why do people not use premium bullets?

[Pilgrim]

As one who has shot plenty of deer and elk with "cheap" bullets, they simply work. Good shot placement and the animal goes down every time. I've never had to track an animal more than 100 yds and I'm also nothing special when it comes to marksmanship. Mediocre is a good word to describe me.

 

[Daisy]

As one who has shot plenty of deer and elk with "cheap" bullets, they simply work. Good shot placement and the animal goes down every time. I've never had to track an animal more than 100 yds and I'm also nothing special when it comes to marksmanship. Mediocre is a good word to describe me.

100 yards tracking in the bush can be a lost animal.

I agree on deer, pigs, and coyote. Use whatever

But to spend 5k flying to Africa, and 15k on trophy fees and shipping, and pay 60 for a box of ammo instead of 120? That frankly bottles the mind. Rape me over the coals if you wish.

 

[mdwest]

But to spend 5k flying to Africa, and 15k on trophy fees and shipping, and pay 60 for a box of ammo instead of 120? That frankly bottles the mind. Rape me over the coals if you wish.

that is the most common, and most sensical argument..

the difference in a $30 vs a $60 box of ammo is completely immaterial in the scope of the total cost of an international hunt..

while the premium ammo might only buy you 5% more "insurance" (or whatever value you want to put on it).. certainly an additional $30-$50 in ammo costs is worth that when the total investment of time, energy, and money thats involved in an international hunt is on the line?

Its not just that 100 yards could result in a lost animal.. those same 100 yards could result in the loss of hours even if the animal is found.. and those hours could have otherwise been spent hunting..

I still maintain that if Im using a camp rifle and the PH hands me a box of core-lokt for it, Im not going to complain.. if I do my job, the core-lokt will do its job as well.. and there is nothing to be concerned about..

but if I actually have a choice in the matter.. I find it very curious when I talk to people that choose to take power points or core lokt or whatever with them on their hunt to shoot out of their own rifles.. when theyve invested thousands (if not tens of thousands) of dollars in the intended hunt.. what difference would another $30-$50 really have made?

 

[Tam Dl]

Wilson just put up a video on their Lehigh manufacturing process. I have nothing to do with them, and their product might well never make Canadian stores. But it turns out that two of the things I had earlier guessed are right: They machine every bullet (I think); an their product and testing cycle is immensely fast.

I am not necessarily recommending the video as some of these interviews with Bill, have a kinda "interview with the boss aspect to them". And it can go both ways, Bills seems pretty nice, occasionally nervous. But there is food for thought if people want it.

 

[Divernhunter]

I like Swift A-Frame and sometimes Sirocco bullets. I upgraded from the Nosler PAR I used before. I tried their BT bullets but had poor results on deer and Pronghorn in certain situations. Long ago I used core-locks for our deer that are not much bigger than a jack rabbit.
The A-frames have worked great and very few times I needed to track game. I also try to take out a shoulder with whatever shot I get. My daughter used 120gr A-Frames in her 257R and has dropped every animal with one shot including Kudu, Zebra, Deer, Hogs and others.
I have used 225gr A-Frames in my 338win mag and one shot kills on Eland, Kudu, Zebra, Pigs, and elk as well as other animals. I have also used 120gr A-Frames in my 257W, 6.5X300W to excellent effect. Where I am stuck living we are required to use a non-lead bullet and I use Barnes TTSX and LRX bullets and they work well. I give the edge to the Swift bullets. I prefer to use the better bullets even where not required. They do not amount to much of the cost of the hunt and will perform better on a less that ideal shot.

Here is the 338cal 225gr A-Frame I recovered from one of the elk. Rarely do I get to recover the bullet but this one took out the front shoulder and ended up pushing the skin out on the last rib of the other side. It was a mostly facing me shot at 285 yards.

 

[Sideshow]

Rape me over the coals if you wish.

Don’t know about the rape thing but maybe a little dragging here and there

 

[Sideshow]

139gr interlock at 130 yards the buck was quartering away through the woods entry behind the left foreleg and found just under the skin on the right brisket. Went 75kg on the game dealers scales.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

139gr interlock at 130 yards the buck was quartering away through the woods entry behind the left foreleg and found just under the skin on the right brisket. Went 75kg on the game dealers scales.
View attachment 557088View attachment 557089View attachment 557091

@Sideshow
What caliber and what speed.
I find the SSTs expand the same under 3,000fps.
Bob

150gn 308 SST 2,900fps
80 plus kg pig.
Bob

 

[grand veneur]

458 500gr Hornady Interbond bullets / Buffalos

 

[sgt_zim]

that is the most common, and most sensical argument..

the difference in a $30 vs a $60 box of ammo is completely immaterial in the scope of the total cost of an international hunt..

while the premium ammo might only buy you 5% more "insurance" (or whatever value you want to put on it).. certainly an additional $30-$50 in ammo costs is worth that when the total investment of time, energy, and money thats involved in an international hunt is on the line?

Its not just that 100 yards could result in a lost animal.. those same 100 yards could result in the loss of hours even if the animal is found.. and those hours could have otherwise been spent hunting..

I still maintain that if Im using a camp rifle and the PH hands me a box of core-lokt for it, Im not going to complain.. if I do my job, the core-lokt will do its job as well.. and there is nothing to be concerned about..

but if I actually have a choice in the matter.. I find it very curious when I talk to people that choose to take power points or core lokt or whatever with them on their hunt to shoot out of their own rifles.. when theyve invested thousands (if not tens of thousands) of dollars in the intended hunt.. what difference would another $30-$50 really have made?

Exactly this.

Even if the ammo is $5 per, a hunter might shoot as much as $100 worth of ammo on a 10-day hunt in Africa. If he's hunting elk or moose in the western US, he's unlikely to shoot more than $20 worth of ammo.

Everything we do in hunting is about improving the odds of a quick, clean kill.

Rocks -> spears -> bow and arrow -> black powder with round lead balls -> black powder with rifled barrels + maxi balls -> modern rifles + iron sights + cup & core -> modern rifles + scopes + cup & core -> modern rifles + scopes + premium

These changes were all incremental, and were all improvements over what existed before them. The advantage a premium offers over a design that's been around for 130+ years may be small, but it's still an advantage.

 

[Daisy]

458 500gr Hornady Interbond bullets / Buffalos
View attachment 557123Those look awful. Blown apart with poor weight retention.

 

[flying sailor]

Just purchase 150 Swift A frames for my .375 H&H for next years Buff hunt. Starting to work up a load to see what my Bruno 602 really likes. The 300 softs are my PH's recommendation. So that is what we have. Already saw two dagga boys that my PH was excited to see.

 

[mdwest]

you wont go wrong with A-Frames..

I am a Barnes guy.. but I shot my buff with a 300gr A-Frame (was using my PH's 375 H&H rather than my own).. it performed flawlessly... my wife also shot her buff cow with a 300gr A-Frame... again, flawless performance..

 

[grand veneur]

@Daisy

grand veneur said:
458 500gr Hornady Interbond bullets / Buffalos
View attachment 557123Those look awful. Blown apart with poor weight retention.

I shot over 15 buffalos with this type of bullet. Then there are a few buffaloes that were shot with classic FMJ bullets of various calibers, some even with the old thin-walled bullet from RWS of caliber 10,75x68. All of this worked well, but perhaps it was also due to the caliber of the cartridges that I used. I have shot very few buffaloes with so-called premium bullets, meaning BarnesTSX oder Swift A-Frame. For the last few years I loaded the cartridge 460 WBY-Magnum with the Woodleigh 500gr PP bullet, whether that is a premium bullet or not, I don't know, but worked on a buffalo.

Sure, if you use cartridges for Big Game hunting that were originally intended for something else, certainly you have to put more value on the bullets. I had to discover this myself in the few cases where I had to shoot a buffalo with the cartridge 375 H&H Magnum.

 

[grand veneur]

9,3mm 19g DWM FMJ bullet / Buffalo shot with the cartridge 9,3x74R

And finally the best,

7,62x39mm 122gr Kalashnikov 57N231 bullet / from the skull of a buffalo that I shot years ago in the Caprivi on the border of Angola and that had a healed, serious eye injury on one side. The bullet lay in a hole in the bone.

 

[F. Vaccaro]

Actually the Danish lead ban is max. 1%, which makes it even more stupid.
We cannot use normal brass bullets for hunting anymore as ”turning quality” brass typically contains about 2% lead.
We have used pure lead for hundreds of years and reducing that to 2% is still not good enough.
My own government even exceeds the EU in stupidity.
I am speechless..

Nobody, but nobody, will beat our blue states for stupidity!

 

[K95]

Nick here in Australia shot over 160 Buff with the simple 300 gr Hornady solid, no complaints with that bullet.

 

[Daisy]

Nick here in Australia shot over 160 Buff with the simple 300 gr Hornady solid, no complaints with that bullet.

Seems to strengthen the point not to use a bullet known to fragment and not penetrate.

TSX is basically a solid that also spreads

 

[Sideshow]

@Sideshow
What caliber and what speed.
I find the SSTs expand the same under 3,000fps.
Bob
View attachment 557120
150gn 308 SST 2,900fps
80 plus kg pig.
Bob

7x57 using imr 4451 47gr. not sure what speeds I’m getting but we’ll happy with the accuracy.

 

[grand veneur]

F.l.t.r., .458 500gr Hornady FMJ, .458 500gr Hornady Interbond, .440/11,2mm 401gr Woodleigh RN SN

I once used with the cartridge 11,2x72 Schüler the 11,2mm Woodleigh 401gr SP bullet to shot a buffalo. Although it broke up in the animal's body, it killed it. I was able to observe the same thing with the cartridge 10,75x68 and the .423/10,75mm RWS 22,5g FMJ bullet on two buffalos. Such bullets are certainly no more suitable nowadays for buffalo hunting, let alone elephant hunting. I never used bullets like that again.

A .458 500gr Hornady FMJ bullet recover from an elephant. The bullet has deformed and the lead core partially jut out. I could not observe the same thing with the .510 535gr Woodleigh FMJ bullets with which I shot some elephants.

As far as the mentioned bullet from Woodleigh is concerned, the jacket of this bullet broke once after I gave the final shot a buffalo with my rifle caliber 12,7x70 Schüler at very short distance. I sent the bullet to Woodleigh and they attributed the breaking to an alloy error. Premium bullets or similar can also sometimes fail. I still have stayed to this bullet and the company Woodleigh in general.