Wild Lion Hunt

[375Fox]

I think you miss read what I was saying or maybe I should have been more precise in my verbiage since people get so up in arms about lion hunts in any forum thread.

As for decedent accommodation, I was referring to places like Tanzania & Namibia that have private/exclusive rights and are seen as “truly wild” that friends of mine with much deeper pockets hunt and the photos of the lodges are awe inspiring.

As far as the issues with D&Y in the Omay, I got caught in the middle of that as my July 2024 hunt was booked 1.5 years out, when a certain Zim outfitter posted on this forum that he had “acquired” the rights to the concession I was booked on and that anyone with hunts booked for Omay should contact him….

I thought that was very poor form on his part and caused unnecessary drama that hung a dark cloud of uncertainty over my hunt for months.

That played out in court and D&Y won the drawn out court battle and I hunted the Omay with them.

As far as other issues with Chewore… I don’t have any information or standing on that so will not comment, but it is Zimbabwe and the administration of hunting areas in Zim have been charged with various improprieties in the tenure process including the Omay issue.

Lion hunting is something out of reach for me at the moment(I need a new tractor more than a lion hunt) so granted I don’t research it heavily, but my entire reason for posting on this thread in the first place was to mention that there is a sub $50K option for exportable lion as the OP asked for which is factual and immediately get hit with anything but what the OP was asking for as counter examples.

Again I’m just posting info for the OP who asked for $50K and under hunt, then people start posting all sorts of info about hunts that are 2-3x the OP’s budget.

Honestly I’ll probably avoid lion hunting, seems like a sewing circle anytime someone posts about it, CBL brings up a shit storm of controversy and apparently any lion hunt under $100K is not a “Good lion”

No I don’t think I did. Your first post was correct suggesting that particular hunt. Your subsequent posts are continuing to make some incorrect assumptions. A person looking into a wild lion hunt should understand what goes into the pricing on a particular hunt.

 

[DLSJR]

Yes , I have gotten a Direct message from a company in Zambia that got a late quota past marketing window so have a
Good deal for this year . Waiting for him to confirm a few things. $ 60kish with 2/3rds weighted to trophy fee being newly opened with no hunting last 5 years .

I’d be EXTREMELY careful and do more than normal due diligence. I do know of a recently re-opened Kafue concession, but Johnny DuPlooy (one of the top lion hunters anywhere) is the main operator hunting it for the concession holder. Not anyone from another country. One thing is absolutely certain…. I would not book a Zambian hunt with a non-Zambian operator. Period.

One more thing; most Zambian concessions get one lion per year. Some may be getting two but I’ve not heard of that if it’s happening. AND, lions continent wide are in lower supply than almost any other major animal, with demand being greater than supply. So how likely do you think it is that you’re going to get some kind of deal on a quality lion hunt? Except for the occasional Black Rhino, most quality lion hunts are THE most expensive animal to hunt anywhere in Africa. A legitimate deal is pretty rare.

Heed the old saying - “ When something seems too good to be true, it usually is”. That applies here in spades.

 

[CBH Australia]

Sounds like a dream hunt but adds to the expense. I think everyone would prefer a truly wild lion over a CBL. I don’t think Vilages in the concession would concern me so much if the were mostly living the traditional way and not impacting the hunt and tourism etc.
even a hundred years ago notable big game hunters would have been in truly wild areas with villages in them and the villagers would probably didn’t see much of the white man and his lifestyle.

I hope your trusted PH can line something up as with a big budget on the line you want to be in company you know and trust.

 

[deewayne2003]

No I don’t think I did. Your first post was correct suggesting that particular hunt. Your subsequent posts are continuing to make some incorrect assumptions. A person looking into a wild lion hunt should understand what goes into the pricing on a particular hunt.

I never tried to discredit anything about the $2,900 day I was pointing out that comparing Zim CAMPFIRE hunt to Tanzania is comparing apples to bowling balls. Then you go on to bring up the Omay issue which directly affected me to discredit them, without mentioning that D&Y won that argument in court.

As I’ve said multiple times I’m no lion expert, but by all means feel free to post a hunt that meets the OP’s criteria…..

Excellent point on the collard lions though, nobody wants to shoot the next Cecil!

 

[Philip Glass]

I have my go to PH Zane Bronkhorst looking for a deal currently , but he is busy chasing wild things. I thought I could expand my search to the AH community to see if you have any leads on a quality area that may have need to fill a tag this year? I can usually travel last minute if any opportunity ( cancellation ) arises .

It would have to be exportable to the US . I’m wanting to be in the $50,000 daily and trophy fees range. Add on being bait animal’s export ext . Would like to use Zane as my PH if possible if he is available.

I’ve done a captive bred lion hunt and had a great experience. Just something about hearing a wild lion while your sitting around a fire that is extremely special. Even more so when you’re sitting in a leopard blind with nothing but a pillow for protection in your arms as they advance on your location! A story for another time !

Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions!

Scott

Scott,

This will be an amazing hunt when you get it put together. I have some advice for you. Do not take your former PH with you but go with the one who actually operates the wild lion hunts. I have never understood this.
It will be difficult but not impossible to get a wild lion hunt in your price range. Bait is the variable that can run the cost up. I suggest contacting @DALTON & YORK SAFARIS and see what might be available in the future.
Finally I would go to the SCI Convention to shop for such an important hunt as this.
Regards,
Philip

 

[Philip Glass]

In what world is any outfitter selling a lion for 900 a day? 2,900 a day sounds more likely.

That has been the daily rate in the Omay with D&Y. Fact!

 

[kpoynter]

I’d be EXTREMELY careful and do more than normal due diligence. I do know of a recently re-opened Kafue concession, but Johnny DuPlooy (one of the top lion hunters anywhere) is the main operator hunting it for the concession holder. Not anyone from another country. One thing is absolutely certain…. I would not book a Zambian hunt with a non-Zambian operator. Period.

One more thing; most Zambian concessions get one lion per year. Some may be getting two but I’ve not heard of that if it’s happening. AND, lions continent wide are in lower supply than almost any other major animal, with demand being greater than supply. So how likely do you think it is that you’re going to get some kind of deal on a quality lion hunt? Except for the occasional Black Rhino, most quality lion hunts are THE most expensive animal to hunt anywhere in Africa. A legitimate deal is pretty rare.

Heed the old saying - “ When something seems too good to be true, it usually is”. That applies here in spades.

You are exactly right….
Some of us suspect the is the new magic concession that just “popped up” he is being offered.the Duplooys turned the concession over due to some form of Shenanigans… not sure what kind but they have been around forever with a sterling reputation.
Haven’t heard of another. I was being generous in an earlier post about having two Lions potentially on quota (max). Then..,this pops up? For maybe their one Lion tag at half price with 6 months of season still left to sell it?
A Kafue Lion hunt, which was once one of the most renown area for Lion, and especially with big beautiful manes is typically hard to come by at full price.
Someone mentioned also rightfully getting all the paperwork for import which was a Damn good point.
Hey…deals do happen. There is a chance this is a great deal… I’d say 20% chance
There are several red flags here so 80% there’s some rather material issue that would lead to lower success and maybe no importantly (having sufficient backup for permit)

 

[spike.t]

BE exceptionally careful in Zambia.... There are only a couple of outfitters that you can truly trust.

For lion, I would go to Bubye in Zimbabwe as a good option. There are other places but be absolutely sure of who you dealing with....

I would say there are more than a couple.......

 

[DLSJR]

Kpoynter, you’re correct as I confirmed that Muchinga has nothing to do with this lion hunt. If Johnny was offering this hunt I’d book it without a 2nd thought. He’s not involved, so I’d be extremely cautious as this hunt sounds way too similar to a different Zambian lion hunt that never was delivered to a different hunter a couple years ago. It went sideways, PH and block holder were pointing fingers at each other and the client got royally crewed. To date, that cluster F*ck is still being debated.

 

[kpoynter]

Kpoynter, you’re correct as I confirmed that Muchinga has nothing to do with this lion hunt. If Johnny was offering this hunt I’d book it without a 2nd thought. He’s not involved, so I’d be extremely cautious as this hunt sounds way too similar to a different Zambian lion hunt that never was delivered to a different hunter a couple years ago. It went sideways, PH and block holder were pointing fingers at each other and the client got royally crewed. To date, that cluster F*ck is still being debated.

Yes sir… I am indeed VERY familiar with that
Lots of good honest advice and folks here on AH. Lots of experience and knowledge

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

The hunt would be with a sponsor here Kemp African Safaris. He did not name the concession although said it boarders Kafue National Park . I don’t expect a response from him until tomorrow since it’s late there now.

Caveat Emptor for sure . That’s a great reason to be a member of AH lots of experienced individuals to help you out along the way !

I’d be VERY cautious.

We’re barely into the Safari Season this year. So “past the marketing block” and “late quota” don’t really apply. Late quota normally refers to additional quota given right at the end of the season because of environmental condition (ir Zim & Namibia last year with the drought. Many African countries don’t give outfitters their actual quota numbers until right before the season starts. The outfitters are booking based on past quota numbers, with the assumption of it being the same/close to and give themselves a little wiggle room. Any decent outfitter has a list of past clients or customers they can message about a quota increase, or will offer it to hunters already booked.

Secondly; I echo the sentiments of others about being cautious booking with a South African Outfitters in another country. You have multiple Zambian Outfitters on AH like @spike.t , surely one would’ve heard about this “late quota”.

Thirdly; if it’s a new area that’s been recently opened, they’re likely going to lack the data USFWS requires to approve an import permit. Look at Mozambique, they’re only approving Lions from Niassa right now. The outfitter I think stands the best chance at getting a Lion approved in Mozambique outside Niassa is Mark Haldane, but he has how many years of Lion data/research during their non hunting period to back it up?

I know of a cancellation Wild Lion in Tanzania with a well known Tanzanian PH in an established areas (that has a substantial deposit down). This was 2 weeks ago, it could very well be sold by now.

I suspect in August/September we’ll start seeing the typical late season cancellations/additional quota from outfitters who own their concession areas. Look at Zim and Namibia the hardest.

 

[Rockwall205]

I’d be VERY cautious.

We’re barely into the Safari Season this year. So “past the marketing block” and “late quota” don’t really apply. Late quota normally refers to additional quota given right at the end of the season because of environmental condition (ir Zim & Namibia last year with the drought. Many African countries don’t give outfitters their actual quota numbers until right before the season starts. The outfitters are booking based on past quota numbers, with the assumption of it being the same/close to and give themselves a little wiggle room. Any decent outfitter has a list of past clients or customers they can message about a quota increase, or will offer it to hunters already booked.

Secondly; I echo the sentiments of others about being cautious booking with a South African Outfitters in another country. You have multiple Zambian Outfitters on AH like @spike.t , surely one would’ve heard about this “late quota”.

Thirdly; if it’s a new area that’s been recently opened, they’re likely going to lack the data USFWS requires to approve an import permit. Look at Mozambique, they’re only approving Lions from Niassa right now. The outfitter I think stands the best chance at getting a Lion approved in Mozambique outside Niassa is Mark Haldane, but he has how many years of Lion data/research during their non hunting period to back it up?

I know of a cancellation Wild Lion in Tanzania with a well known Tanzanian PH in an established areas (that has a substantial deposit down). This was 2 weeks ago, it could very well be sold by now.

I suspect in August/September we’ll start seeing the typical late season cancellations/additional quota from outfitters who own their concession areas. Look at Zim and Namibia the hardest.

I spoke with Dawie earlier today he explained what is happening and showed me the concession quota paperwork signed of by Zambia Parks and Wildlife as well as I have communicated with Ernest Dyson earlier today he said that he is good friends with the DuPlooy’s and was going to partner with John in this area , but that
Thormahlen & Cochran and JVC Safaris have control of the concession and they backed out . He has brought in Dawie Kemp to help . They have excellent reputations in the industry and Ernest said that Dawie is a good and honest operator and would not mislead me.

I don’t have a clue about Zambia and I do know Africa and there never seems to be much stability for long most places. I like the fact that I can hunt a lion in Zambia for $24,950 ! Most of the already discounted expense is weighted to the $40,000 trophy fee. If I’m unsuccessful I am out the daily plus bait , but still was in the bush for 21 Days in a new country.

Now the biggest question might be import to the US . I plan on talking to Conservation Force tomorrow.

 

[Rockwall205]

 

[DALTON & YORK SAFARIS]

You’re making a lot of incorrect assumptions to discredit $2900 a day. The best lion areas go for a lot. You are correct it is partially based on the level of wilderness. The last Bubye Valley price list I saw had lion at $3000/day and a $40k TF. A recent email offer I had for Save Valley was $2500/day with a $30k TF. A price list I have for a different community area in Zambezi valley has lion at $2000/day and $25k TF. I don’t know of any operation in Zimbabwe that sells hunts with decadent accommodations. They have the same standard of camps I see from D&Y. I’d assume a lot of D&Y’s pricing on the Omay has to do more with building a client base for a young outfitter than being representative of hunts in Zimbabwe. They’ve done a great job marketing and building a name but it wasn’t that long ago they had a major issue with hunting rights in the omay and now appears problem in Chewore. Stable names have the ability to charge more for hunts as well.

Good morning 375fox I see you bring the issue of omay quite frequently. I am not sure of your full name and you have probably never hunted with us as you have very little knowledge of how things transpired . Unfortunately the leasing of these areas is a lot more complex than one might think. The omay is in hand until 2028 , chewore unfortunately through the current lease holder who is a foreign investor which we have the hunting rights with is wanting to change the chewore south into a photographic area which is to his discretion. We have secured the hunting rights to Nyakasanga and this has compensated for the loss of the quota from chewore . Anyone who has hunted with us will know that we will always make the hunt happen even if it comes to us having to sacrifice our own funds to match prices as quoted . Again unfortunately there are more than just us who have had concessions being lost to bigger fish . This is a constant battle which is sad but the way it goes. So please in future if you are going to call on our reliability or consistency in our areas use knowledgeable resources and not hear say .

On the presumption of the pricing on a lion hunt . Our prices are adjudicated according the chances of success and area . The omay has preduced great lions for the last 3 years , we don’t have the populations of lion like bvc, save , Matetsi or nyakasanga hence why they charge at a premium. Omay is an area of incredible opportunity to shoot the big 6 in one place and gives you a chance at a great lion with a lot of hard work and perseverance it is very possible .

Sorry for the long msg but just wanted to clear up some of the mentions in this thread before there are assumptions of our operations

Thank you
Dalton

 

[Scott CWO]

I spoke with Dawie earlier today he explained what is happening and showed me the concession quota paperwork signed of by Zambia Parks and Wildlife as well as I have communicated with Ernest Dyson earlier today he said that he is good friends with the DuPlooy’s and was going to partner with John in this area , but that
Thormahlen & Cochran and JVC Safaris have control of the concession and they backed out . He has brought in Dawie Kemp to help . They have excellent reputations in the industry and Ernest said that Dawie is a good and honest operator and would not mislead me.

I don’t have a clue about Zambia and I do know Africa and there never seems to be much stability for long most places. I like the fact that I can hunt a lion in Zambia for $24,950 ! Most of the already discounted expense is weighted to the $40,000 trophy fee. If I’m unsuccessful I am out the daily plus bait , but still was in the bush for 21 Days in a new country.

Now the biggest question might be import to the US . I plan on talking to Conservation Force tomorrow.

Yes, speak with CF. I have heard from another reliable operator that all Zambian lions will all be approved for import but not sure of how that works with the "approval on a case by case basis" with USFWS. I have heard that all lions from the Niassa Reserve in Moz will be approved, which kind of also conflicts with the "case by case" information.

As for Nkala, it is a small area compared to most of the other areas bordering KNP and I have heard that there are a lot of encroachment issues with human settlements occurring on the east side of KNP so be careful and ask lots of questions. I think I would also ask Thormahlen & Cochran why they backed out? I received an email from them a while ago when they secured the area. Curious why they gave it up?

If it checks out with CF, you might have a heck of a good deal on your lap if you go forward knowing that it is a smaller area and you might be experiencing people in the area with the poaching that comes with that problem. You may or may not get a lion, as you know. but it might be worth the risk.

 

[kpoynter]

Good morning 375fox I see you bring the issue of omay quite frequently. I am not sure of your full name and you have probably never hunted with us as you have very little knowledge of how things transpired . Unfortunately the leasing of these areas is a lot more complex than one might think. The omay is in hand until 2028 , chewore unfortunately through the current lease holder who is a foreign investor which we have the hunting rights with is wanting to change the chewore south into a photographic area which is to his discretion. We have secured the hunting rights to Nyakasanga and this has compensated for the loss of the quota from chewore . Anyone who has hunted with us will know that we will always make the hunt happen even if it comes to us having to sacrifice our own funds to match prices as quoted . Again unfortunately there are more than just us who have had concessions being lost to bigger fish . This is a constant battle which is sad but the way it goes. So please in future if you are going to call on our reliability or consistency in our areas use knowledgeable resources and not hear say .

On the presumption of the pricing on a lion hunt . Our prices are adjudicated according the chances of success and area . The omay has preduced great lions for the last 3 years , we don’t have the populations of lion like bvc, save , Matetsi or nyakasanga hence why they charge at a premium. Omay is an area of incredible opportunity to shoot the big 6 in one place and gives you a chance at a great lion with a lot of hard work and perseverance it is very possible .

Sorry for the long msg but just wanted to clear up some of the mentions in this thread before there are assumptions of our operations

Thank you
Dalton

Thanks for the response,
Not sure if you read what precipitated the inclusion of D&Y, so this sort of “buries the lead”.
You all have done a great job the last several years and established a very good reputation.
The point, however, was raised (and then doubled down on as “FACT”) that D&Y sells Lion hunts at $900 a day. Most or all of us knew this was in reference to the Omay…
Is it true?
I would expect it to be less than say your newly acquired area of Nyakasanga and certainly other areas mentioned.
What is your standard pricing in the Omay? You may find some very interested folks indeed.
Also, what is the annual quota out of curiosity there (or perhaps how many do you sell or target)?

 

[DALTON & YORK SAFARIS]

Thanks for the response,
Not sure if you read what precipitated the inclusion of D&Y, so this sort of “buries the lead”.
You all have done a great job the last several years and established a very good reputation.
The point, however, was raised (and then doubled down on as “FACT”) that D&Y sells Lion hunts at $900 a day. Most or all of us knew this was in reference to the Omay…
Is it true?
I would expect it to be less than say your newly acquired area of Nyakasanga and certainly other areas mentioned.
What is your standard pricing in the Omay? You may find some very interested folks indeed.
Also, what is the annual quota out of curiosity there (or perhaps how many do you sell or target)?

Our standard cost for a lion hunt in the omay is $1250/day and nyakasanga is $1950/day.

 

[Rockwall205]

Yes, speak with CF. I have heard from another reliable operator that all Zambian lions will all be approved for import but not sure of how that works with the "approval on a case by case basis" with USFWS. I have heard that all lions from the Niassa Reserve in Moz will be approved, which kind of also conflicts with the "case by case" information.

As for Nkala, it is a small area compared to most of the other areas bordering KNP and I have heard that there are a lot of encroachment issues with human settlements occurring on the east side of KNP so be careful and ask lots of questions. I think I would also ask Thormahlen & Cochran why they backed out? I received an email from them a while ago when they secured the area. Curious why they gave it up?

If it checks out with CF, you might have a heck of a good deal on your lap if you go forward knowing that it is a smaller area and you might be experiencing people in the area with the poaching that comes with that problem. You may or may not get a lion, as you know. but it might be worth the risk.

Sorry I reread my post a bit confusing, Thromahlen and Cochran acquired the concession so Johnny and Earnest backed out but will run the hunts they already have booked there.

 

[375Fox]

Good morning 375fox I see you bring the issue of omay quite frequently. I am not sure of your full name and you have probably never hunted with us as you have very little knowledge of how things transpired . Unfortunately the leasing of these areas is a lot more complex than one might think. The omay is in hand until 2028 , chewore unfortunately through the current lease holder who is a foreign investor which we have the hunting rights with is wanting to change the chewore south into a photographic area which is to his discretion. We have secured the hunting rights to Nyakasanga and this has compensated for the loss of the quota from chewore . Anyone who has hunted with us will know that we will always make the hunt happen even if it comes to us having to sacrifice our own funds to match prices as quoted . Again unfortunately there are more than just us who have had concessions being lost to bigger fish . This is a constant battle which is sad but the way it goes. So please in future if you are going to call on our reliability or consistency in our areas use knowledgeable resources and not hear say .

On the presumption of the pricing on a lion hunt . Our prices are adjudicated according the chances of success and area . The omay has preduced great lions for the last 3 years , we don’t have the populations of lion like bvc, save , Matetsi or nyakasanga hence why they charge at a premium. Omay is an area of incredible opportunity to shoot the big 6 in one place and gives you a chance at a great lion with a lot of hard work and perseverance it is very possible .

Sorry for the long msg but just wanted to clear up some of the mentions in this thread before there are assumptions of our operations

Thank you
Dalton

This would be the first time I’ve brought up the issue in Omay. I do advise hunters to confirm how long an outfitter holds the rights to the concession, so there are no surprises, regardless which outfitter. I have frequently said that you are a newer outfitter and holding concession areas carries a lot of risk. That’s not hearsay. I don’t believe I wrote anything false in my replies, but you’re welcome to correct me if you see it. You are correct that I am not one of your clients.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

Yes, speak with CF. I have heard from another reliable operator that all Zambian lions will all be approved for import but not sure of how that works with the "approval on a case by case basis" with USFWS. I have heard that all lions from the Niassa Reserve in Moz will be approved, which kind of also conflicts with the "case by case" information.

As for Nkala, it is a small area compared to most of the other areas bordering KNP and I have heard that there are a lot of encroachment issues with human settlements occurring on the east side of KNP so be careful and ask lots of questions. I think I would also ask Thormahlen & Cochran why they backed out? I received an email from them a while ago when they secured the area. Curious why they gave it up?

If it checks out with CF, you might have a heck of a good deal on your lap if you go forward knowing that it is a smaller area and you might be experiencing people in the area with the poaching that comes with that problem. You may or may not get a lion, as you know. but it might be worth the risk.

Scott,
I think the comment about Niassa and all lions being approved from there by USFWS has to do with all the data and research each of the concession holders in Niassa have. Lots of outfitters offer hunts there but they can borrow/lean on the concession holder and their data.

I haven't heard the same thing about Zambia and all lions being approved. I've been told that Zambia offers one of the best chances at a Lion being approved. I think the grey area is anytime you add in a new area or a new quota, especially in a smaller area like you notate Nkala is. Like you recommend Conservation Force is likely the best person to ask and I sincerely wish @Rockwall205 gets a positive assurance from them to go with this amazingly affordable opportunity at a wild lion.