Why no 375 RUM?

[Riflecrank]

I know there is plenty of hate here for the Weatherby cartridges like 378, 416 and 460 but why does no one talk about or use the 375 RUM? What I've seen looks like it runs on the heels of the 378W, is it to much kick? Lack of availability? Just curious.

I have tried them all that you mention and too many more to shake a stick at.
Always, the .458 Winchester Magnum is the winner, with a 3.6" magazine box it beats the SAAMI .458 Lott.

My .375 RUM affliction was short-circuited by the more practical .375 Weatherby Magnum of 2001 CIP.
That is the best .375 of all, able to fire common .375 H&H in a pinch, accurate and only loses a hundred fps in the roomier chamber. It gentles the .375 H&H recoil for the sensitive-shouldered.
Yet it can do 2800 fps in a 26" barrel with 300-gr Weatherby factory ammo.
Just what a .375 RUM is touted for.
I have also tried .375/.338 Lapua Magnum (aka 9.5mm Tornado),
.375/404 Jeffery,
.378 Weatherby Magnum,
.375 Ruger.

None offer any advantage over the .375 Weatherby Magnum,
except the .375 Ruger's compactness at lesser MV,
and the .378 WbyMag's greater MV at all kinds of disadvantages.

In my fling with the .375 RUM in 2001, I shot a nice big buck from a tree stand
(I was in the tree stand, not the buck)
with this 23"-barreled one that was faster and more accurate than the Remington factory rifle
having 26" stainless barrel (M700 LSS).
Same 300-gr Swift/Remington factory ammo used in both rifles and on the white tail buck:

 

[Axle2010]

I have tried them all that you mention and too many more to shake a stick at.
Always, the .458 Winchester Magnum is the winner, with a 3.6" magazine box it beats the SAAMI .458 Lott.

My .375 RUM affliction was short-circuited by the more practical .375 Weatherby Magnum of 2001 CIP.
That is the best .375 of all, able to fire common .375 H&H in a pinch, accurate and only loses a hundred fps in the roomier chamber. It gentles the .375 H&H recoil for the sensitive-shouldered.
Yet it can do 2800 fps in a 26" barrel with 300-gr Weatherby factory ammo.
Just what a .375 RUM is touted for.
I have also tried .375/.338 Lapua Magnum (aka 9.5mm Tornado),
.375/404 Jeffery,
.378 Weatherby Magnum,
.375 Ruger.

None offer any advantage over the .375 Weatherby Magnum,
except the .375 Ruger's compactness at lesser MV,
and the .378 WbyMag's greater MV at all kinds of disadvantages.

In my fling with the .375 RUM in 2001, I shot a nice big buck from a tree stand
(I was in the tree stand, not the buck)
with this 23"-barreled one that was faster and more accurate than the Remington factory rifle
having 26" stainless barrel (M700 LSS).
Same 300-gr Swift/Remington factory ammo used in both rifles and on the white tail buck:

View attachment 603655
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Great looking rifle and fine shootin, do you still have it?

 

[Riflecrank]

Axle2010,

Thanks for the flowers. Sorry for the tardy reply.
I have been busy collecting and shooting more .458 Winchester Magnum rifles.

I have the take-off .375 RUM-marked barrel (not marred by take-off) and the unique custom stock that was fitted to it.
The striking CZ 550 Magnum action (with no billboard marking on the left side, serial # AHR 50,001)
is currently sitting in a CZ "Kevlar" stock from CZ-USA ...
(Trademark infringement made them change stock model name to "Aramid" before they quit selling the very same B&C stock for $200 more than cost from B&C directly)
... and that action has a Dan Lilja, stainless, fluted, No. 6 Sporter contour, 26" long, 1:12" twist, 6-groove barrel screwed into it.
That barrel was chambered for .375/404 Jeffery with latest revision CIP .375 WbyMag throat on it, from a custom reamer made by Dave Manson.
Basically a .416 Dakota necked down to .375 and throated to my specifications.

I need to turn that special CZ action, Winchester barrel, and custom stock back into a .375 RUM WinCZeckster with 23" barrel, now that I have a plan for the fluted, fat Dan Lilja barrel.
I also have a No. 4 McGowen take-off, stainless barrel in .375/404 Jeffery that is only 25" long and 1:10" twist, and weighs about same as the No. 6, fluted Dan Lilja.
Re-chambering the Dan Lilja to something racier is now indicated.
I also have a .410/404 Jeffery Rimless Nitro Express on a CZ 550 Magnum action in a B&C Medalist stock. That rifle is about as desirable as tits on a boar hog.

The Dan Lilja .375 barrel would make a dandy .375 CheyTac on another CZ 550 Magnum action.
I have proven that the Dan Lilja No. 6 sporter can be made to fit in the B&C "Medalist" (best model name for it) stock for the CZ 550 Magnum action.
Use stubby bullets for feeding through the magazine.
Single load the long and pointy ones for King of Two Mile.
I also have a CZ 550 Magnum .505 Gibbs, whacky first year production,
and an MRC M1999 PH stainless .408 CheyTac sporter with a Dan Lilja No. 7 Sporter, stainless, fluted,
1:13" barrel, of 26" length. Barrel too big for a B&C, it is in a Plain Jane walnut stock supplied by MRC.

Creating a .375 CheyTac sporter on a CZ 550 Magnum action is indeed feasible and will goad me into re-assembling the .375 RUM WinCZeckster.

 

[Riflecrank]

 

[Riflecrank]

Well heck, I just noticed that in the process of re-barreling and re-stocking AHR 500001 to .375/404J
it got a 3-pos Wisner safety, a Timney trigger, and I do have a Wisner floor plate I could add to it.
With that M70-style safety it is going to look even more like a WinCZechster when it gets back to being a .375 RUM. So glad this thread has given me a kick in the seat of the pants.

 

[Riflecrank]

Uh-oh. Bolt face might have been opened up to 404 Jeffery instead of rebated .375 RUM rim ... I will try the .375 RUM rim in the .375/404J to see if it is too loose.
.375 RUM barrel might have to go on a spare .375 WbyMag CZ550 Mag donor.
Never fear, I say to myself. It can be done.

 

[Axle2010]

Uh-oh. Bolt face might have been opened up to 404 Jeffery instead of rebated .375 RUM rim ... I will try the .375 RUM rim in the .375/404J to see if it is too loose.
.375 RUM barrel might have to go on a spare .375 WbyMag CZ550 Mag donor.
Never fear, I say to myself. It can be done.

Aren't the RUM cartridges based off the 404J anyway? So the bolt face would be the same?

 

[Bert the Turtle]

Aren't the RUM cartridges based off the 404J anyway? So the bolt face would be the same?

RUM specs are 5/1000s bigger at the base.

 

[Riflecrank]

Not quite right, by the maximum brass specifications.
In practice measuring actual brass, as manufactured, diameters may vary, and are about always less than the maximums for each by a few thou, hopefully by no more than two or three thou.

Ignore "NonTaperThrtLen" above, it is a typo or bug in the program.
For the 404 Jeffery it means the neck length of 0.624".
For the .375 RUM I don't know what it means.

 

[Houston Bill]

I bought a 375 RUM from the Remington Custom Shop in 2001. It has been a great rifle and cartridge for me. I have shot a lot of game, especially African game with it. Maybe I was just lucky, but I never had the feeding issues others have experienced. About 2 year ago I had the rifle rebarreled with a Lilja barrel and had it restocked with an HS Precision stock....I never did like the factory laminated wood stock. I also had to replace the bolt because the gunsmith dropped it and it broke. Luckily he had an old but never used David Tubb Remington 700 bolt with a Speedlock firing pin that fit my rifle. The rifle always shot well, about 1 MOA, but now it shoots sub 0.5 MOA with factory Barnes ammo all day long. I will go to my grave with this rifle and then it will be my son's rifle!

 

[Rule 303]

Not quite right, by the maximum brass specifications.
In practice measuring actual brass, as manufactured, diameters may vary, and are about always less than the maximums for each by a few thou, hopefully by no more than two or three thou.

View attachment 607082View attachment 607083
Ignore "NonTaperThrtLen" above, it is a typo or bug in the program.
For the 404 Jeffery it means the neck length of 0.624".
For the .375 RUM I don't know what it means.

The RUM cases are based on the 404 J, just the same as the 458 Win Mag is based on a 375H&H case. Yes they have changed aspects of the design, but they started with the 404 or 375H&H. Plenty of cases have these two as their, father, grandfather or great grandfather.

 

[Axle2010]

Well heck, I just noticed that in the process of re-barreling and re-stocking AHR 500001 to .375/404J
it got a 3-pos Wisner safety, a Timney trigger, and I do have a Wisner floor plate I could add to it.
With that M70-style safety it is going to look even more like a WinCZechster when it gets back to being a .375 RUM. So glad this thread has given me a kick in the seat of the pants.
View attachment 606951

Hey 'Crank since I gave you a kick in the pants to get that rifle built again I feel like maybe you should build me one while you're at it as thanks for inspiring you! I'll take mine in walnut and blue please lol.

 

[Rocco490]

Design of case with its Rebated Rim, Extra fat body, minimal body taper, and sharper shoulder angles are all detrimental for slick reliable feeding. Particularly in a dangerous game rifle that is not ideal. Also requires an extra long action to handle it. Poor factory rifle availability. I didn't know of anyone other than Remington offering rifles chambered in it. Stout (and sharp) recoil for a medium bore. For the level of recoil I would much prefer a 416 Remington Magnum. Poor ammo availability, not often found on the shelves anywhere, and very unlikely to have any available at a hunting camp. If your rifle doesn't shoot the remington ammo well you are mostly out of luck not many others were loading it. Competing directly with the great and long established 375 h&h didn't help it either.

 

[Riflecrank]

The RUM cases are based on the 404 J, just the same as the 458 Win Mag is based on a 375H&H case. Yes they have changed aspects of the design, but they started with the 404 or 375H&H. Plenty of cases have these two as their, father, grandfather or great grandfather.

Willful ignorance on .375 RUM from 404 Jeffery part.
You got the .458 WinMag from .375 H&H part correct.

When you remove most of the taper of the .375 H&H and shorten it in length to 2.5" to make a .458 WinMag, yes indeed, the .375 H&H is the legitimate basis case of the .458 WinMag.

However, when you make from scratch a RUM case with head diameter 0.010" greater than the 404 Jeffery and rebate the rim so it will work in a .375 H&H bolt face:
The .375 RUM is the bastard love child of the .375 H&H and the 404 Jeffery's Uncle Bob on steroids.

 

[Rule 303]

Willful ignorance on .375 RUM from 404 Jeffery part.
You got the .458 WinMag from .375 H&H part correct.

When you remove most of the taper of the .375 H&H and shorten it in length to 2.5" to make a .458 WinMag, yes indeed, the .375 H&H is the legitimate basis case of the .458 WinMag.

However, when you make from scratch a RUM case with head diameter 0.010" greater than the 404 Jeffery and rebate the rim so it will work in a .375 H&H bolt face:
The .375 RUM is the bastard love child of the .375 H&H and the 404 Jeffery's Uncle Bob on steroids.

Maybe, but they started with the 404 case and modified it to suit the 700 action. Not saying they did it well.

If I was to build one I would use a Rem action, one of their M17 actions.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

Not quite right, by the maximum brass specifications.
In practice measuring actual brass, as manufactured, diameters may vary, and are about always less than the maximums for each by a few thou, hopefully by no more than two or three thou.

View attachment 607082View attachment 607083
Ignore "NonTaperThrtLen" above, it is a typo or bug in the program.
For the 404 Jeffery it means the neck length of 0.624".
For the .375 RUM I don't know what it means.

I learned something here. Thanks. I was looking at the head- the rim is important when specifying the bolt face.

 

[ldmay375]

The 375 RUM has always been an intriguing cartridge, to me. Particularly in a Winchester M70 Classic stainless. I have just never taken that plunge. If you have to right bullet, not much that it will not do, up close or far.
I still get fleeting thoughts of owning one.

 

[Houston Bill]

Design of case with its Rebated Rim, Extra fat body, minimal body taper, and sharper shoulder angles are all detrimental for slick reliable feeding. Particularly in a dangerous game rifle that is not ideal. Also requires an extra long action to handle it. Poor factory rifle availability. I didn't know of anyone other than Remington offering rifles chambered in it. Stout (and sharp) recoil for a medium bore. For the level of recoil I would much prefer a 416 Remington Magnum. Poor ammo availability, not often found on the shelves anywhere, and very unlikely to have any available at a hunting camp. If your rifle doesn't shoot the remington ammo well you are mostly out of luck not many others were loading it. Competing directly with the great and long established 375 h&h didn't help it either.

All valid points. Over the years I have solved the ammo availability problem by buying a case or 2 when it is available. I still have several boxes of the Remington 300 gr Swift A Frame's and more than a case of the Barnes 270gr LRX that shoots lights out in my rifle. I also hand load a 260gr Nosler Accubond that also shoots 0.75 MOA. Probably could tweak the load to get it better but 0.75 is good enough for me. And knock on wood....I have never had my ammo not arrive when I have hunted with this rifle!

 

[IvW]

375 RUM on a white tail from a tree stand...amasing stuff

 

[Houston Bill]

375 RUM on a white tail from a tree stand...amasing stuff

I hope you did not miss your deer