Why all the hate for CBL (Captive-Bred Lion) Hunting?

[CEO]

There is so much nuance in something like this. Hunting an animal that was bred and raised for the lone reason of being released, to shortly thereafter be hunted, will get the side eye from the vast majority of people. Make it a lion; one of the most epic, old Africa hunts imaginable, and that gives off a vibe of dangerous game larping (even if the actual danger is still there). Like Commodus acting out a choreographed sword fight at the beginning of Gladiator. It really is the perfect storm to garner hate from all angles.

A close example would be a post I read a few years back. A guy had a complaint about a deer breeder. He'd purchased some stocker bucks to be released into a small high fence so he and two buddies could hunt them. I forget what his complaint was about the breeding facility, but he was surprised when everyone disregarded his complaint and was laughing at him for having deer delivered just to hunt them in a small enclosure. Different animal, same result, different type of outrage.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

@Doubleplay - it is an interesting stance for SCI and they are very clear on their position against CBL. It seems to contradict their position on other types of put & take and High Fence hunting where they condone it and even give awards, medals, and keep record books for it….calling it “Estate” Hunting vs High Fence hunting…a carefully chosen word that means essentially the same. Boone & Crockett and Pope & Young will Not recognize any animal taken inside a fenced area and have a more strict defination of “Fair Chase”. As others have said it is “Up to the Hunter” to determine their own definition of Ethics.

I could be wrong, but from what I understand, SCI considers "estate" hunting to be on large properties with self sustaining herds as is common on Argentina and New Zealand. To my way.of thinking that would be very different than shooting a captive bred animal that is released into a smaller, strange (to the animal) property for the express purpose of being killed. Even completely free range animals will have a home range that they.live in.

 

[V.Veritas]

Now to going by laws.
Depending on when you’re hunting killing a antlerless deer not allowed by law.
One comes out with a arrow sticking out of it and is sick and started to rot.
Law vs personal ethics. I will pay the fine.
You do you. Ethics are personal. Not some standard.

You are bringing up an interesting perspective on the subject. Surrending the ethics of hunting in the hands of an organization (or a vocal self-righteous group of people) is never a good thing.

Remeber that people who hid Anne Frank were breaking the law. People who murdered her were obeying the law. The law is not always right nor ethical.

Fortunately CBL hunting it is still legal. Your own morality and personal ethics should be the deciding factor.

 

[Flbt]

Anti-hunters are created. Most are non-hunters are neutral until they aren’t. Participation and support of this activity turns hunters into assets for anti-

@Flbt - ? I don’t understand what you wrote?

@Flbt - ? I don’t understand what you wrote?

The point I was trying to make.
How do you know at any time if the outfitter did something to make a hunt easier that would go against your ethics.
There for you had to take what they tell you as fact
You have to trust they did right thing

 

[Rare Breed]

I agree that I don't think it's so much that so many people staunchly support it, as that they just aren't as adamant about having it cancelled as @375Fox . I think that many of us aren't as sure what to think about it, or didn't know as many of the facets of it.

I also think that some people just don't see it as the number one existential threat to hunting as you do (@375Fox) . And I'm not saying that in a negative way, quite the opposite, actually. I appreciate that you are a person who seems fairly consistent on your beliefs about all this stuff, even if I don't completely agree with you on every detail of the situation.

One area I do disagree with is that the anti-hunters will be most disappointed when it is banned. They will just switch to one of the other 100 styles of hunting they disagree with, and/or one of the other 100 animals too cute to hunt.

Bottom line it is up to each hunter. For me I loved my experience. While it’s great for each person to share their opinion which should be respected you cross a line when a person critisizes others for doing it just because they have a problem with it. I never ever like other people’s strong opinions to deter others from enjoying the experience. just my POV

 

[Doubleplay]

@Doubleplay - it is an interesting stance for SCI and they are very clear on their position against CBL. It seems to contradict their position on other types of put & take and High Fence hunting where they condone it and even give awards, medals, and keep record books for it….calling it “Estate” Hunting vs High Fence hunting…a carefully chosen word that means essentially the same. Boone & Crockett and Pope & Young will Not recognize any animal taken inside a fenced area and have a more strict defination of “Fair Chase”. As others have said it is “Up to the Hunter” to determine their own definition of Ethics.

It's interesting for sure, but maybe they saw how and where they are being raised like I did in South Africa.
I wouldn't shoot an animal hand fed and does not even know how to hunt or feed himself and released couple hours before.
But whatever floats anybodies boat, their money...

 

[Flbt]

You are bringing up an interesting perspective on the subject. Surrending the ethics of hunting in the hands of an organization (or a vocal self-righteous group of people) is never a good thing.

Remeber that people who hid Anne Frank were breaking the law. People who murdered her were obeying the law. The law is not always right nor ethical.

Fortunately CBL hunting it is still legal. Your own morality and personal ethics should be the deciding factor.

There is a term situational ethics
Killing is not ethical killing to save yourself is ethical
Canablisam is not ethical but it is sometimes to not starve to death.
Same action different ethical out come
ethics are personal not universal
But nearly every one wants to make there’s universal

 

[DieJager]

Remeber that people who hid Anne Frank were breaking the law. People who murdered her were obeying the law. The law is not always right nor ethical.

Godwin. You're out, sorry but those are the rules of the internet.

 

[Flbt]

@375Fox - I think you know Hunting and logic but you are unfamiliar with “Anti hunting” groups or overly optimistic that they share your logic & ethics. PETA, HSUS, Animal Liberation Front, etc.. only “pretend” to be against certain forms of Hunting and use the emotional word “cruel” to get the ball rolling. They ALWAYS switch targets after they get a “Win”. Maybe right now “canned Lion hunts” are getting the most publicity but next will be Elephants, Rhino dart hunts, Zebra etc.. there will Never be an End - only a New target. Once you give them a Victory (ANY Victory) they use that to brag about their success and solicit more donations for their “Next Crusade” (and there is Always another Crusade planned). Look back and see the success they’ve had with “Fur” - then the progression After that BIG WIN …they went after Leather (and are still going after Leather), they also have tried “Wool” and will keep trying wool — and of course they want to eliminate certain foods: Poultry, Veal, Lamb, Beef, etc…. If You want to appease them be ready to only eat Salad, wear recycled plastic, and live in a dirt hut…. My opinion is NEVER give them an inch !!

I don’t think you realize how crazy the animal rights nuts are to think the method of so called exploition of animals go with them.
Some of the peta nuts showed up to a cattle man’s meeting.
The meeting was what could be done about hoof and mouth and blue toung
The nuts were wanting the live stock to get sick from them.
They said it was better for all the livestock in the state to die than be used by humans.

I dont care how or what you hunt the nuts are all ways going to be after us.

 

[Flbt]

Anti-hunters are created. Most are non-hunters are neutral until they aren’t. Participation and support of this activity turns hunters into assets for anti-hunters.

From what I have seen animals rights actively seek membership.
They use what ever will get that person anti hunting for this one veal for that one fur for that one
Pets for that one
Livestock for that one
They tried to get my kid in college they told the fo cattle and hog got them into college

 

[375Fox]

I don’t think you realize how crazy the animal rights nuts are to think the method of so called exploition of animals go with them.
Some of the peta nuts showed up to a cattle man’s meeting.
The meeting was what could be done about hoof and mouth and blue toung
The nuts were wanting the live stock to get sick from them.
They said it was better for all the livestock in the state to die than be used by humans.

I dont care how or what you hunt the nuts are all ways going to be after us.

I think we all realize how crazy animal rights activists are, but they are a minority. I think very few are willing to accept the damage hunters do to themselves. It’s pretty clear there is a group of hunters here who like every pro-CBL post whether it’s true or not as long as it supports their position even when it can be readily confirmed as incorrect. If the price increases however they’ll have a different opinion.

 

[Flbt]

I think we all realize how crazy animal rights activists are, but they are a minority. I think very few are willing to accept the damage hunters do to themselves. It’s pretty clear there is a group of hunters here who like every pro-CBL post whether it’s true or not as long as it supports their position even when it can be readily confirmed as incorrect. If the price increases however they’ll have a different opinion.

Maybe it could just be price
Like I said I really don’t know about cbl
And I will probably never hunt one of anykind
It’s the ethical stance for me in this thread mostly

But the think is even if it’s stopped
Is it really? If one has the money to buy a pet big cat. Is anyone going to stop them from shooting there pet?
Go to any cattle sale barn around there a mounted head of a bull. Most here are longhorn or cracker cow.
Is it a head is it a trophy or what? The reason I brought that up. One owner has a watose mounted ( the African long big horned cow)
He said he hunted it. We all know the ranch/ hunting outfit where he went
Well most say - you can call that hunting if you want to but we all know that cow butchering on the range.

 

[375Fox]

Maybe it could just be price
Like I said I really don’t know about cbl
And I will probably never hunt one of anykind
It’s the ethical stance for me in this thread mostly

But the think is even if it’s stopped
Is it really? If one has the money to buy a pet big cat. Is anyone going to stop them from shooting there pet?
Go to any cattle sale barn around there a mounted head of a bull. Most here are longhorn or cracker cow.
Is it a head is it a trophy or what? The reason I brought that up. One owner has a watose mounted ( the African long big horned cow)
He said he hunted it. We all know the ranch/ hunting outfit where he went
Well most say - you can call that hunting if you want to but we all know that cow butchering on the range.

You’re going to upset the pro-CBL members. What you said is some of the reasons I’m most strongly against the practice. It’s marketed and touted as authentic hunting instead of just harvesting a farm animal. Very few outfitters are going to explain the cat was just recently released unless the potential client already knows and asks questions. Most are going to sell the tracking experience and avoid discussing anything else unless asked.

 

[Rare Breed]

I have and I also support those who wish to hunt a CBL.

To me my highest respect is for @Philip Glass and not the other high and mighty ethics’s rants who has taken a wild lion yet he respects others who can only do a CBL hunt due to cost. Any AH members who want to do a CBL hunt as I did hold your head high and don’t let anyone here on Ah make you feel less than an ethical hunter for doing so

 

[375Fox]

To me my highest respect is for @Philip Glass and not the other high and mighty ethics’s rants who has taken a wild lion yet he respects others who can only do a CBL hunt due to cost. Any AH members who want to do a CBL hunt as I did hold your head high and don’t let anyone here on Ah make you feel less than an ethical hunter for doing so

Is he not also involved in game breeding in Texas? Seems like a conflict of interest to be against CBL. If you can visit a lion breeding facility then hold your head high after the hunt go for it, but it appears most are refusing to acknowledge there are other aspects to CBL than the tracking experience shown to a hunter.

 

[Flbt]

You’re going to upset the pro-CBL members. What you said is some of the reasons I’m most strongly against the practice. It’s marketed and touted as authentic hunting instead of just harvesting a farm animal. Very few outfitters are going to explain the cat was just recently released unless the potential client already knows and asks questions. Most are going to sell the tracking experience and avoid discussing anything else unless asked.

Ok if I up set them fine.
It’s my out look on what he did with the cow
( being some one rase in the cattle business I can’t really see hunting a bull to being with no matter the breed)
But none of the cattlemen ever Tryed to make it where he could not ( hunt or range butcher)
If he wants to speed his time and money that way.

For me if I was going to spend the money he did I would at least want to shot the water buff instead.
But since he put the head in the sale barn maybe a tax write off? Any kind of free shoot and the feds pick up the bill might be worth it?

 

[Rare Breed]

Is he not also involved in game breeding in Texas? Seems like a conflict of interest to be against CBL. If you can visit a lion breeding facility then hold your head high after the hunt go for it, but it appears most are refusing to acknowledge there are other aspects to CBL than the tracking experience shown to a hunter.

We agree to disagree…you are very strong in your opinion which I respect but being you choose to be a member on AH you appear not to respect other members opinion opposed to yours and I find that offensive…just me

 

[375Fox]

We agree to disagree…you are very strong in your opinion which I respect but being you choose to be a member on AH you appear not to respect other members opinion opposed to yours and I find that offensive…just me

When someone writes half information or misinformation in a respectful way I still find it disrespectful to everyone. That seems to be the common trend when justifying CBL. As I said in an earlier post I’d have more respect for those participating if they openly said they support put and take and cost is their #1 priority instead of this game to pretend CBL is lion conservation.

 

[Quest#1]

Just make the list someone so we can all know and
Agree!

Next Let’s do hippo on land vs water, behind a fence or free range, baiting or not, fishing with lures or bare hands, walk and swim to africa or fly. Something

 

[LivingTheDream]

As I said in an earlier post I’d have more respect for those participating if they openly said they support put and take and cost is their #1 priority instead of this game to pretend CBL is lion conservation.

I don't cost is the #1 priority, I think that is a broad generalization and assumption you are making about other hunters. It might be for some but not for all.

For what it is worth your comment regard Philip was a little disrepectful and think you are being a little emotional about it.