Woodleigh - what's too fast?

[Pheroze]

I would bet the .410 would work. Do you already have the 400 H&H ordered?

I spoke to Swift tech support. The response was the .410 would work very well but pressures may be lower....not a bad thing! If they work out, the A-frame could very well be paired with the breakaway solid. Maybe, just maybe, one day, possibly, I will find out. Planning if half the fun, right?

 

[TOBY458]

I spoke to Swift tech support. The response was the .410 would work very well but pressures may be lower....not a bad thing! If they work out, the A-frame could very well be paired with the breakaway solid. Maybe, just maybe, one day, possibly, I will find out. Planning if half the fun, right?

May need a little more powder to get the desired velocity. But I think the Swift would be a great Buffalo bullet for you.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

My experience with the woodleigh is limited to the 35 cal 225grain PPSP. I push this bullet to 2,950 fps out of my 35 Whelan. This gives me over 4,300 fpe at the muzzle
At 100 yards the projectile is still traveling a woodleighs max impact velocity of 2,600 fps for over 3,600 fpe.
I shot a Hartman zebra with this load smashed both front legs and tore the inside to peices. He ran about 15 yards and fell over. The projectile is a bit out of shape but that's what happens when you hit a heap of big bones. Retained weight 176 grains.

 

[Dr Ray]

Thanks guys. I should have clarified why I am asking. My eventually-to-be 400 H&H can push a 400gr bullet just under 2400 fps. The 400 gr Woodleigh lists the "impact velocity" at 2200 fps. So, I am qustioning whether the first 40 yards or so before the velocity drops enough will result in bullet failure. I recalled reading somewhere that Holland and Holland expected the Woodleigh to be used

If you can get 2400!!
I suggest that the bullet will be fine. A 100 FPS difference is unlikely to have a dramatic effect.

 

[Ray B]

The Woodleigh chart shows the parameters of optimum velocity for bullets performance. I noted that the 350 gr .422 bullet designed for the 404J has 1800-2600 fps while the 347 gr .423 bullet for the 10.75x68mm bullet has 1800-2300. Fired from a 404J a 347-350 gr bullet could have a muzzle velocity of 2400 fps and with a BC of .29 it will have slowed to 2100 at 100 yards. 347 gr bullet would have it's impact velocity within the 1800-2300 range at all ranges past about 30 yards. So if someone is using a 404J for a combined hunt, using stiffly constructed bullets for DG, according the Woodleigh's info, the lighter constructed bullets should perform for plains game. Personally, considering the expense of the hunt, I wouldn't risk it, but according to the chart, the bullets are claimed to be within their performance parameters.

 

[elmerfudd555]

My experience with the woodleigh is limited to the 35 cal 225grain PPSP. I push this bullet to 2,950 fps out of my 35 Whelan. This gives me over 4,300 fpe at the muzzle
At 100 yards the projectile is still traveling a woodleighs max impact velocity of 2,600 fps for over 3,600 fpe.
I shot a Hartman zebra with this load smashed both front legs and tore the inside to peices. He ran about 15 yards and fell over. The projectile is a bit out of shape but that's what happens when you hit a heap of big bones. Retained weight 176 grains.View attachment 321650 View attachment 321651 View attachment 321652

What barrel length do you have on your Whelan? Ive never chonyd one past 2800fps with the 225s. Thats smoking!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

What barrel length do you have on your Whelan? Ive never chonyd one past 2800fps with the 225s. Thats smoking!

Elmerfudd555
I have a 25 inch MAB stainless barrel 1in 12twist.
I don't use the only standard loads of 4064 or 3031 and others..
The load for my 225gr accubond is straight out of nosler online reloading sight. It's 60.5gnof Varget, COAL 3.4 inches chronoed velocity of 2,850fps. This load generates over 4,000fpe.
Other loads I have tried are with hogdon cfe223 powder. This powder seems to give the Whelan a set of balls without straining it.
Speer list cfe223 with the 250gn Speer hotcore for up to close on 2,700fps their start load is around 58gn up to a max of 64gn. I worked up to the max load of this and got 2,700fps in my 25inch barrel.
I used the same load behind the 225gn woodleigh.
ALL LOADS PROVED SAFE IN MY RIFLE BUT SHOULD BE APPROACHED FROM MINIMUM SUGESTED LOADS.
As you can see Elmer these loads put the ol' Whelan into a different basket that even has the 338 WM sitting up an taking notice of the old 35.
Cheers mate Bob.

For some reason this powder

 

[elmerfudd555]

Ok that explains things! I dont own a Whelan, several friends do hence my knowledge of what they are getting. Im a huge 338-06 fan however so we are playing in the same space. Some of the recent powder intros - CFE223 as an example have absolutely upped the velocities attainable.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Ok that explains things! I dont own a Whelan, several friends do hence my knowledge of what they are getting. Im a huge 338-06 fan however so we are playing in the same space. Some of the recent powder intros - CFE223 as an example have absolutely upped the velocities attainable.

Elmer
I will have a look at load from a disc and see if we can work out something for that 338/06 0f yours. Maybe cfe223 might give it a lift.
What action are you using it on and what barrel length so I can work out parameters for you.
Cheers mate
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Ok that explains things! I dont own a Whelan, several friends do hence my knowledge of what they are getting. Im a huge 338-06 fan however so we are playing in the same space. Some of the recent powder intros - CFE223 as an example have absolutely upped the velocities attainable.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Elmer
Did some calculations for your 338/06 from load from a disc for you.
The following parameters were used
Max pressure 52,000 cup
COAL 3.340 inches
Barrel length 24 inches,
LOADS AS FOLLOWS ARE GIVEN AS ADVICE ONLY. LOADS ARE MAX AND SHOULD BE REDUCED BY 5 GRAINS AND WORK UP.
load 1
225 gn GGSP 55gn cfe223
for 2,600fps
Load 2
225 gn SST 55.3 gn cfe223, 2,520fps
Load 3
225gn swift Aframe 60gn H4350, 2550fps this load indicates a 3,000 cup lower pressure than cfe223
Load 4
Barnes 185gn ttsx
53-56gn cfe223 for a max velocity of 2,800fps.
Once again approach max load with caution any signs of pressure should stop there and reduce to safe working loads.
Hope this helps Elmer
Cheers mate
Bob

 

[TNDave]

Bob, thanks for sharing! I had a 35 Whelen built just this year and love it. It fast became my favorite deer rifle for hunting in heavy brush. Those appends are smoking fast. I’m going to be working up some good loads to potentially take mine over on my 2021 trip. I was actually fortunate enough to scarf up a bunch of North Forks just before they shut down in the US.

 

[elmerfudd555]

Thanks! Always looking for more data! Im actually getting 2920 fps out of the Barnes TTSX 210 with norma brass federal 210 gm primers and a slightly over book max charge of H414. I cant remember the charge weight and im away from my logs. I load the 185 TTSX to right at 3000 fps with 58.5 gr of Varget same brass and primer. I intentionally load the 250 gr Hornady round nose to right at 2500 which is a little under book max. My go to black bear load. Never loaded for the 225s. My rifle is a browning A bolt medallion re-barrel to 338-06 from 270. Light contour25” barrel. Lovely rifle and caliber. Served me well on several elk, bears and on plains game in SA and Zim. if I had to go with one bullet permanently for this rig it would be the 210 Barnes. Seems to fold game very much like my 375 H&H with 300 softs.

I burn a lot of cfe223 in my ARs. Super clean and no copper fouling. Worth playing with in the 338 platform

Thanks!
Cheers!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Bob, thanks for sharing! I had a 35 Whelen built just this year and love it. It fast became my favorite deer rifle for hunting in heavy brush. Those appends are smoking fast. I’m going to be working up some good loads to potentially take mine over on my 2021 trip. I was actually fortunate enough to scarf up a bunch of North Forks just before they shut down in the US.

TNDave
Took mine over in Sept-oct 2019.
Every thing hit with it stayed hit, nothing traveling more than 30 yards max. The 225 gn woodleigh and accubonds had more than enough power and penetration.
My black wildebeest fell to a single shot at around 170 yards. Thru both shoulders 20 yards run and nose dived.

Both 1 shot kills the Kudu was front on. The accubond traveling from the front to rear and was found in the ham. Over 5 and a half feet of penetration, range 120 yards plus

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Bob, thanks for sharing! I had a 35 Whelen built just this year and love it. It fast became my favorite deer rifle for hunting in heavy brush. Those appends are smoking fast. I’m going to be working up some good loads to potentially take mine over on my 2021 trip. I was actually fortunate enough to scarf up a bunch of North Forks just before they shut down in the US.

TNT Dave
Mate if you want some grey loads for your Whelan check out loads on the Speer reloading site. It lists the 250gn Speer hotcore @ 2,700fps for the Whelan.
Nosler lists the 225gn accubonds at 2,800fps with Varget 60.5 grains.
My Whelan is a Stevens 200 rebarreled to 35 Whelan with a 25inch stainless barrel 1in 12twist.
The hotcore clocks 2,72fps and the accubonds 2,850fps.
I loaded some 225grain woodleigh PPSN with cfe223 and got 2,950 fps. These loads put the old Whelan into the real world. Muzzle energies from 4,000 to 4300fpe.
This is without straining the cases. I loaded 1 case six times and now it's up to 8 reloads.
Your lucky in the USA being able to get hogdon cfe223, it's no longer imported into OZ. Lucky I stocked up with 20 bottles. Cfe223 with 225 and 250 grain bullets leaves all other powders standing still.
I worked up from 60 to 65 grains keeping a sharp eye out for any problems.
If you have Wayne blackells load from a disc or know someone who has check out the loads using cfe223. It is a bit faster than H4350 and a bit slower than Varget.
Good luck working up loads for your Whelan.
Cheers mate
Bob