Winchester 70 in .375 H&H - Are all of the Control Feed?

[Hunter-Habib]

Not necessarily.
The early 64-67 models had some issues, but beginning in '68 and going forward improvements were made to make them a usually very good rifle. Look for a G prefix in the SN.
Now of course if CRF is the only method acceptable, then no amount of persuasion will change ones mind.
I will say this. I have two 1971 M70's, both PF of course and both are fine shooters. One, a .308 shoots like a match rifle and the other a .270 Win that will feed empty cases from the magazine and is smoother than a prom queens' thighs!
I have CRF rifles that wont feed empty cases from the mag, check yours.
I also have a mid 80's XTR in .300 Hollands and it too is a great shooter with outstanding wood.

Oh, you're very right, Sestoppelman. I've only seen feeding issues on the .375 Holland & Holland Magnum post '64 Winchester Model 70 rifles. This was in Kenya, 1974. Mr. Cheffings (my white hunter) used to absolutely hate them.

 

[sestoppelman]

Must have been Joe Cheffings? Used to be partnered with Finn Aagaard?

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Must have been Joe Cheffings? Used to be partnered with Finn Aagaard?

Do you know him ? Is he still alive ? His backup rifle of choice was a BSA Majestic in .458 Winchester Magnum with the muzzle brake cut off. I can't say if he knew Finn Aagaard or not. I myself first got to know about Mr. Aagaard in 1987.

 

[sestoppelman]

Do you know him ? Is he still alive ? His backup rifle of choice was a BSA Majestic in .458 Winchester Magnum with the muzzle brake cut off. I can't say if he knew Finn Aagaard or not. I myself first got to know about Mr. Aagaard in 1987.

No I didnt know either of them, but read Aagaards books and stories. Finn wrote about Joe Cheffings a lot, they were partners for a time anyway.

 

[BeeMaa]

You could always get a Montana Rifle Company in 375 HH. They're all CRF.

MRC is a good option along with the Kimber Talkeetna & Caprivi, Ruger M77 Mk 2 & Hawkeye, BRNO 602, CZ550 and Dakota 76. Also the Ruger M77 Mk I and Sako rifles are a modified CRF/PF design. There are a few others out there that I failed to mention, but these are most of the "production" CRF rifles out there.

Some people are staunch supporters of the CRF design and I believe there is nothing wrong with that. However I would say that it has been my experience that most failures or any rifle (PF or CRF) can be traced back to the one behind the trigger. If you are a traveling client hunter in search of DG, you need to make sure your rifle is reliable and that you are well versed in its operation. CRF is not a prerequisite for hunting DG or even being a PH on a DG hunt. There are even PH's on this site who use a PF rifle backing up clients on DG hunts. Is it the norm? Probably not, but it goes to prove the point that as long as the rifle is reliable and the person operating it capable...they can work together.

 

[mark-hunter]

An advertising in 64/65, on new type of rifle. Push feed.

I think that winchester never stopped production of 375, so models after 64 are PF.
Until they restarted classic CRF m70.

At the time, for advertising they have chosen David Ommanney, PH to be their front man.
Winchester slogan for marketing campaign was: David Ommanney - our man in Africa.

David Ommanney Professional Hunter

David Ommanney, Professional Hunter David Ommanney, Professional Hunter, 1957 David Ommanney was born in Jalgaon in India in 1931, his father was a British Police officer who did settle his family in Nanyuki in Kenya. When young Dave had been close to the famous maneating Tiger Hunter Jim...

www.africahunting.com

Below photo: Cover on guns magazine, 1965
THE COVER
Fine trophy lion was taken near Lokisale, Tanganyika, with one shot.
Dave Ommanney, Winchester's "Man in Africa" and a
white hunter for Ker, Downey and Selby Ltd., used a new Model 70 in .458 with
the 510 grain soft point bullet.

Ommanney was a winner of the highly esteemed
Shaw & Hunter Award which is given annually to the white hunter whose client
brings in the best trophy of the year

 

[Hunter-Habib]

An advertising in 64/65, on new type of rifle. Push feed.

I think that winchester never stopped production of 375, so models after 64 are PF.
Until they restarted classic CRF m70.

At the time, for advertising they have chosen David Ommanney, PH to be their front man.
Winchester slogan for marketing campaign was: David Ommanney - our man in Africa.

David Ommanney Professional Hunter

David Ommanney, Professional Hunter David Ommanney, Professional Hunter, 1957 David Ommanney was born in Jalgaon in India in 1931, his father was a British Police officer who did settle his family in Nanyuki in Kenya. When young Dave had been close to the famous maneating Tiger Hunter Jim...

www.africahunting.com

Below photo: Cover on guns magazine, 1965
THE COVER
Fine trophy lion was taken near Lokisale, Tanganyika, with one shot.
Dave Ommanney, Winchester's "Man in Africa" and a
white hunter for Ker, Downey and Selby Ltd., used a new Model 70 in .458 with
the 510 grain soft point bullet.

Ommanney was a winner of the highly esteemed
Shaw & Hunter Award which is given annually to the white hunter whose client
brings in the best trophy of the year

View attachment 477344

What's funny is the firearms that "Winchester's man in Africa" preferred to use when he WASN'T being paid to promote them and when his life ACTUALLY depended on them.

A John Rigby & Co. Rising Bite in .470 Nitro Express (as his backup rifle) and four PRE '64 Winchester Model 70 rifles (all CRF). And also a W.W. Greener Empire in 12 Gauge 3 " Magnum.

Yes, Mark. Never believe what a man's being paid to tell you.

 

[mark-hunter]

Yes, Mark. Never believe what a man's being paid to tell you.

I would immediately accept an offer to hunt in Africa, if reputable fire arm company would offer me to hunt with their new line of rifles, on their expense!
Or ammunition company offering me to use their ammunition, in my rifles, by covering costs of my safari.

I wouldn't have any problem with that!

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I would immediately accept an offer to hunt in Africa, if reputable fire arm company would offer me to hunt with their new line of rifles, on their expense!
Or ammunition company offering me to use their ammunition, in my rifles, by covering costs of my safari.

I wouldn't have any problem with that!

Same here. Under the circumstances, I'd promote Remington Model 700s and Weatherby MK. Vs as DG rifles if they wanted me to !

I'd down all the game with a .375 H&H Magnum BRNO ZKK602 and then pose for the trophy pictures with my sponsor company's rifles in my hands.

 

[Jaegger]

Or join CZ BRNO 602 family … I did this past April, pretty cool .375 H&H & now on the search for .416 & .458 to round out the rifle family!

 

[BeeMaa]

I would immediately accept an offer to hunt in Africa, if reputable fire arm company would offer me to hunt with their new line of rifles, on their expense!
Or ammunition company offering me to use their ammunition, in my rifles, by covering costs of my safari.

I wouldn't have any problem with that!

Accepting the safari is one thing. Endorsing a product (firearms or ammunition) is something completely different. And if the paid safari is contingent on MY endorsement...the product better be top notch or it will get a S*** review and I'll be on the hook for the safari.

 

[mark-hunter]

Or join CZ BRNO 602 family … I did this past April, pretty cool .375 H&H & now on the search for .416 & .458 to round out the rifle family!

We are still yet to find minor upgrades like safety and trigger, but even in original condition is very usable!

 

[fourfive8]

While some find the set trigger arrangement on some BRNO 602s acceptable and try to justify the backwards safety lever, both are silly if not completely unacceptable for DG use… 375 or larger. Sorry but a pull-to-shoot safety lever is not logical and most experienced shooters have only occasionally if at all used such a safety. I remember a few cheap/junky guns so designed from a long time ago.

Changing out the set trigger on those BRNOs so equipped isn’t too difficult. But, someone please explain the design theory behind the whole trigger mechanism being disconnected from the action! Rube Goldberg-ish, IMO.

Changing that backward safety lever to a logical, ergonomic and superior side swing striker block design, like the Win 70 style, is a different critter. Not easy, unless the gunsmith is familiar with that specific “transgender” operation. I changed out both the stupid set trigger and backward safety on my ZKK 375 HH after much tooth gnashing by both me and my gunsmith!
So Good luck

 

[mark-hunter]

Sorry but a pull-to-shoot safety lever is not logical and most experienced shooters have only occasionally if at all used such a safety.

My gunsmith reworked the safety to push-to-shoot (so acceptable), but I would like to find safety as the one in your photo, and change the trigger to something like timney. Checked with AHR recently and they are out of stock for both items.

 

[Killo]

Hello
Can someone tell me what model would this one be?

Thank you

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Not necessarily.
The early 64-67 models had some issues, but beginning in '68 and going forward improvements were made to make them a usually very good rifle. Look for a G prefix in the SN.
Now of course if CRF is the only method acceptable, then no amount of persuasion will change ones mind.
I will say this. I have two 1971 M70's, both PF of course and both are fine shooters. One, a .308 shoots like a match rifle and the other a .270 Win that will feed empty cases from the magazine and is smoother than a prom queens' thighs!
I have CRF rifles that wont feed empty cases from the mag, check yours.
I also have a mid 80's XTR in .300 Hollands and it too is a great shooter with outstanding wood.

In 1972 or '73 at the ripe old age of 18 I bought my first "real rifle." A Winchester M 70 in .30-06. Push feed, pressed checkering, the whole nine yards. At that time I wouldn't have known the difference between PF and CRF and since pretty much all rifles at that time had pressed checkering I didn't think too much about it. Later I would learn about the differences and wish I had a really nice rifle. The thing is, the rifle shoots. Accurate and reliable.. I took quite a few blacktail bucks and took it to Africa for plains game. I have never had a failure to feed or extract with it. I now have a collection of nice rifles and don't use my old Winchester much anymore, but you won't find me selling it either.

 

[sestoppelman]

Hello
Can someone tell me what model would this one be?

Thank you

Not for certain, you cant see whether it has a Mauser extractor, but as it appears to be SS it could be either. It has a custom front sight so possible re barrel.

 

[baxterb]

Hello
Can someone tell me what model would this one be?

Thank you

View attachment 631244

That looks like a G-Series lefty SS Model 70 with a shortened/custom barrel with a band.