Who reloads.....and why?

[Spooksar]

I have replied in the past, I started in 1972 and now reload for 300 rifles and handguns. I have 7 Wildcat cartridges, quite a few obsolete cartridges, and a few European cartridges such as the 8.5x53 and the 9.3x64 that are impossible to find in Northern Alberta. I have 4 bench presses RCBS Rockchucker, RCBS 50 cal, Redding
T 7 and a Dillon 550. Also a Lee Handpress to use at the range.

 

[Hearties]

It beats watching TV and helps me deal with my OCD...

 

[JimP]

I've been reloading since the mid 70's.

The main reason is that it is a lot cheaper than shooting factory rounds. Instead of paying $5.00 a round I can shoot the same round for a $1.00 in my rifles.

That along with being able to load different bullets is a big plus.

As for accuracy, it used to be true that you could get better results with hand loads but now days you can find factory rounds that are just as good as hand loads.

 

[Bonk]

I've been a certified gun nut since I was about 10 but I never gave ammunition cost much thought. It cost what it cost. Several years ago two things changed that. First, we bought some acreage out in the sticks and now I shoot at least one rifle/pistol/shotgun almost every day. Second, I became interested in cowboy action shooting and started shooting a LOT of 45 Colt. I don't care how well heeled you are (I'm not) $80 @ day to shoot just 100 rounds of practice gets old quick.

I did the math and concluded that if I bought a Dillon 550, all the necessary accoutrements, and enough components to load 2000 rounds I'd break even. After that I could shoot as much as I wanted for about .18 a round. That's precisely what happened. I can now shoot 100 rounds for about $18 vs $75-80 for store bought cowboy ammo.

What I did not expect was my developing interest in big bore rifles and classic calibers. Even if I was willing to pay whatever they were asking I can't run down to the local gun shop or big box store and pick up some 9.3x62, 300H&H, 9.3x74, etc. Even what AH members would consider 'normal' calibers like 7x57, 375H&H or 416 Rem are tough to find or ridiculously expensive. Don't even think about something like 505Gibbs or 470Nitro. The worst I saw was a box of 416 Rigby that was priced at $276 for a box of 20 rounds.

Although I have dies and components I don't usually reload for stuff I can buy locally and cheap (9mm, 40S&W, 30-30, 30-06, etc). $12-15 for pistol ammo and $18-20 for rifle ammo doesn't motivate me to reload for those calibers. I reload primarily for big, weird, expensive rifle calibers or pistol calibers that I shoot a lot of (45 Colt & 45ACP).

I'm a hunter more than an absolute accuracy shooter. Don't get me wrong I like an accurate rifle as well as the next guy but my idea of accuracy is hunting accuracy. If my hunting rifles shoot comfortably under 2 MOA I'm good. In my experience modern rifles in common calibers will do that with factory ammo. I've a got a box stock Ruger 25-06 that shoots 2" groups at 300 yards with Hornady Whitetail ammo. I doubt I could match that if I reloaded and why bother when I can buy that ammo for under $20 a box?

Others have mentioned it but one huge appeal of reloading is being able to bring out the best of calibers like 7x57. There's a LOT of room between SAAMI max and reality with that caliber in a modern rifle.

I'm probably in the minority but I don't find reloading to be particularly enjoying or relaxing. I don't hate it or even dislike it. It's just a part of being an avid gun enthusiast. I like it better than gun cleaning though. I'm not a fan of that at all. IMO gun cleaning is just a necessary chore. I know plenty of folks claim it's relaxing, zen, etc, etc. Not me. I do it because it needs doing and that's about it. YMMV.

Great thread.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

A beam scale as opposed to a digital scale. The beam scale I started out with about 40 years ago is still giving excellent service and will see me out. I tried a digital for short time but it sit under the bench now.

One thing to keep in mind when setting up the FLS (full length sizing) die is that set down to the shell holder as is often recommended can over size the case. It is better to set the die to suit your chamber or the oversizing can start to stretch the cases and cause short brass life.

Von Gruff
I usually set my FLS dies the thickness of an Australian 5 cent coin off the shell holder until I need to bump the shoulder back a bit. Then I screw the die in a,little bit at a time until it chambers again.
Cheers mate Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I started reloading back in the late 70s because I'm basically a tight arse. Ammo was dear and wages weren't that good so it was reloading or no shooting.
Now I'm a,rifle Looney with wildcats that I can't buy factory ammo for and I load for calibers that are still loaded by the factory to low levels. I bring them kicking and sceaming into 21st century real world velocities. I like to get better velocity and accuracy as a result.
I'm still a tight arse after over 40 years as I refuse to pay $90 a box of 444 marlin ammo. The only factory ammo I've bought in years is 22 rimfire and my mates reckon if I could find a way to reload it I would imagine that tight.
Cheers everyone and keep on SAFELY RELOADING
Bob Nelson

 

[CAustin]

Just started down this path. Simply put I bought a bunch of big bore rifles and I don’t want to spend big bucks buying ammo.

 

[Tgood1]

Can any of you recommend any books or starter kits for someone to get started with reloading?

I bought a reloading kit from a patient years ago for a dedicated press serupnfor a pet rifle. The book was included. It's a great step by step introduction in my feeble opinion

 

[Frederik]

In South Africa you basically need to reload if you want to shoot a bunch especially larger calibers.
Although premium ammo are much easier to find these days it is expensive. I enjoy reloading good past time and with the exception of .22 ammo and 9mmP on special I have not bought any ammo for the last 27 years since I started to reloading. If I had a shotgun I suppose I would buy ammo for that also as it is not so expensive to buy either.

It is just much more rewarding to bag you animals with ammo you have made yourself and you can custom your ammo for you own rifles. With the lockdown I coukd indulge in a lot of reloading it was fun when it lasted.

 

[Alistair]

I'm surprised how many on here actually enjoy reloading to be honest.

For me, it's a necessary evil. Like managing my portfolio or going to the gym. I like the end benefits, it's better than sitting around bored and it carries a degree of satisfaction, but I can't say I have any love for the process itself.

 

[Major Khan]

When I 1st commenced hunting regularly in 1959... I would use 2.5 inch Eley Grand Prix spherical ball cartridges in my old Belgian shot gun .

However , as can clearly be seen ... the Eley Grand Prix spherical ball cartridges were what we refer to as " Low Brass " cartridges . In other words , the charge of powder was too low to reliably drive the 1 ounce spherical lead ball with a velocity adequate enough to properly penetrate through anything larger than a kakar deer . So , I knew that I had to get innovative .

I would take an Eley Grand Prix spherical ball cartridge and remove the spherical ball bullet from it . Then , I would take a 3 inch Eley Alphamax magnum " High Brass " BB cartridge and remove the BB shot from it . Then , I would load the spherical ball bullet in to the 3 inch Eley Alphamax magnum " High Brass " cartridge and treat it with wax . Suddenly , the velocity had improved greatly .

Of course , after 1970... Eley had stopped manufacturing spherical ball cartridges . So , I was driven out of necessity ... to start learning how to mould my own spherical ball bullets . I also began to experiment with other shot gun cartridges which had even higher " Brass " .

I learnt that the bullet should actually be a 16 Bore spherical lead ball ... so as to easily pass through the fully choked barrel of my 12 Bore " Old Belgian ".

Eventually , I began to realize ... that I actually enjoy hand loading cartridges ! As the years went by ... I commenced helping my friends hand load cartridges for their rifles and shot guns on a regular basis .
And here , we are.
I also learnt that for some calibres ... factory loaded ammunition will just not make the cut ( at the moment , anyway ) . Take the 7×57 mm Mauser calibre , for instance.

Virtually ALL brands who produce factory loaded ammunition for the 7×57 mm Mauser calibre ... tend to do do so with reduced powder charges .

While this is a precautionary measure against many vintage 7x57 mm Mauser calibre rifles ( using weak or worn out actions ) , still in circulation... it produces sub par performance.
The 7×57 mm Mauser calibre Winchester Super X soft point 175 grain cartridges in the photograph above ... are the property of my good friend and fellow forum member , @Kawshik Rahman .

While they are perfectly adequate for cheetal deer sized game ... they lack the penetration ability to reliably rupture both the lungs of a 300 pound Bengal Bush Boar . Hand loading these cartridges becomes a must if you wish to get the most out of your 7×57 mm Mauser calibre rifle ... and ensure optimal performance .

 

[Alistair]

When I 1st commenced hunting regularly in 1959... I would use 2.5 inch Eley Grand Prix spherical ball cartridges in my old Belgian shot gun .

However , as can clearly be seen ... the Eley Grand Prix spherical ball cartridges were what we refer to as " Low Brass " cartridges . In other words , the charge of powder was too low to reliably drive the 1 ounce spherical lead ball with a velocity adequate enough to properly penetrate through anything larger than a kakar deer . So , I knew that I had to get innovative .

I would take an Eley Grand Prix spherical ball cartridge and remove the spherical ball bullet from it . Then , I would take a 3 inch Eley Alphamax magnum " High Brass " BB cartridge and remove the BB shot from it . Then , I would load the spherical ball bullet in to the 3 inch Eley Alphamax magnum " High Brass " cartridge and treat it with wax . Suddenly , the velocity had improved greatly .

Out of interest Major, what were the claimed velocities and loads for the high and low brass cartridges from the factory? Also, did you ever actually chronograph the loads you made in contrast to the factory low brass loads?

I only ask because all the 'high brass' loads I've seen on the market today actually provide exactly the same performance as the 'low brass' loadings. In the UK, 'high brass' these days is simply a mark of 'posh' expensive cartridges with no real difference in performance at all, although they can possibly extract a little better.

Not quesitoning your findings necessarily, just wondering what real benefit you gained and also if there was a time when 'high brass' really did mean more power/velocity.

Cheers!
Al

 

[Major Khan]

Out of interest Major, what were the claimed velocities and loads for the high and low brass cartridges from the factory? Also, did you ever actually chronograph the loads you made in contrast to the factory low brass loads?

I only ask because all the 'high brass' loads I've seen on the market today actually provide exactly the same performance as the 'low brass' loadings. In the UK, 'high brass' these days is simply a mark of 'posh' expensive cartridges with no real difference in performance at all, although they can possibly extract a little better.

Not quesitoning your findings necessarily, just wondering what real benefit you gained and also if there was a time when 'high brass' really did mean more power/velocity.

Cheers!
Al

You ask an extremely interesting question , Alistair ! Please allow me to elaborate .
So , this is an actual Eley Grand Prix spherical ball cartridge . It has a brass length of 8 mm and the velocity is just above 1000 feet per second.

The spherical lead ball bullet could lay low a kakar deer , quite easily .

However , if you took the exact same shot on a cheetal deer ... the penetration would leave a great deal to be desired . And let us not even begin to talk about sambhur deer , Neelgai , Bengal Bush Boars or panthers .
Now , if you used a cartridge with " High Brass " ( which achieves a velocity of 1296 feet per second ) to propel the exact same spherical lead ball bullet ...you are essentially guaranteeing stellar performance on game far larger than a kakar deer .
For example ,
cheetal deer

forest panther

Bengal Bush Boar

or Buri Ganga river crocodile

Now , yes. When using ordinary bird shot cartridges for wing shooting quails , pigeons , doves , snipe , grouse , pheasant or the like ... " Low Brass " cartridges shall leave nothing to be desired . However , for propelling spherical ball bullets... the " High Brass " cartridges will definitely give the operator an extremely noticeable edge in velocity .
I have hand loaded these spherical ball cartridges recently . The brass length of the Viri cartridges which I have utilized
.... is a pure 20 mm .

I wholeheartedly concede that in modern times ... the significantly improved performance of modern propellant powders have greatly boosted the abilities of " Low Brass " cartridges .
However , for me ... a life time's worth of experiences make me invariably wish to go for the " High Brass " cartridges whenever possible . Especially for AAA cartridges ( red ) , or cartridges to utilize for the purposes of hand loading my spherical ball bullets ( green ) .

And please . No subject is ever taboo with me . You may ask me anything you like.

 

[Alistair]

[/ATTACH]

I wholeheartedly concede that in modern times ... the significantly improved performance of modern propellant powders have greatly boosted the abilities of " Low Brass " cartridges .
However , for me ... a life time's worth of experiences make me invariably wish to go for the " High Brass " cartridges whenever possible . Especially for AAA cartridges ( red ) , or cartridges to utilize for the purposes of hand loading my spherical ball bullets ( green ) .
View attachment 344622

And please . No subject is ever taboo with me . You may ask me anything you like.

Thanks for this Major, interesting stuff.

I think things might have moved on in this area though. For example, here is the standard game cartridge I use a lot in the UK:

https://www.eleyhawkltd.com/products/game-cartridges/vip-game

High brass, 2.5in (although my guns are 2.75 and 3in) and shooting 30grams of 6 shot at 1356fps.

By contrast, here is a 'budget' game load I use for pigeons:
https://www.eleyhawkltd.com/products/game-cartridges/pigeon-select

Low brass, 2.5in and shooting 30grams of 6 shot at 1356fps, using the same powder.

I wolud say that the VIP load patterns better for me, byt in terms of powder charge and recoil, I think it's probably the same.

Having looked at other English manufacturers (Gamebore and Lyvale), the situation is the same.

Personally, I like high brass, although mostly because it's 'pretty' and looks premium rather than any intrinsic benefits, although its noticeable that all th premium game loads continue to be high brass, probably for this reason.

I might itentatively suggest that the real deciding factor for your loads versus the factory loads was the 3" vs 2.5" cartrdge case, rather than the brass height? 3" chamber guns are proofed to higher pressures, so the factory 3" loads may well be hotter than 2.5" across the board, irrespective of brass height?

This link: https://www.eleyhawkltd.com/about-us/useful-information-&-FAQs/proof-and-cip

suggests that the 2.5" loads will run at 650Bar, whilst the 3" loads with their 'Superior' British proof will run at 900Bar.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

You ask an extremely interesting question , Alistair ! Please allow me to elaborate .
So , this is an actual Eley Grand Prix spherical ball cartridge . It has a brass length of 8 mm and the velocity is just above 1000 feet per second.
View attachment 344612
The spherical lead ball bullet could lay low a kakar deer , quite easily .
View attachment 344613
However , if you took the exact same shot on a cheetal deer ... the penetration would leave a great deal to be desired . And let us not even begin to talk about sambhur deer , Neelgai , Bengal Bush Boars or panthers .
Now , if you used a cartridge with " High Brass " ( which achieves a velocity of 1296 feet per second ) to propel the exact same spherical lead ball bullet ...you are essentially guaranteeing stellar performance on game far larger than a kakar deer .
For example ,
cheetal deer
View attachment 344615
forest panther
View attachment 344616
Bengal Bush Boar
View attachment 344617
or Buri Ganga river crocodile
View attachment 344618

Now , yes. When using ordinary bird shot cartridges for wing shooting quails , pigeons , doves , snipe , grouse , pheasant or the like ... " Low Brass " cartridges shall leave nothing to be desired . However , for propelling spherical ball bullets... the " High Brass " cartridges will definitely give the operator an extremely noticeable edge in velocity .
I have hand loaded these spherical ball cartridges recently . The brass length of the Viri cartridges which I have utilized
.... is a pure 20 mm .
View attachment 344621

I wholeheartedly concede that in modern times ... the significantly improved performance of modern propellant powders have greatly boosted the abilities of " Low Brass " cartridges .
However , for me ... a life time's worth of experiences make me invariably wish to go for the " High Brass " cartridges whenever possible . Especially for AAA cartridges ( red ) , or cartridges to utilize for the purposes of hand loading my spherical ball bullets ( green ) .
View attachment 344622

And please . No subject is ever taboo with me . You may ask me anything you like.

Friend Ponton
I remember a friend of mine had a Browning A5 humpback 12 gauge semi-automatic shotgun. He had to change the friction ring settings depending on wether he was using higbase or low base ammunition otherwise the gun would malfunction. He ended up using just high base to save changing setting all the time.
Keep safe and well my friend,
Bob Nelson.

 

[2400]

I'm surprised how many on here actually enjoy reloading to be honest.

For me, it's a necessary evil. Like managing my portfolio or going to the gym. I like the end benefits, it's better than sitting around bored and it carries a degree of satisfaction, but I can't say I have any love for the process itself.

I started hand loading with a Lyman tong tool in the 60's because that was the only way I could afford to shoot.

Then I discovered how much fun it was and how much I learned about shooting and ballistics from handloading.

It's been an enjoyable pastime for the last 50 years or so.

I know that there are those that do it because they have to but I've have never understood those that think its a chore or work. I've wondered how much effort they put into load development or if they just get a load that performs well and just go no farther with it.

 

[Newboomer]

I like reloading, handloading, for the variety of projectiles available for my calibers. I can tailor a load for a certain situation. It is much cheaper than factory and more fun to do it myself. I like to be able to control each step in the building of a load. Then to see all those shiny little soldiers standing at attention in the loading block gives me a real sense of satisfaction in a job well done. I haven't bought a factory round in decades except for 22 rimfire.

 

[Alistair]

...or if they just get a load that performs well and just go no farther with it.

I guess there is an element of this in fairness.

I've made my views on my approach to handloading clear in another thread, but for me personally, I'll go as far as I need to go to get the performance that I need for each rifle, then stop.

I don't really love doing it all that much, so once I achieve what I want and need, I'll call it good and just shoot.

Sometimes that's a really quick, simple process to get to say 2MOA for my open sighted lever gun, sometimes it's extended and involved to reach a consistent <0.5MOA in my long range rifle, but as soon as I get to that level of practical accuracy I require, that's it.

Out of the necesities of long range target shooting, I've gotten quite deep into the intricacies of reloading and dare I say it, become fairly good at it, but this is purely out of practical considerations, not out of any real joy it brings.

I think this is part of the reason that I find Benchrest so dull really. IMO it's more a game of reloading prowess, expensive kit and wind reading than actual shooting.

Al.

 

[Tanks]

...
I know that there are those that do it because they have to but I've have never understood those that think its a chore or work. I've wondered how much effort they put into load development or if they just get a load that performs well and just go no farther with it.

Start shooting 50K - 60K of handgun ammo a year and then see if you think it is relaxing.

With pistol ammo, if it fits my gun, accurate and at the velocity I want I am good. I have not changed my formula for years. 180 grain bullet, 4.8 grains of N320 to get me to 955 fps. I have automated it completely with an automatic progressive press.

With rifle ammo I am a bit more meticulous. On my wildcats load development is already done, so it is just a process of being very precise in powder measurements. Once a sample shoots to my satisfaction I do not chase it to go for much tighter groups etc., etc..

Now, back in the 80s when I use to compete in 300 meter Standard rifle matches, yeah much. much more meticulous in reloading. I retested after every new lot of powder etc., and made adjustments.

 

[2400]

Start shooting 50K - 60K of handgun ammo a year and then see if you think it is relaxing.

With pistol ammo, if it fits my gun, accurate and at the velocity I want I am good.

With rifle ammo I am a bit more meticulous. On my wildcats load development is already done, so it is just a process of being very precise in powder measurements. Once a sample shoots to my satisfaction I do not chase it to go for much tighter groups etc., etc..

I have shot 50,000-70,000 rounds year with handguns and used my Dillon 1050 for that. I worked up a load that was accurate and cranked out 10's of thousands at a time.

To me there is a big difference in precision rifle loads and accurate pistol loads and the way they are loaded.