Winchester M70 Alaskan, or M70 Safari Express for Crocodile Hunting.

[Bob Reed]

Hello,

If forced to choose either a Winchester Model 70 Alaskan in .375 H&H Magnum, or a Model 70 Safari Express in .375 H&H Magnum for use on Crocodile - which one would you choose? The rifle will get a GPO 1-8x24i Scope w/German Nr. 4 Reticle. (FWIW: I have handled both rifles in question, but it was at different times, a long time ago).

And, to make the thread interesting & educational for any future Crocodile Hunters, please also state 'your' choice of rifle (make, model & caliber) 'specifically' for Crocodile Hunting.

BTW: I have limited myself to the above-mentioned Winchester's simply because, I like M70s and I am working on my Model 70 collection, and I want a .375 H&H Magnum.

Thanks for your replies,

Bob Reed

 

[Muskox]

Never handled the Alaskan. Love me some Safari Express. Had a Puerto Gueso m70 in 375 and it was amazing.

The Alaskan has very different egos.

 

[BJH65]

It’s six of one, half dozen of another really. Both will do a fine job, whatever styling appeals to you the most. I like the New Haven made Safari Express rifles personally.

 

[Muskox]

It’s six of one, half dozen of another really. Both will do a fine job, whatever styling appeals to you the most. I like the New Haven made Safari Express rifles personally.

I ABSOLUTELY HATE THE NEW HAVEN RIFLES.

They are trash. I was on active duty for 20 years. I came back from Iraq in 1999 and while I was on deployment I ordered a M70 Supergrade in 300 Winchester with the David Miller designed stock. Was absolutely a shit show. Looked like it was inletted with a chainsaw with 3 teeth.

Never had another one that wasn't a piece of trash. People get sentimental about New Haven, but the best days of Winchester are now.

 

[BJH65]

I ABSOLUTELY HATE THE NEW HAVEN RIFLES.

They are trash. I was on active duty for 20 years. I came back from Iraq in 1999 and while I was on deployment I ordered a M70 Supergrade in 300 Winchester with the David Miller designed stock. Was absolutely a shit show. Looked like it was inletted with a chainsaw with 3 teeth.

Never had another one that wasn't a piece of trash. People get sentimental about New Haven, but the best days of Winchester are now.

My experience differs…have owned four New Haven M70’s, all manufactured mid to late 90’s, stainless Fwt All Terain 300 Win mag and stainless 375 H&H Classic which I still own and Safari Express 416 Rem Mag and 458 Win Mag. All were very accurate and performed great in Alaska and Africa.

 

[Cheesehead]

I prefer the safari express just for the barrel band sling stud. I believe the new safari express rifles have a slightly shorter barrel than the Alaskans which could be handier.

 

[pilar]

It probably won’t make much difference, the Alaskan you can use a bipod Easyer

 

[LimbNoMo]

Whichever one you can find at the time.

I prefer the Alaskan, but if you ever sell it a Safari will hold its value much better.

 

[revturbo9967]

Killed a croc with the m70 express. I’m bias

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Haven't hunted a croc yet and haven't handled the Alaskan model. But at this point I'm not sure how many animals I've taken with my Safari Express, but I would hunt croc with it, great accurate rifle. I've also not decided whether or not one of my sons gets the rifle when I die or if I shall be buried with it.

Either way I'm sure you can't go wrong.

 

[Bob Reed]

Thanks for all the replies,

Being able to easily attach a bipod is a plus for the Alaskan and considering the exact shot placement that's needed on Crocodiles, I had considered it. The Alaskan's 25"-inch barrel should also offer a bit better velocity vs. the Safari's 24"-inch barrel, but is it even enough to matter with the .375 H&H Magnum cartridge...(?)

Ever since I started thinking about these 2 rifles, I have been leaning towards the Safari Express, and I still am.

Phil, I fully understand being buried with it. My daughter wants to send me off with a Browning Hi-Power in my box, even though it'd be a Sin since FN ended Hi-Power production after 2017 (which was a Sin). She say's I just wouldn't look right laying there without a Hi-Power! I told her she could always remove it before they closed the lid... And my son wants to have me taxidermized (full body), so I'll always be with him. I guess I did something right, to be so highly thought of after all these years.

Thanks again for all the replies,

 

[AZDAVE]

Either will work fine. I like the look of the Safari model better.

 

[Bush Buck]

Hello,

If forced to choose either a Winchester Model 70 Alaskan in .375 H&H Magnum, or a Model 70 Safari Express in .375 H&H Magnum for use on Crocodile - which one would you choose? The rifle will get a GPO 1-8x24i Scope w/German Nr. 4 Reticle. (FWIW: I have handled both rifles in question, but it was at different times, a long time ago).

And, to make the thread interesting & educational for any future Crocodile Hunters, please also state 'your' choice of rifle (make, model & caliber) 'specifically' for Crocodile Hunting.

BTW: I have limited myself to the above-mentioned Winchester's simply because, I like M70s and I am working on my Model 70 collection, and I want a .375 H&H Magnum.

Thanks for your replies,

Bob Reed

I have handled both rifles and fired an Alaskan several times. One big difference in these rifles is the weight. The Alaskan is at least a pound lighter (regardless of the Winchester website info). Mine was about 7.8 pounds as compared to 9 pounds for the Safari Express. That's a big difference and you will feel it when you shoot the rifle.
The Alaskan looks and handles like a 338 Win Mag sporter. The Safari looks and handles like a big bore safari rifle.

If I wanted precise shot placement in Africa I'd practice with Quad sticks and bring them along if my PH didn't have them.
I find a barrel band sling mount is much less likely to get in the way when using sticks.

Both are good rifles - but they are not similar.

Bush Buck

 

[Bob Reed]

Thanks, Bush Buck,

The Alaskan handling like a .338 WM Sporter is about how I remember it, and truthfully, I'd actually have a hard time buying an M70 Alaskan that wasn't chambered for .338 WM, simply for historical reasons. I also assumed the listed weight was either heavy for the Alaskan, or lite for the Safari - thanks for clearing that up.

Sticks, or a rest of some kind, is my preferred way of taking such shots. I have LR Rifles with bipods on them, but I only use them on the bench because, I just never liked firing from the prone position - plus, getting up off the ground at this point in time takes some serious effort.

Well, since I'll always really want BOTH rifles for our M70 collection, having a Safari chambered for .375 H&H Magnum and an M70 Alaskan in .338 WM only seems fitting.

Thanks again for all the replies, and please, share what your idea is of the 'perfect' Crocodile rifle & caliber.

 

[Muskox]

Accurate croc caliber, would be the most accurate rifle I could get and I would have every single distance known. A 6mm BR in a 15 pound match rifle would be a better option than any 375.

 

[colorado]

Just a knife…

 

[Certus]

Just a knife ...

View attachment 668107

RIP Burt.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

The Wincester Model 70 Safari Express gets my vote.

I’ve been successfully using a fair variety of rifles against crocodiles for years. But I was the most pleased with a Parker Hale .375 Holland & Holland Magnum which was built on a Spanish Santa Barbara Mauser Model 98 action. Unfortunately, it’s no longer manufactured.

Amongst currently manufactured rifles for use against crocodiles, my choice would have to go to the Mauser Model 98 Magnum Diplomat in .375 Holland & Holland Magnum.

On a related subject, I can wholeheartedly relate to your sentiment about the .338 Winchester Magnum being an “Alaskan” caliber. In 1973, when I first visited Alaska… the .338 Winchester Magnum was almost universally accepted as the standard bear caliber there. Everybody was using the 300Gr Winchester Power Point factory load. There were a few varieties of .338 Winchester Magnum rifles being used in Alaska, back in those days. The old hands almost exclusively preferred pre ‘64 Winchester Model 70s (with the bluing on the barrels invariably completely worn off and the stocks split but held together by car bolts & wood glue). But the most beautiful .338 Winchester Magnum which I ever laid eyes on in Alaska, was a custom piece built by Griffin & Howe on a Remington Springfield Model 1903A3 action with a Douglas Premium barrel & a French walnut stock. Perfect bear medicine. Around the late 1980s, the .375 Holland & Holland Magnum began to replace the .338 Winchester Magnum as the Alaskan caliber of choice. Those beastly looking (but practical in Alaskan context) synthetic stocks & stainless steel barrels began to catch on in the 1990s.

 

[3nyala]

Try them prone with full patch loads and see which fits you better. 375 off the sticks is not bad but prone its no joke.

 

[Bob Reed]

Hello, Hunter-Habib, - Thanks a Million for your reply & photos.

The magnificent Mauser Model 98 Magnum Diplomat sure is a beautiful rifle and it's one I'd sure love to own. Not picking on their offerings, but I'm surprised the Mauser 98 Standard Diplomat isn't offered in 6,5x55 and 7x64 as well.

It's too bad that Florida has such absurd Alligator Hunting Laws that a man has to travel halfway around the globe in order to "legally" shoot one that isn't on a fishing line. I know where some big Gators sun themselves, and I've located one that's really mean looking, he has to be a Crocodile that's moved north from the Everglades - he's colored like a Crocodile and has horns and a snout like a Crocodile (I've been around Gators for over 60 years, and this one isn't a regular Alligator). There's another one around here that stretches all the way across a 2-lane road when he crosses it, but we can't follow him from there because it's private land on both sides.

Thanks again, Hunter-Habib, - Good Luck and I wish you the best, Sir.