Why all the 6.5 Creedmoor Hate?

But let's use another example, then. Why is the 7mm-08 Remington so widely accepted when the tried-and-true 7x57mm Mauser can accomplish everything which the 7mm-08 Remington can ?

Okay, I digress. 7mm-08 Remington isn't exactly "Widely Accepted". But it still doesn't garner anywhere as much hatred as the 6.5 Creedmoor.
Anything based on '08 in NATO countries is something you can reload based on free brass. And while it is probably forgotten, for a rather short period, there was a lot of interest in Silhouette rifle shooting. It was cool because so little high power comp really penetrates the hunting fields. And then it died. At least as far a magazine articles every third month. But if people learned one thing it was that the 7mm-08 was a really good long range cartridge with some hit. It is cultural.

The fact '08 isn't as widely promoted to death is why it isn't hated.

The Creedmoor just go beaten to death. People are tired of it. Anyone who wanted 10 of them, already bought them. And there is a cultural divide between the younger crowd that doesn't hunt, but likes to pretend they are snipers. Or if they do hunt, sure isn't walking to find game, or recover it. To site the typical prejudices. And the old crowd that remember how much fun it was, before they got glued to their Lazy Boys.
 
Gina, did you ever have a G.I. Joe "doll"? I never thought about it as a doll, but I had one and it came with accessories like a helmet, different uniforms, a semi auto Creedmoor rifle, boots, canteen, gloves, etc. Then if you got the Jeep for him to ride in, it had its own accessories like a Browning .35 Whelen machine gun on a tripod in the back, big tires, etc. LOL
Creedmoor my a$$
My GI Joe carried an M 1 Garand and ammo belt with hand grenades. Just an old fudd I guess, but I wear it proudly. I have shot the man bun and found it lacking for my tastes.
We know the Creedmoor wasn't a thing in those days .
I'd rather be an old Fudd than a Hipster.

Maybe, we can refer to the Man Bun as the Mattel rifle if Man Bun is going to offend.

@Hunter-Habib I'm not against the Creedmoor as such but I hate the nonsense and hype that people sprout about it or the inexperienced shooters who claim it beats everything hands down.

Horses for courses.

And as for the 7mm-08 I wanted one nearly 30 years ago and have had mine for 6-7 years.
 
All that tells one is that they are an easy sell. It has not much to do with the cartridge but the fact that it is set up to shoot the new high BC bullets. Then all the people jumping in just think, it is better than the Swede, because it has replaced it in some shoots, so there is no downside to pulling another cheap accurate rifle into the fold.

It is like what the 357 mag was on day one: One could get a 38 load to do the same thing, but the configuration spoke to an entirely different package. Stronger guns, more powerful ammo, and eventually +P rounds in the new guns.

---------------------------

And to be fair, there is a whole movement in the rifle space that has been pushed by the existence of the F-class (?), you can shoot an entirely different way. As a bowhunter, I have always been more a trad guy. But I keep aware of trends also. 3D comps completely changed compound archery. It went from janky crap that couldn't make it through a shoot without a failure to something equivalent to a British best gun: We got aluminum CNC risers, synthetic cabling, a leap forward in rests. I can remember buying different Cobra sights and every time I got pulled in by a new design, it fell apart. But today, all the gear is rock solid. And technique and setup was revolutionized. What with the sandbox, and F-class, almost all the equipment has changed. and my reaction to it is that it is less about rifles today, and all about every other piece of gear. You can actually get away with a rather cheap rifle (when taking it to the hunting fields). It is everything else that is better and more expensive. And the margin on accessories is higher. If you can sell a Creedmore, and convert, you have a huge dump of cash into the industry. The guy who buys a Swede, is probably not going to get sucked in.
 
I think this is an example of what irks people. The writer bends over backwards to somehow show that the Creedmoor offers some sort of significant improvement over the Swede.

He admits that the Swede has less recoil impulse, more versatility with bullet weights, and that the ballistics are nearly identical with similar bullet weights but still ends up voting for the CM simply because loaded ammo and rifles are easier to find. Well no shit, it’s easier to find because writers and manufacturers are promoting it like there’s no tomorrow. Which of course is a legitimate point for a shooter looking for a new rifle but it’s not relevant in a discussion as to which cartridge is better (“progress” as some here have called it).

 
This thread is funny.

I would never own a 30-06 because someone once said they killed an elephant with it.

Creedmophobics.

DB
Furthermore,
It’s common knowledge that the Rod Of Aaron, kept in The Arch Of The Covenant, shoots almond buds in the 30-06 caliber.

Grandpa says…
“Thou shalt not speak evil of the 30-06.”
Lol
 
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If a caliber feeds, if it gets 2750 fps or more at the muzzle and weighs over 80grs, I like it and shoot.
The 6.5 shoots well, feeds well, has predictable ballistics and seems to penetrate well.
What is not to like?
 
Yes, Doug. You're 100% right. I completely forgot that the .300 Winchester Magnum can accomplish an extra 100 FPS more than the .300 Holland & Holland Magnum with 200Gr+ bullets. That is a true advantage, especially for those of us who would like to use the heavier bullets out to longer range.

But let's use another example, then. Why is the 7mm-08 Remington so widely accepted when the tried-and-true 7x57mm Mauser can accomplish everything which the 7mm-08 Remington can ?

Okay, I digress. 7mm-08 Remington isn't exactly "Widely Accepted". But it still doesn't garner anywhere as much hatred as the 6.5 Creedmoor.
Standard action (7x57) vs short action (7-08). I have a 7-08 in a Mod 7. Short, light, handy. The 7"08 also fits in the AR-10 (uhg!) platform. I wouldn't own one, but a lot of people think they're great. It's the same reason the .308 came into existence to replace the .30-06.
 
OK, I will finally bite...

I have nothing per se against the 6.5 Creedmoor, it is a good little cartridge in the line of the 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schonauer, 6.5x55 Swedish, 6.5×57 Mauser, 6.5×58 Vergueiro (Portuguese), 6.5x50 Arisaka, 6.5×52 Carcano (Italian), etc. etc. ... all the way to the more modern .260 Rem.

But I live in Arizona, and I have very close relationships with a couple of outfitters in South Africa's Karoo, so here is what I hate about the 6.5 Creedmoor: I hate the cartridge being used for what it was not designed, admittedly though the stupidity of the folks who use it, rather than those who designed it.

Just because the cartridge can punch paper at 500 yards does not mean that it can kill cleanly at 500 yards, especially larger animals, it simply does not carry the killing power at the distance at which it can punch.


Back to mentioning Arizona and South Africa: in my direct experience, the Arizona mountains and the African Karoo, and I am sure many others places, are getting littered with elk and kudus punched by the 6.5 Creedmoor at stupid distances, because it is easy to shoot, but not killed by it. This is nothing short of criminal. There, I said it.
I agree with you. I think the 6.5 CM would be a great deer.hunting round for smaller, younger hunters and far superior to the .243 that has been used in that roll for something over 50 years.
 
I’d be surprised if the same model rifles using the same brand of brass with the same bullets in any of the 6.5mms had drastically different accuracy and terminal performance.

Short/fat cartridges have advantages in efficiency of burn but they’re not magic. The performance of the 300wsm was not dramatically different from the 300 h&h.

I see people attribute the 6.5CMs success to “progress” but we should be realistic. This isn’t a paradigm shift like the invention of smokeless powder. It’s successful marketing.

The 6.5CM is a fine cartridge and if nothing else, it’s helped reloaders get good bullets for the old cartridges. But given the same advantages of modern bullets and powder, the old cartridges don’t really give anything up.
How many sub .25 moa groups have you shot with a 6.5X55? I'm not 100% sure our definition of accuracy are the same.

Modern cartridges utilizing 30° + shoulders in my experience tend to shoot tighter groups more consistently. Yes 20° for 308, 260, 7-08, 243 etc. Do shoot well, they are just not holding records. The 6BRA held the 600 yard record (I think it still does). Point being modern design of cartridges are producing better accuracy.

Now for the argument of hunting, I'm sure most are okay with 1 MOA of accuracy. It will do the job at the distance most people shoot. It does not work for me. I want to be confident it my ammo and rifle.

Are we splitting hairs, sure. Does it really matter, I don't think so. People have free will to do what makes them happy. Neither is wrong. What does both me, people complaining that ammo manufacturers actually want to make money, same way with rifle manufacturers. If new stuff is not made, they would go out of business. It is simple supply and demand.
 
Hey don't down play the 243 or other 6mm around the same power they lay the smack down on deer and will shoot flatter then most magnums
I've never shot anything so h a .243 myself, but I have fallowed up on animals others have shot. Not impressed. What magnums do you think the .243 shoots flatter than? With 100 grain bullets it does not even shoot flatter than the .30-06 with 150 grain bullets and the '06 gets there with a lot more horse power. I will admit that the .243 shoots much flatter than my .458 WM, but I'm not going to hunt cape buffalo with one.
 
I've never shot anything so h a .243 myself, but I have fallowed up on animals others have shot. Not impressed. What magnums do you think the .243 shoots flatter than? With 100 grain bullets it does not even shoot flatter than the .30-06 with 150 grain bullets and the '06 gets there with a lot more horse power. I will admit that the .243 shoots much flatter than my .458 WM, but I'm not going to hunt cape buffalo with one.
Not sure where you are getting your information.

150gr 30-06 going 3200fps is dropping 45.71" with 1203ftlb @ 500 yards and 105gr 243 going 3250fps is dropping 30.2" with 1319ftlb @ 500 yards.

I'm sure both can be pushed a little harder. This is safe and warm I would say.
 
Wow.

You're pretty sick. Maybe Tylenol or some Mydol??

I have to ask, have you ever shot anything in 6.5CM? If not, you're opinion is simply that. I think Hunter Habib said it best. Our parents didn't like our choices, and we don't like the next generations choices. However, without trying it, we are the ignorant ones.

I hesitated a long time before trying the 6.5CM. A very good friend, who has taken more mammals than most recommended it. I tried it, and yup, it works. We've taken (several) wild boar, white tail and yes, elk with this cartridge.

Now, we practice shot placement - aim small, miss small. All of them have been 1 shot drops. We had an instance where the wild boar was a 2 fer. Shot hit the primary, killed it, passed through, and killed the secondary.

I'm really happy that people are interested in shooting this round, and shooting in general. Call it what you want, think about it how you will, but until you actually use it, STFU.
Hello CraigV,

I must be sick as well.
But, I promise to press my bandana over my air holes, when I sneeze.

Anyway, I’ve shot two Polynesian boar and one whitetail doe with one shot each from two different brands of borrowed 6.5 Creedmoor rifles (Ruger and Remington).
All 3 critters were taken with Hornady factory loaded 140 gr spitzers.
These were the ones with lead core and a plastic thingy in the tip.
Predictably, those rifles in that caliber did EXACTLY the same thing as my CZ 550 in 6.5x55 would’ve done —> bangdead.
So I have to conclude that specifically for my needs, the new Creedmoor cartridge does absolutely nothing new or better, nothing.

Be that as it may, progress is generally speaking, not a bad thing, (particularly in the Medical profession).
However, some people seem to mistake sales gimmick for progress.
Apparently a large percentage of these “new is always better” types are easily swayed and quickly enamored with anything and everything that’s new.
No offense intended, that is simply an observation, not a cheap shot.

I suppose it’s easy for the “new is always better” folks to snap judge people who like myself, are not easily influenced and way not easily fooled.
And, I suppose it’s easy to lump us “show me” types into the elderly category.
Indeed I am old, almost fossilized actually.
However, my age has absolutely nothing to do with my resistance toward sales gimmicks.
Even when I was young, if someone could not show me an advantage to their latest product, compared to what I already had, it was always a no sale.
I’ve been like this a mighty, mighty long time.

One Example:
When I was in high school (a couple hundred years ago), CCI ammunition company marketed a version of their .22 Long Rifle “Mini-Mag” ammunition as having an “internal belt”.
Even at my then tender age, I thought, “Wow, what nitwit will fall for that reduced-powder-space sales gimmick” ?
Lo & behold, my best friend and regular hunting - fishing partner, fell for it.
Upon firing up a box of 50 rounds, he sheepishly admitted, “They gypped me, because these expensive Faulkers only shoot like regular .22 shells do” or, words to that affect.
My response was something like, “well, duh”.

Don’t worry folks, I’m running out of steam here so, my rant will end soon.

At the risk of mistaking what other “show me” people are thinking, we don’t begrudge makers and retailers for bringing out new products.
Specifically myself, I don’t even mind all their “glittering generalities” (aka: lies), in trying to sell to me their latest products.
What offends me and people like me is the fact that with No Warning At All, they suddenly stop production of the ammunition we need.
This, so that they can run their ammunition loading factories round the clock, flooding the market with their does-nothing-different new cartridge.

Too bad they can’t first, briefly flood the market, with whatever well established cartridge they decide to kill and announce their intentions to us consumers, BEFORE killing off whatever it is each time.
That way, we could at least buy the estimated amount of cartridges we will need to last us as long as we think we will be using them.

As far as shooting super tiny 5 shot, one hole groups in paper at name your distance, and / or hitting very small targets at 1,000 yards, most hunters, myself included, don’t care about that …….. not even a little bit.
However, Bryan Smith of South Africa was doing both of those things with his 6.5x55 in the global rifle shooting competition scene, (until tragically killed on his farm, by a buffalo stud bull that was corralled to be vaccinated).
So, all this talk of the Creedmoor 6.5 being more accurate than its 100+ year old ballistic twin is simply not so.

I predict that, if - name your manufacturer - made a batch of otherwise identical rifles, except that half of them were chambered in the new 6.5 cartridge and the other half of them in the century plus old original version, all would show essentially the same accuracy.

Anyway, rant over.
Cheers,
Velo Dog

PS:
What’s all this latest trend with square toed cowboy boots these days ?:ROFLMAO:
Sheesh.
 
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I hate what winchester did with the 350 legend when it came out they pretty much lied about everything possible for that round. A good family friend who is a big 351 win guy tried one out and didn't like it, that was all I needed to not want one. The 360 buckhammer although it's clearly trying to sell the cartridge with its name seems much more humble in its advertising even tho there's not much out there anyway.
 

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I'm headed your way in January.

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