Why all the 6.5 Creedmoor Hate?

[CoElkHunter]

If I could have only 1 rifle in a 6.5 it would be the original 6.5x54 in a 1903 Mannlicher Schoenauer rifle built before 1924 with no scope but. Lyman swing away peep sight. Load them with 160 grain roundnose and outfit the safari for pachyderms.

I've never owned a 6.5 anything. In fact, I just bought my first .25 (.25-06) a couple of months ago. Now this thread has my juices flowing for a 6.5. Since I already have a .300 and .338WM and plenty of brass, I'm thinking a .264 WM with a 1/8" barrel twist and 26" barrel. I might be able to shoot 175gr bullets out of it and would already have the brass for it? No reason for having a 6.5, but you guys started it! LOL

 

[Inline6]

I've never owned a 6.5 anything. In fact, I just bought my first .25 (.25-06) a couple of months ago. Now this thread has my juices flowing for a 6.5. Since I already have a .300 and .338WM and plenty of brass, I'm thinking a .264 WM with a 1/8" barrel twist and 26" barrel. I might be able to shoot 175gr bullets out of it and would already have the brass for it? No reason for having a 6.5, but you guys started it! LOL

The 156s Bergers killer if you can find them.

 

[clockwork_7mm_gator]

When the Creedmoor gets a little older and then gets replaced by the next super-hyped .264 round, lots of the people who don't like it now will start defending it.

Seriously, though, I think a lot of the animosity comes from established shooters who: 1) don't appreciate folks who were brought into shooting/hunting by the Creedmoor hype turning around and explaining how they can now shoot game at 600+ yards because the bullet somehow makes up for everything; and, 2) don't like how the wild popularity of the Creedmoor likely represents another (maybe the final?) nail in the coffin of the .260 Remington and pushes the 6.5x55 further behind on the factory production queue.

 

[Inline6]

I DO have trouble keeping the crosshairs in a 6" bullring at 300 yards with a 10x scope off my standing Bog bipod sticks especially with much crosswind? It's not too bad at 200, but at either distance, the scope is moving ever so slightly. I usually can keep 3 of 5 shots in the ring at 200, but not at 300. Shooting off a Harris bipod in a prone position for prairie dogs is one thing, but not practical for big game hunting unless your hunting in the desert. In Africa, I shot off my PHs tripod sticks. Better, but the scope still moves slightly and my longest shot was about 300 yards. Again, how do the 500-1000 yard shooters keep their rounds on target in a HUNTING scenario off sticks even with a 15x scope like you have? It seems with increased magnification it takes even less scope movement for the crosshairs to be out of the bullring and/or off the vitals of a big game animal?

I'm only speaking for myself, I have a really right stuff tripod. If I'm glassing I can lock my rifle into it. Also have CKYEPOD attached to my rifle. Depending on the rifle is the scope I'll run. I really like the 5X20 S&B, have also ran a 4x32 Nightforce. Overkill maybe, their 2.5X20 would not fit the long action I had.

If you want to get better at seeing less wobble, it takes practice. Their is equipment and techniques that help, nothing replaces practice. Standing off my tripod hitting 4" plates at 600 yards is what I have practiced in the past. Going prone we tried much smaller targets. Before I started a practice session I would always take a cold bore shot at distance. I would also find ways change it up, if you always shoot off your belly or bench. It going to be a long road if you take up comps or field shooting.

 

[Hogpatrol]

If you want to shoot longer ranges, a good, lighter trigger is a must. Pulling a six pound one on any platform, sticks, bags, tripod, etc. can put you off the mark.

 

[CoElkHunter]

If you want to shoot longer ranges, a good, lighter trigger is a must. Pulling a six pound one on any platform, sticks, bags, tripod, etc. can put you off the mark.

Great point! My triggers are probably way too heavy on my factory hunting rifles. The "pulling" on the trigger as the crosshairs continue to slightly move may BE my problem when shooting at longer distances. My PHs trigger on his Howa was set at 2.5lbs. and I shot a cull impala with it and it was very smooth. Mine must be at 4-5lbs on my Remington 700 and Browning A Bolt. No issue when hunting here at closer distances, but the longer shots at PG in Africa were a challenge for me. I guess time to change the triggers?

 

[F. Vaccaro]

I have to comment on this thread;

I know the two persons involved in the development of the 6.5 Creedmoor. Of course, all of this is published information available to anyone via a Google search. The person who dreamed of the 6.5 CM is a two-time national rifle champion. In fact, I shot with him on the Marine Corps Rifle Team long ago... He was a better marksman than I. Anyway, he knew and shared a room with the Hornady’s chief ballistician at the NRA/CMP National Rifle matches at Camp Perry Ohio. After a hard day chasing 10-X's the champion shooter commented to the ballistician that he wished there was a cartridge designed for the 0 to 600 yard "across the course" matches that would out preform the 5.56 at longer ranges, but not generate so much recoil that tires out a shooter after a 60, 80, or 100 round match. The days of shooting 7.62 Nato/.308 M-14’s and M1A’s across the course are long over.

The Hornady ballistician took that idea and created a cartridge for target shooting that does in fact have great hunting application. The cartridge should have been named after the shooter but instead he asked it be named Creedmoor. Of course, the shooter was at the time managing Creedmoor Sports which specialized in supplying equipment to match competitors. Maybe that had something to do with naming the cartridge?

In summary;
The 6.5 Creedmoor was developed as a target cartridge with hunting capabilities.
Hornady which developed the 6.5 CM, is in the business of manufacturing and selling components and ammunition. Let’s not forget that Hornady also has a large part in the re-birth of many nearly extinct cartridges for double rifles, and if I am not mistake, the .416 Rigby. They could not have done that without many a profit on their products. To make a profit on what is new, Hornady needs to market them as better than sliced bread!

My opinion;
The majority of us on this forum are pretty gun savvy and have more than a few decades of life and shooting experience. If you are like me, when I pick up Shooting Times, Guns and Ammo, or The American Rifleman, I read about the new developments with a grain of salt. Let's face it, my 30-06 Remington 700 Classic which I bought in 1982 will still kill any whitetail, mule deer, or elk on this planet. For long range western hunting, there may be better choices. Your 30-06, 270, or 300 magnum is probably much the same. We do NOT need another rifle within the power and distance range than the one(s) we already own. We do however "desire" what is old and classic, or newer and better. If one wants a newer and better 6.5 something or other, go for it!

THANK YOU !
I also believe it to be an excellent target ctg. & was designed as such but is also a reasonable hunting ctg. I hunt with one & love it. My Niece’s daughter has taken two elk with hers, one shot each.
I consider it a 6.5X55 in a readily available package.

 

[375Fox]

Great point! My triggers are probably way too heavy on my factory hunting rifles. The "pulling" on the trigger as the crosshairs continue to slightly move may BE my problem when shooting at longer distances. My PHs trigger on his Howa was set at 2.5lbs. and I shot a cull impala with it and it was very smooth. Mine must be at 4-5lbs on my Remington 700 and Browning A Bolt. No issue when hunting here at closer distances, but the longer shots at PG in Africa were a challenge for me. I guess time to change the triggers?

Yes, it’s time to change triggers! 4-5 lbs is way too heavy. It’s done for liability on American rifles not because it should be 4-5 lbs. All my rifles are set at 2 1/8 lbs because I can’t take lower without replacing the trigger. There is no accidental discharge at 2 lbs, gloves or no gloves, you still need to apply 2 lbs of pressure.

 

[WAB]

I DO have trouble keeping the crosshairs in a 6" bullring at 300 yards with a 10x scope off my standing Bog bipod sticks especially with much crosswind? It's not too bad at 200, but at either distance, the scope is moving ever so slightly. I usually can keep 3 of 5 shots in the ring at 200, but not at 300. Shooting off a Harris bipod in a prone position for prairie dogs is one thing, but not practical for big game hunting unless your hunting in the desert. In Africa, I shot off my PHs tripod sticks. Better, but the scope still moves slightly and my longest shot was about 300 yards. Again, how do the 500-1000 yard shooters keep their rounds on target in a HUNTING scenario off sticks even with a 15x scope like you have? It seems with increased magnification it takes even less scope movement for the crosshairs to be out of the bullring and/or off the vitals of a big game animal?

I do use a bipod prone or sitting on long shots. I use my backpack under the butt for added stability. I am very confident at 600 prone with my pack under the butt. If I have to be sitting I stand my backpack up under the butt. I’m comfortable to about 500 like this. For game, pull each of these in 50 yards (550 prone, 450 sitting).

These positions require time to set up. If I don’t have time, I don’t shoot.

I should be clear that all this work is for Coues deer. It is the only game where I stretch the range like this. And then, it is just what you need to be prepared for. You always get as close as the conditions will allow.

I have no idea how people get steady enough for 1,000 yard shots in the field. I have tried the arca rail on a tripod, no way. I asked my friend who authors precision rifle blog. He said that many of the guys run a sling from the rifle to their belt to create tension and stability when using a tripod. They also look for a tree to stabilize their trigger side elbow. A great point was made earlier, no matter how stable the rest, bullet flight time is just too long. There is no way to ensure that the animal won’t move in that amount of time.

If I were a sniper, I’m pretty confident I could put a bullet in a bad guy at 1,000. I am not at all confident that it would be a kill shot.

 

[WAB]

Great point! My triggers are probably way too heavy on my factory hunting rifles. The "pulling" on the trigger as the crosshairs continue to slightly move may BE my problem when shooting at longer distances. My PHs trigger on his Howa was set at 2.5lbs. and I shot a cull impala with it and it was very smooth. Mine must be at 4-5lbs on my Remington 700 and Browning A Bolt. No issue when hunting here at closer distances, but the longer shots at PG in Africa were a challenge for me. I guess time to change the triggers?

My long range rig has a trigger tech trigger on an Impact Precision NBK action. The barrel was spun on by TS Customs, one of the best. The trigger tech trigger is pure magic!

 

[Inline6]

My long range rig has a trigger tech trigger on an Impact Precision NBK action. The barrel was spun on by TS Customs, one of the best. The trigger tech trigger is pure magic!

Run them in several AR platforms. They are very good, my 22 I'm having built will also have a diamond 2 stage in it.

 

[Philip Glass]

Just curious, but why is the 6.5 Creedmoor so reviled? Certainly it has its limitations, but so does every cartridge. I wouldn't take a 22 LR for whitetail any more than I would take a Creedmoor for elephant (W.D.M Bell notwithstanding). That said, I came to hunting as an adult and my young son has learned hunting with me. When researching his first deer rifle, A Weatherby Vanguard Youth in 6.5 Creedmoor made good sense. Cheap, accurate, and loads of support for the cartridge. (I know a 6.5/55 would also have been great but price and availability were not good here). At 9 years old he killed his first whitetail with that rifle and has it accounted for probably a dozen or more by now. It is an efficient no nonsense killer of small to medium game and is perfect for where we live. I would think it would do reasonable service on small plains game as well.

We are point blank range hunters. I won't let him take a shot past 275 yards, but he has never had to. We can always sneak in closer than that.

We are not into social media and do not watch any hunting youtubers, so I'm out of touch with the trendy side of shooting sports. My preferences tend towards wood and blued bolt actions in calibers that Teddy Roosevelt could have shot, but the Creedmoor just works. My son is currently on an overnight hunting trip with a local Christian outdoor organization. They supply all the rifles if the kids need one, and they have a rack of Ruger Americans in 6.5 Creedmoor.

For all the hate, it seems to be a straw man argument. I know the Creedmoor cannot do anything that other cartridges didn't already do, except that the marketing and factory support have rocketed it to popularity so that it available and easy. Besides, which new cartridge has ever really brought a completely new capability to market? everything is to some extent derivative.

I guess I'm feeling a little self conscious about my decision, and I certainly don't want my son to grow a man bun. I doubt I have much to worry about. He is now 5ft 10 inches tall 14 years old and took his last two deer with a 45-70. Hopefully that will be enough to bring his testosterone back up!

It is great for kids and WT deer no doubt. It has just been over hyped so much and the "flavor of the month" has just rubbed some the wrong way. It is a marginal caliber for PG IMO.

 

[MS 9x56]

Great point! My triggers are probably way too heavy on my factory hunting rifles. The "pulling" on the trigger as the crosshairs continue to slightly move may BE my problem when shooting at longer distances. My PHs trigger on his Howa was set at 2.5lbs. and I shot a cull impala with it and it was very smooth. Mine must be at 4-5lbs on my Remington 700 and Browning A Bolt. No issue when hunting here at closer distances, but the longer shots at PG in Africa were a challenge for me. I guess time to change the triggers?

A little research may result in learning if they are adjustable. Browning newer rifles have an adjustable level trigger the Remington depends on age of rifle. Check it out. My 100 year old European rifles have double set triggers which eliminate this issue. Oh and they have long throats to allow longer bullet seating. Turns out gun makers 100 years ago knew what they were doing. Who wudda thunk it!!!

 

[JGRaider]

It is great for kids and WT deer no doubt. It has just been over hyped so much and the "flavor of the month" has just rubbed some the wrong way. It is a marginal caliber for PG IMO.

Yeah, that's why it's called Creedmoor Derangement Syndrome. For some it seem like these Creedmoor lovers picket their house, have kidnapped their kids, or held them hostage and waterboarded them or something. I could give a crap what someone likes to hunt with personally.

How many plains game animals have you shot with it? Just curious. I have a buddy up in Montana who is a gov't trapper/shooter/hunter. He's killed loads of game with is CM and 139 Scenar's up to and including numerous bull elk. And before someone chimes in with "but African game is so much tougher than American game...." Strictly speaking of plains game, I heard that many many times before I actually went over there and hunted. I've killed over 60 head up to but not including eland, and I've never found them harder to kill than anything else when the proper bullet is put in the proper place.

 

[JGRaider]

A little research may result in learning if they are adjustable. Browning newer rifles have an adjustable level trigger the Remington depends on age of rifle. Check it out. My 100 year old European rifles have double set triggers which eliminate this issue. Oh and they have long throats to allow longer bullet seating. Turns out gun makers 100 years ago knew what they were doing. Who wudda thunk it!!!

You can adjust a Tikka trigger with an allen wrench down to about 2lbs in about 5 minutes.

 

[MS 9x56]

You can adjust a Tikka trigger with an allen wrench down to about 2lbs in about 5 minutes.

Same with my CZ 550. My Mauser98 and MS 1905 take a jewelers screw driver to adjust the set trigger.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Just pull the trigger.

If someone can sit behind you facing the other way and give you some support, that helps.

 

[Inline6]

Just pull the trigger. View attachment 504010 If someone can sit behind you facing the other way and give you some support, that helps.


View attachment 504011

Careful you are going to break the thread the the brake on the rifle!

 

[Hogpatrol]

Careful you are going to break the thread the the brake on the rifle!

I think this thread has already been derailed.

 

[CoElkHunter]

For hunting in the vast deserts of Ethiopia and beyond, I'd have a gigantic muzzle brake on the rifle to let any poachers/insurgents in the area know what's what. LOL