Why no love for the .358 Win?

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

With my 9.3 weighing about 1 3/4lbs less than my 375, 286grn pill vs 300grn within 100fps of each other, the 9.3 still has slightly less recoil to me. Both are comfortable to shoot. Understand though felt recoil is very subjective to the individual. What is comfortable to some may loosen the fillings of others, LOL.

@Rick HOlbert
The mates sauer 9.3x62 didn't loosen my fillings but that bitch of a stock damned near took the side of my head off.
Recoil wise it was fine but the upward belt in the chops was a doozie.
Bob

 

[Rick HOlbert]

@Rick HOlbert
The mates sauer 9.3x62 didn't loosen my fillings but that bitch of a stock damned near took the side of my head off.
Recoil wise it was fine but the upward belt in the chops was a doozie.
Bob

Funny you should mention that Bob. The geometry of a stock has a lot to do with felt recoil. The stock on my Steyr Scout in 308 feels like I'm shooting a 243. I've shot some rifles that are soft recoiling cartridges but because of the stock made your eyes water.

 

[7x57Joe]

Reminds me, several years back a friend and I was preparing for an elk hunt. A couple of days before leaving, he asked me to shoot his rifle to make sure it was still sighted in. I told him sure and I needed to check mine too. Both were .30'06s and mine using a 180 grain handload @ 2750 fps, his with a 165 grain @ 2800. My M70 was in a Bell and Carlson stock and his Sako was factory. I shot mine 3 times and put his on the bags. The first shot from his and I thought it had blown up! I couldn't believe it kicked so badly with a lighter load. So, maybe I wasn't holding it tight against my shoulder, and I fired it again. Same wretched kick again! At least both shots were 1" above the aimpoint and I was done. The stock geometry does indeed make a difference.

 

[Tree-ratsniper]

Has anyone shot the Sauer 100 in 9.3x62? That one is on my short list.

 

[Tam Dl]

I consider these 2 different classes of cartridges. Depends on what performance one wants / needs.
Based on raw performance, I can toss out both by using a 375 Ruger or H&H.

The attractant to me is the short action in a lever gun, with respectable performance for up to 200 yard / meter shots. I would choose it or the 338 Federal over the other 308 Winchester brass based cartridges at those distances, for any game that a 308 Winchester is considered suitable for.
We all have our personal performance comfort zones. I think at those distances it would be great on game through caribou size.
I know it has worked well for some on elk, moose, and black bear & grizzly.

Well said, though my ultimate lever gun is the 1895 in 9.3x62. I mean I can think of other ultimates, but the 1895, is the only one that will do it for 2K (plus the barrel I have for a 9.3 project).

 

[Tam Dl]

Has anyone shot the Sauer 100 in 9.3x62? That one is on my short list.

Just seen a few video, but it looked good.

 

[Forrest Halley]

Another comparison. Apples to Oranges.
Not in the same powder capacity nor bullet weight class. Never intended to compete with each other.
View attachment 514683
458 Lott, 404 grain Shock Hammer
358 Winchester, 203 grain Shock Hammer

Thanks for this post. Now you've got me wondering about loading my Lott with a bullet like this. How fast are you pushing it?

 

[Jon R15]

Garys Gun Shop in Sioux Falls, SD has a few 50 round packages of new Hornady 358 brass in stock.

 

[mdwest]

@Mark Biggerstaff at R&M Firearms hooked me up with .358 win components last week (hornady brass and some hornady bullets) … if anyone is looking for.358 win stuff, mark can probably hook you up

 

[mdwest]

Brass and bullets converted into 100 bacon busters this afternoon…

Time to take the 358 Winchester to the range and and see how she shoots!

Starting out with a fairly mild and inexpensive load… 200gr hornady interlocks over 48gn of IMR 4064… should put me at about 2350fps and give an idea on how well the rifle functions, generally groups, etc…

Then I’ll try to develop a hunting load with Barnes 225gr ttsx (already have a few hundred of those on hand that were originally intended for the Whelen) that will get a little north of 2450fps if I can pull it off… (not sure there is enough case capacity for that… but I’ll try a few different powders and see how it goes…

 

[CoElkHunter]

Another comparison. Apples to Oranges.
Not in the same powder capacity nor bullet weight class. Never intended to compete with each other.
View attachment 514683
458 Lott, 404 grain Shock Hammer
358 Winchester, 203 grain Shock Hammer

Since you're mentioning "Hammers", where's your new .360 Remington Buck Hammer? LOL

 

[Rick HOlbert]

View attachment 517930

Brass and bullets converted into 100 bacon busters this afternoon…

Time to take the 358 Winchester to the range and and see how she shoots!

Starting out with a fairly mild and inexpensive load… 200gr hornady interlocks over 48gn of IMR 4064… should put me at about 2350fps and give an idea on how well the rifle functions, generally groups, etc…

Then I’ll try to develop a hunting load with Barnes 225gr ttsx (already have a few hundred of those on hand that were originally intended for the Whelen) that will get a little north of 2450fps if I can pull it off… (not sure there is enough case capacity for that… but I’ll try a few different powders and see how it goes…

Mdwest you're on the right track! Loads with the 225grn Barnes are possible at 2500fps. Using Varget or W-748. You'll have to use a drop tube and they will compress the powder a lot. Never had pressure problems though. That Barnes TSX is long for it's weight and is why I've since gone to the 225grn Swift A-Frame. Not as much compression and still very accurate. 250's can be pushed to 2400fps using the same powders. Those loads have worked the treat for me in Namibia.

 

[ldmay375]

Since you're mentioning "Hammers", where's your new .360 Remington Buck Hammer? LOL

It is disguised, as a 375 Winchester in a Winchester lever gun.

 

[Vashper]

I got this opinion about this cartridge: "There should be a lot of calibers, and people will figure it out for themselves, in my opinion, such cartridges would be ideal in Russia. They are cheap to manufacture because on the brass 308, and the head is not shaken off, and you will have to run after the beast much less often for the sake of a more serious stopping action. And a responsible hunter will not shoot further than 200m in a forest area from any caliber."
There is some background here: this cartridge is considered as an analog of the 9x53R cartridge. This cartridge is obtained from a standard Mosin cartridge using a 9 mm bullet, and such a cartridge was popular in Russia and Finland after the 2nd World War. Now it has lost popularity due to the "R" design and, in part, the "mortar trajectory". A pity. I would change my self-charging for the 308 to a similar one for the 358.

 

[ldmay375]

I got this opinion about this cartridge: "There should be a lot of calibers, and people will figure it out for themselves, in my opinion, such cartridges would be ideal in Russia. They are cheap to manufacture because on the brass 308, and the head is not shaken off, and you will have to run after the beast much less often for the sake of a more serious stopping action. And a responsible hunter will not shoot further than 200m in a forest area from any caliber."
There is some background here: this cartridge is considered as an analog of the 9x53R cartridge. This cartridge is obtained from a standard Mosin cartridge using a 9 mm bullet, and such a cartridge was popular in Russia and Finland after the 2nd World War. Now it has lost popularity due to the "R" design and, in part, the "mortar trajectory". A pity. I would change my self-charging for the 308 to a similar one for the 358.

Vashper,
At 200 meter and less distances, I also think the 358 Winchester & 338 Federal maximize the effectiveness of the 308 / 7.62x51 brass.
I think the .358 has some advantage over the .338 at the 200 meter and under distances.

 

[Vashper]

Vashper,
At 200 meter and less distances, I also think the 358 Winchester & 338 Federal maximize the effectiveness of the 308 / 7.62x51 brass.
I think the .358 has some advantage over the .338 at the 200 meter and under distances.

There is such a Krechmar, nick - kiowa, , a biologist, a hunter and PH, he wrote a book about bears in Kamchatka. He personally killed, if I'm not mistaken, several dozen. I once asked him about the influence of the caliber; he said definitely that any 9mm is better than any 300th, and the energy affects less.
True, there was no 9.3x39 caliber then, for sure, someone had already used it on the bear , it is unknown with what result.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Vashper,
At 200 meter and less distances, I also think the 358 Winchester & 338 Federal maximize the effectiveness of the 308 / 7.62x51 brass.
I think the .358 has some advantage over the .338 at the 200 meter and under distances.

Just get a .338WM and be done with all the lesser cartridges. LOL

 

[CoElkHunter]

I got this opinion about this cartridge: "There should be a lot of calibers, and people will figure it out for themselves, in my opinion, such cartridges would be ideal in Russia. They are cheap to manufacture because on the brass 308, and the head is not shaken off, and you will have to run after the beast much less often for the sake of a more serious stopping action. And a responsible hunter will not shoot further than 200m in a forest area from any caliber."
There is some background here: this cartridge is considered as an analog of the 9x53R cartridge. This cartridge is obtained from a standard Mosin cartridge using a 9 mm bullet, and such a cartridge was popular in Russia and Finland after the 2nd World War. Now it has lost popularity due to the "R" design and, in part, the "mortar trajectory". A pity. I would change my self-charging for the 308 to a similar one for the 358.

I've owned two Mosin Nagant 91 rifles and one M44. The recoil on the M44 was brutal, probably due to the lighter weight and the stock design, but the 91s were/are great rifles. Smooth actions and very accurate with open sights. I would think they would be/are great for hunting almost everything in Russia. The 7.62x54 is a very good hunting cartridge with soft point bullets.

 

[Flewis]

CrisG, no 35 cal has ever done well in the us. Maybe with the advent of these straight wall states and the 35cal minimum that will change. One can only hope. The 358win is a great round.

 

[AZDAVE]

@Tree-ratsniper the recoil in the sauer 100 is straight back, with the factory tupperware stock the rilfe is a bit lite for caliber but not bad. With the boyds aftermarket laminated wood stock it is very mild. I will quantify that statement with I have been a big bore guy my whole life and consider the 416 404 class of rounds to be my 30/06. I have said that I find the rounds under 40 cal kinda boring but they are damn useful. with my favorite medium bore being the 9.3x62/9.3x74 followed by 375 H&H. That being said the sauer is comfortable to shoot.

@mdwest That box of rounds looks like alot of ham/bacon/pork chops are headed your way soon. That 358 will be a 200 and under hammer on most anything in the non DG category.