a speciality animal like a color phase blesbok, golden wildebeest..etc. 2. If you are looking for a specific TYPE of hunt like foot stalking for buffalo or eland. These could present "put & take" issues for farm hunting, but that's not always the case either. I'm sure there are other examples that other members will chime in with.

The other option would be to go to another camp (that does have a large herd of what you are looking at) for a day hunt that's driving distance to the camp you are staying at. My wife and I did this to hunt sable. We must have seen at least 10 sable that were well over 35" before we picked out the one I wanted. That place was know for their sable herd and I wouldn't be surprised if they were breeding them to be sold elsewhere. We were fortunate that our outfitter had quota at that lodge. Mine ended up at 39.5" and 38.5".

Put and take is going to happen and it's not likely to change in the near future for SA. The only way to get around it is to hunt a truly wild area with no fences. However this will also mean a lower success rate and most likely a higher cost of the safari.

It matters where you hunt, or at least it should. I'm not going to go on and on about ethics and what I believe. But I will say that hunters going to Africa should be experienced enough to make decisions on these things using their own set of morals and be able to sleep soundly at night. We hunted game farms and we knew that going in. I'm not ashamed of any of the hunting we did or how the game was taken. I'm sure my wife feels the same way, but she's not here right now for me to ask. We had a wonderful time and I'd do it all over again.

 

[HankBuck]

In SA...probably no way to be sure without having been there or having some type of insider knowledge.

That said, the only time I'd be really concerned is in two cases. 1. If you are looking for a speciality animal like a color phase blesbok, golden wildebeest..etc. 2. If you are looking for a specific TYPE of hunt like foot stalking for buffalo or eland. These could present "put & take" issues for farm hunting, but that's not always the case either. I'm sure there are other examples that other members will chime in with.

The other option would be to go to another camp (that does have a large herd of what you are looking at) for a day hunt that's driving distance to the camp you are staying at. My wife and I did this to hunt sable. We must have seen at least 10 sable that were well over 35" before we picked out the one I wanted. That place was know for their sable herd and I wouldn't be surprised if they were breeding them to be sold elsewhere. We were fortunate that our outfitter had quota at that lodge. Mine ended up at 39.5" and 38.5".
View attachment 587128

Put and take is going to happen and it's not likely to change in the near future for SA. The only way to get around it is to hunt a truly wild area with no fences. However this will also mean a lower success rate and most likely a higher cost of the safari.

It matters where you hunt, or at least it should. I'm not going to go on and on about ethics and what I believe. But I will say that hunters going to Africa should be experienced enough to make decisions on these things using their own set of morals and be able to sleep soundly at night. We hunted game farms and we knew that going in. I'm not ashamed of any of the hunting we did or how the game was taken. I'm sure my wife feels the same way, but she's not here right now for me to ask. We had a wonderful time and I'd do it all over again.

NICE SABLE

 

[fourfive8]

I’ll echo @Kevin Peacocke- use your gut. Plus it doesn’t sound like you really want a type of hunt that is “by catalog”. Outfitters and PHs learn all manner of marketing techniques based on selling to certain types of hunters who already have a list made up in their head who are themselves influenced by the peer pressure of the keeping up with the internet. All kinds of unknown side deals are constantly going on among and between outfitters, PHs and landowners- not unusual nor even unethical most of the time…. just not apparent.
Use your gut and maintain a clear vision of the type of hunt you want. Look forward to what Africa offers up whatever that may be. Maintaining that flexibility also takes a bunch of pressure off the outfitter/PH allowing for a much better experience for everyone.

 

[Dhutson]

Often really good PH's that have their own outfits are great hunters and not great website designers or marketers. They know hunting, what to hunt, how to do it, and where. Good websites are designed to put only the best for all to see. However, they don't tell the whole story.

The majority of fancy websites (and booths at the shows) that get your attention cost a lot of money to create and maintain and that all translates in a cost that must be passed on to you the client. A big reason hunts continue to get more expensive. Of course as has been suggested there are sites out there that because they aren't that good will turn you off.

The absolute best thing anyone can do is to ask others - not just one but many. Who did they go with and what were the PH's like? Are they there to provide you an experience of a lifetime or just doing a job to make money to pay for all the fancy sites.

Forums like this are probably one of the best ways to find what you are looking for. Remember, you can do a lot with editing and who knows when the pictures were taken or where.

Talking to people you trust is the best way to find what you are looking for without all the marketing hype.