Why lighter in a larger bore

[ldmay375]

Every chance I get!

But, seriously, despite the change in view, I am not sure whether I should use the lighter bullet, or get stick with the standard 400 gr. I keep waffling on how much of an advantage it is.

Compare the bc and speed of the 400 grain bullet that you presently use to the lighter bullet that you are considering. Make your decision, if the trajectory and windage is beneficial to you.

Seems simple to adjust the sight-in to your 400 grain before leaving for a buffalo trip. Either way, make the choice to satisfy your situation.

 

[TOBY458]

My R8 458 shoots the 258gr CEB Socom bullets only 2" higher than the 420/450gr CEB Raptor/Solid combo. The 258gr bullets are moving at 2800 fps. Whereas the 420/450 bullets are moving at 2300 fps. So, I can carry along some lighter, somewhat flatter shooting bullets in my ammo belt for shooting PG, Heyena, ect. No scope adjustment needed. I would, of course, always have the heavier bullets in the rifle while hunting DG. This would make the 458 a reasonable one gun solution in an area where you didn't have a lot of long range shooting opportunities. The lighter bullets are reasonably flat shooting out to 250 yards, so that would cover a very large portion of PG shooting in the areas that I've hunted.

 

[0002S]

I theory a lighter bullet, with a better BC, would be faster at the muzzle, providing less drop/drift, at longer distances, while still retaining enough energy to expand and penetrate the vitals of the target animal. Another advantage would be less damage to a smaller target animal.

The target animal also plays into this...lol.

One of the problem with big bore bullets is the manufactures are not concerned with long distance shooting BCs and bullet expansion at less than 1800 fps. This wouldn't be an issue on a .416 springbuck at 400 yards, but it would be huge on something the rifle/round was designed, at that distance.

As an example, a .416 Weatherby (factory load data....YMMV) w/350 Barnes ttsx (.444 G1 & 200 yd zero) drops 21" at 400 yards. The velocity/energy (again factory load data) is running 2207 / 3785. That is amazing for a big bore. That's only 5 1/4 MOA come up. That is easily dialed in, on a scope with exposed turrets, in the field.

The velocity and energy is still more than enough for small to medium plains game out to 600 yards. The issue becomes the bullet drop. It double between 400 and 500 yards.

Should Hornady decided to come up with 416 Jesusmoore (tm) and designs a 300 gr, controlled expanding hunting round, with a BC like it's A-TIP match, game on....lol

My opinion is that nobody really wants an 'all-arounder' .40+ cal rifle. Although you can get the distance, the recoil and cost per round doesn't make sense when that size of the animals is easily handled with a 30.06 - 300 Win Mag.

FWIW, nothing beats a well placed shot.

 

[colorado]

If it’s a bolt gun you can do a lot with it. If it’s a 416, with 300 grain you could get to about 300 yards.

I shoot 570g TSX's out of my 500 Jeffery. I sight in at 2 1/2 " high at 100 yards like I do all of my rifles. It's dead on at 25 yards, dead on again at 175 yards., 2" low at 200 and 16 inches low at 300 yards. Holdover is easy. Still has 3700 ft/lbs of energy at 300 yards.

 

[csmiffy]

well speaking from my experience, which is very minimal I might add, I have taken a couple of cattle beasts and a red stag using 350gr Barnes x points circa 1997 with my 416 rem mag.
Not even full house loads as they were useable fireforming loads from 375 H+H brass (hard to get the proper stuff in NZ in them days and a lot cheaper).
The first cattle beast was a good result as it was a quartering shot just in front of the back leg at maybe 50 metres as it was trotting away. Dropped it like a sack of spuds. The projectile had travelled through everything, smashed a lung and ended up in the neck. Petals had just opened up and gone flat but not curled back yet. Just not going fast enough and acting like a solid really. Sadly lost that projectile so can't show it here.
Second cattle beast one was a broadside shot at a hundy but don't recall what that projectile did
The stag was a front-on shot at about the same distance but it raked across a couple of ribs. Dropped like the spuds again.
I have developed a load with 340gr Woodleighs that are nudging 2700pfs.
You can obviously tell that from the 3 animals I dispatched that it wouldn't have mattered much as they weren't that far away.
The main reason is that I wanted a cheaper, more appropriate projectile for the NZ game i would be trying for.
The only factory ammo was dear as poison back then and all 400 grainers.
I didn't believe that they were appropriate for red deer and if I did see a deer a couple of hundred meters away I thought it better to go lighter and faster/flatter
If I wanted to carry the rifle about (I did just didn't see much when I did) I wanted the most appropriate ammo for it.
if all I saw was big stuff and no further than a hundy I certainly agree it would be prudent to just stick with the 400's for it

 

[zephyr]

I been following this post trying to come up with a suitable response for Pheroze's query and the best I can do is "Why Not".

 

[1dirthawker]

Every chance I get!

But, seriously, despite the change in view, I am not sure whether I should use the lighter bullet, or get stick with the standard 400 gr. I keep waffling on how much of an advantage it is.

if you know the drops, with the right bullet a 416 will kill pretty far out there

 

[zephyr]

If you're choosing to use your .40 in North America and want to use it for Moose Elk Bear or ground hog Can't see any reason why working up a 300gr load and sighting the gun in would a problem. When the .40 is Africa bound and a 400gr Bullet is desired just a few minutes on the range is needed to re-adjust the scope

 

[Pheroze]

I been following this post trying to come up with a suitable response for Pheroze's query and the best I can do is "Why Not".

if you know the drops, with the right bullet a 416 will kill pretty far out there

If you're choosing to use your .40 in North America and want to use it for Moose Elk Bear or ground hog Can't see any reason why working up a 300gr load and sighting the gun in would a problem. When the .40 is Africa bound and a 400gr Bullet is desired just a few minutes on the range is needed to re-adjust the scope

I started this thread when thinking about that point in time when the buffalo hunt is over, and few plains game are chased to fill the days. Or that unique opportunity arises in the middle of it. For the different hunts, I thought about whether it is best to get to know a 400gr very well or the rifle and cartridge in all its potential variations. I am inclined to believe getting to know the original loading very well would be the most practical.

But "why not" certainly resonates with me!

 

[jacques smith]

I’ll go with why not if it trips your trigger. But I prefer to know the heavier bullet weight in my 400 shooting 400 grains as opposed to wondering which pill is in the pipe
Where I hunt moose; it’s rather normal to have a grizzly show up

 

[sgt_zim]

Tinkering with a cartridge is fun, no doubt there. But, is a lighter bullet in a cartridge that shoots a 40 caliber bullet or greater a practical advantage? Considering what the design is for, does dropping down significantly in weight just try to make the cartridge do what it was never intended to do? I think that within 200 yards for a deer, it's still best to keep with the 400+ grain bullet that the cannon works with for the 50-yard buffalo shot. And, if you are shooting 300 yards, use a different cartridge designed for 300+ yards. Thoughts?

There just aren't any high BC options I can find for .416 or .423.

The only 416 bullet I can find that's north of 0.4 is 350 gr TTSX. Maybe NF are higher BC, too, but I don't see any ballistics data on them, so I don't know.

All that aside, there probably isn't that much difference in ballistic arc at 300 yards between a 400 gr bullet (irrespective of BC) at say 2300 fps and a 300 gr bullet at 2700 fps. On a 100 yard zero, assuming you can get that sort of velocity improvement, the difference will be probably 4 - 6 inches. If you use MPBR for both, the difference probably shrinks down to 3 or 4 inches.

On something the size of a moose or elk, it's a meaningless difference. Though with any of those bullet selections at 300 yards, you're probably at the very edge of expecting much expansion out of the bullet. A Hawk bullet with a thin jacket, maybe one of their 0.035 jackets, probably would.