Why would an outfitters trophy fee list be higher?...

[MarkB]

So I am booked on my first South African Safari for June of 2024. I have heard nothing but great things about my outfitter/PH. Four of my close friends have hunted with him before and they consider him to be like family. My conversations with him have all been super pleasant. But...
He has forwarded me his Trophy fee list for this year and it is much higher than others I see on the net. For example he is $850 on an Impala as well as a Blesbok. He is $2400 on a Gemsbok. He is $3950 on a Kudu. Will where he hunts and/or quality of animals affect that price. One of my friends who has hunted with him 6 times has taken 30 animals with him. ALL 30 are SCI. Another friend has taken 12 animals with him and all but 1 are SCI. I am told that he is an amazing judge of trophies and will let you know immediately if it is an SCI animal.
Would this type of track record cause one to have higher trophy fees than someone else? Does it matter that he is the outfitter owner and the PH and only has 1 hunter in camp at a time for 10 days?

As many have stated, there are many reasons for different TF prices, agreeing with them and booking is up to hunter, before any deposit is sent. Your listed TF seam very high compared to other outfits posting, knowing you won the hunt somewhat explains your higher TF.

One thing I have learned is TF are fluid, before booking be honest with all prospective outfits. Most will drop in line with their competition to get your booking. As long as all comparable are the same. area size, type of hunt, daily rates, species size and other points already mentioned.

Your opportunity to "haggle" TF is BEFORE any deposit is sent and hunt booked. I also get outfitter to send TF list prior to booking, after booking I take with me so all are on kept "honest".

Good luck.

MB

 

[Ryan]

Yeah... Everybody is kind of acting like I got taken. But I won this hunt and get 3 free animals. So there will be no daily fees etc. Just the trophy fees. Being as the outfitter donated the hunt, I understand he needs to make up for some of that on the trophy fees. And I'm OK with that. Thanks for your input.

Auction hunts aren't bad but they do raise a red flag to many including myself. People often go into them with a lot of high hopes and emotion and not always a lot of research. It's no different than walking on a car lot claiming to have a sale. Is it really?

I don't think you're getting taken, but it does show you need to know all the details before commiting. Aside from the trophy fees we now know daily fees for 10 days and three free animals are covered. Which sounds very good, but which three animals? Your choice or the outfitters? Either way I'd guess on the lower end of the fee scale, not the kudu or gembok mentioned. On that assumption If you wanted those two animals that would make this hunt cost $6450. That is within a normal price range for a five animal hunt from many outfitters without counting in the auction cost. Add another high end trophy fee and it doesn't add up so well to me.

Good luck and good hunting.

 

[rookhawk]

TLDR;

I made it through the first page.

Prices seem way out of line. Way out of line.

I'm not sure if there is a "bring a buddy free" or "you won this in a raffle" extenuating circumstance afoot here, but it sounds not so great.

You can hunt wilderness areas of Zim for less than these prices, although you can't hunt Blesbok or Springbok in Zim. (do you even want to for $850? I think I paid $250-$350 for impala every time in Zim?)

I'd shop this out a bit more, the economy in RSA is not great and the global economy is falling apart. This is the year where prices should be lower than prior, not 4x higher.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

How big is the property?

 

[Safari Dave]

Just so you know, making SCI book isn't all that difficult.

Those prices are ridiculous.

SCI is hardly Rowland Ward.



I was, until recently, an SCI member, and I will be soon be again - I just let my membership expire.



There are some honors that are more about selling a book that accomplishing something significant.

I just may be a published poet, a member of the National Honor Society, and a few other things, that were not worth buying the book.


I probably deserve the Nobel Peace Prize. I'm pretty sure I've done more to deserve it than Obama did during the the 8 months he was POTUS before he got it.

 

[flatwater bill]

One can't compare ALL the trophy fees, so I use kudu as a rough index species. I see them ranging from about $1500 to $4600.......with $2K being about the median. One property that I know of has huge kudu and low prices, so they don't always correlate. (Caveat...I didn't read all of this thread)............best of luck...............FWB

 

[joker2400]

One can't compare ALL the trophy fees, so I use kudu as a rough index species. I see them ranging from about $1500 to $4600.......with $2K being about the median. One property that I know of has huge kudu and low prices, so they don't always correlate. (Caveat...I didn't read all of this thread)............best of luck...............FWB

Can’t say just kudu. I’d say the floor for Southern Greater Kudu these days is 2500, with 3500-4000 being a reasonable expectation. The AH sponsor I’m hunting with in September is charging 3250. The place I hunted last year was 3650, but they have since transitioned to a scaled price.

 

[Dinsdale]

Auction hunts aren't bad but they do raise a red flag to many including myself. People often go into them with a lot of high hopes and emotion and not always a lot of research. It's no different than walking on a car lot claiming to have a sale. Is it really?

I don't think you're getting taken, but it does show you need to know all the details before commiting. Aside from the trophy fees we now know daily fees for 10 days and three free animals are covered. Which sounds very good, but which three animals? Your choice or the outfitters? Either way I'd guess on the lower end of the fee scale, not the kudu or gembok mentioned. On that assumption If you wanted those two animals that would make this hunt cost $6450. That is within a normal price range for a five animal hunt from many outfitters without counting in the auction cost. Add another high end trophy fee and it doesn't add up so well to me.

Good luck and good hunting.

I have done a couple auction hunts. Always with some research; always with outfits that have more median trophy fees and have always added game and one time a few days to make my schedual work better. I would never bid where they are trying to make up their loss on donating by exaggerated trophy fees for additional animals.

For me it was a way to do 2 country hunts back to back, one with an outfit I was going with anyway, and another as an auction add on to extend a trip.

That said it’s been a few years since those hunts and now I’m only after doing hunts in certain places with specific outfits/PHs. I also bought them at SCI convention and it’s just not worth spending the money to attend for me anymore; it’s the cost of round trip airfare to go hunt.

 

[flatwater bill]

I don't know.....I'm looking right now at a trophy list for one of the sponsors here on AH. He lists $4200 for 7 hunting days, 1 kudu, one Hartebeeste, and one zebra. Not sure if pick up and drop off included. Gotta figure that the kudu can't be $3K here......FWB

 

[TXhunter65]

My 2 cents, outfitters donate hunts to organizations like DSC, DU, NWTF, RMEF, SCI, etc... for auction, the hunts usually include a couple of animals maybe a guest or another hunter. There's a lot of absorbed cost when they donate the hunts, I've seen several instances where the trophy fees for those hunters are then increased for any additional animals beyond those included in the package to recover some of those cost.
In some instances, if you add several animals, it would be cheaper to book straight with the outfitter than pay the increased trophy fees depending upon how many and which animals you add.
Not saying it’s right or wrong, it just is what it is, there's always two sides.

 

[TERMINATOR]

I know one outfit in RSA that donates a hunt in almost every SCI/DSC auction there is...I mean every chapter fundraiser in America, not just the big conventions. Their business model seems to be "Give away the hunts to get customers, then gouge the F*ck out of them on the species price list to get back to profitable".

Like
$2000 for Gemsbok
$1800 for Cape Hartebeast
$3000 for Waterbuck
$3700 for Nyala
$3650 for a Kudu, $4700 if 55" or better, $8500 if 60" or better
$700 for Impala, Springbok & Blesbok

Oh...and nickels and dimes you on everything else associated with the hunt (beer/wine at the lodge is a tab, charges $50 for Wifi for duration of your stay, things like that)

This is why you never bid on a auction without knowing the donating outfits price list....

I hate that business model cuz you know they are going to be all over you to shoot more animals because they lost money on you if you don't

I much prefer to hunt with a guy that charges me a fair daily rate and fair species prices and let's you hunt at a pace that is enjoyable to you and lets you be choosy about the animals you shoot.

 

[rookhawk]

This is why you don't see Zimbabwe or Tanzania auction hunts. Only RSA/Namibia type hunts.

Why? Because when you own the animals and you own the lodge/concession, you can do whatever floats your boat. Yes, there are some generous souls out there that donate hunts where you actually got a thing of value in RSA, but usually its the biggest friggin scam on the planet. A great many of the auction hunts are of negative value, forget even "free" and ignoring you "bid" a lot to win the thing of negative value. Jacked up daily rates is one popular hustle. Another is crazy trophy fees. Another is forced to use their terrible and exorbitant taxidermy and dip-pack. Another is that any guest or buddy pays 2x. Another is the death-by-a-thousand-surcharges hustle.

The wilderness countries never get the advertising that the RSA auction hunts do because the operators cannot afford to legitimately donate $10,000-$20,000, and a donation in Zim or Tanzania is exactly the same as handing the charity a suitcase of real cash. The operator has to pay real fees of real substance and they operate on a 10%-20% profit margin over the entire hunt, whereas in RSA they can be operating in a 90%+ margin.

I've paid for four kudus over the years, the prices were all in the $1400-$1800 price range, but even $2000 isn't price gouging. Same story for eland. But the sliding-sale high fence prices in this thread seem insane to me.

For what these guys are going to spend in RSA you could legit hunt an open range country for twice the duration of time with twice the number of animals.

 

[Hunt anything]

I’ve seen a few Zimbabwean and Tanzania hunts up for auction along with a few Mozambique, Uganda and Zambia hunts but some are full of catches and extra costs in the small print hunt description But it is stated up front and fairly transparent. Mostly the government fees and concession fees. As for Tanzania hunts an auction hunt that would provide a few free days would be the only way I could ever hunt that bucket list country.

 

[TERMINATOR]

I’ve seen a few Zimbabwean and Tanzania hunts up for auction along with a few Mozambique, Uganda and Zambia hunts but some are full of catches and extra costs in the small print hunt description But it is stated up front and fairly transparent. Mostly the government fees and concession fees. As for Tanzania hunts an auction hunt that would provide a few free days would be the only way I could ever hunt that bucket list country.

That is the thing about Tanzania. The required fees from the govt are 2x what the PHs charge in Daily Fees. That is what makes hunts there crazy expensive.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

I’ve hunted with 4 different outfitters between Namibia and RSA (soon to be 5). Half have been auction hunts and half I booked direct with that outfitter. There’s definitely something to say about certain business models , BUT that’s their right. The issue I have, is with people thinking a lot of them are scams, and I think thats factually incorrect.

Maybe I’ve gotten lucky in my two African Auction Hunts (soon to be three), but if it weren’t for them (and a bit of alcohol) I never would’ve dreamed I could actually hunt Africa. In addition to them raising money for conservation and great causes, I don’t think I’m alone when I say it’s how I got bit by the bug. I’ve seen a lot of other posts from folks on here about hunts they’ve bid on/won and that resulted in them booking with another outfitter, and/or booking a return trip.

 

[Frederik]

Migrabill,

My point of view from on outsider firtsly if there was no concerns from your side you would not have asked your question on the original post.

What does the package entaill that you have won?
The 3 animals that are included what are they how many days?
Aiport pick up drop off icluded?

So then adding everything up and paying higher than avg for trophies you might end up paying what a normal hunt would cost at another outfitter. Or getting a bit better deal.

Outfitters are welcome to ask whatever they feel like the market can handle.
But I have definitely seen a norm that a hunt won on a auction has higher than normal trophy fees but everything is always open for negotiations.

 

[PeteG]

Can’t say just kudu. I’d say the floor for Southern Greater Kudu these days is 2500, with 3500-4000 being a reasonable expectation. The AH sponsor I’m hunting with in September is charging 3250. The place I hunted last year was 3650, but they have since transitioned to a scaled price.

Not to start a fight or argument, but Zambia is usually regarded as an expensive destination, but trophy fees on kudu here are around $2,500.
granted there are the daily rates and so on that add up which may not be an apples to apples comparison.

without knowing too much about the rsa pricing structure, I’d say the prices you mention are on the upper end of the range.

 

[375Fox]

Can’t say just kudu. I’d say the floor for Southern Greater Kudu these days is 2500, with 3500-4000 being a reasonable expectation. The AH sponsor I’m hunting with in September is charging 3250. The place I hunted last year was 3650, but they have since transitioned to a scaled price.

Limpopo seems to have higher prices on kudu than elsewhere in South Africa. The Botswana offers posted here from NKWE are $1500 for kudu. Namibia is $1500-$2500 for kudu. Zimbabwe is $1200-$1800 with some exceptions up to $2500. I’ve taken 9 greater kudu, 7 recently in the last 6 years. My most expensive was in Limpopo at $2750 in 2019. My least expensive (and best kudu) was $1200 in Zimbabwe in 2021. $3500-$4000 for a kudu unless there is a high chance 55+ would probably make me look elsewhere for that species.

 

[ActionBob]

Yeah... Everybody is kind of acting like I got taken. But I won this hunt and get 3 free animals. So there will be no daily fees etc. Just the trophy fees. Being as the outfitter donated the hunt, I understand he needs to make up for some of that on the trophy fees. And I'm OK with that. Thanks for your input.

This is why I will never bid on a hunt without having a trophy fee list available. Also why so many South Africa hunts sell so cheap. You can end up losing for winning pretty quickly at any auction but especially on some fund raiser hunt auctions.

Glad you seem happy with it. If you are not shooting a lot of animals and won the deal cheap enough, I think you are looking at it in a positive manner. Paying a couple hundred extra on a blesbok or impala and everyone lives But damn that Kudu..... I'd negotiate that down if possible. Or just simply pass on the critters that are way out of line, you seem to have researched and know what they are... You will likely want to go back to Africa. I get going back to the same Outfitter if you really enjoyed your time..... But some Outfitters seem to think they own clients for life. It is not a marriage. Spread it around and experience a new area or better yet a new country next time

 

[rookhawk]

migrabill said:
Yeah... Everybody is kind of acting like I got taken. But I won this hunt and get 3 free animals. So there will be no daily fees etc. Just the trophy fees. Being as the outfitter donated the hunt, I understand he needs to make up for some of that on the trophy fees. And I'm OK with that. Thanks for your input.

Could we do the actual math?

What was the purchase price of the auction hunt?

At the published price sheet, what are the costs and number of animals in total?

What are the incidental charges, pickup, beverage, or additional fees?

Is there a daily rate, or does one occur if you intend to stay longer?


I’m all for charity, and it’s great to support conservation organizations. What I think is worthwhile is to do the math and then ask two alternative scenarios? 1.) Assuming it wasn’t charity, is this a fair value? 2.) As an alternative, paying cash to greedy capitalists, what would a similar hunt cost and what amount of cash surplus would remain to write a check to charity instead?