Who’s done it? Cape buffalo or elephant with traditional large bore muzzleloader?

[50Gunner]

Yes, good luck DirtyHarry,

You may consider having the rifles barrels ultrasonic tested, UT testing, I bought a '74 Sharps rifle with a rung chamber, took it to lab coat guy, he x-rayed? the steel, told me it was not compromised in any way.

Shot the rifle that way for awhile, then sent it to JES up in Oregon, he ran a half inch drill bit throught the bore finding brand new steel and made me a beautiful 22 twist 50-90 Sharps that I later took to Africa and used to take a massive Eland bull and a beautiful old Blue black Sable bull, 750gr flat nosed grease groove bullets I cast myself with 16/1 alloy leaving at 1365 fps over 120gr OE 2F black powder done the heavy lifting.

In fact, we caught that massive Eland bull bedded in a shade, I squatted down on one knee and popped him on the right ham with the big 50 Sharps at 60 yards, he dropped his great head and never moved again, the skinners handed me the bullet from his left shoulder just under the hide, it nearly exited,, near 9 feet of penetration, expanded bullet mic'd .777" and still weighed 743 grains, so Yes Sir, these old rifles can get it done too, Lord knows the animals haven't changed from the way they were built in the old days.

BTW, had fun with PH's and that rifle, ""I CAN'T SEE CHIIT FOR THOSE DAMN SMOKE CLOUDS"" LOL

 

[Rosch]

Yes, those legends of big game hunter were using this hell of dust and recoil producing black powder muzzleloaders because ..... they hadn't anything else to go after ivory and meat to make a living.
If I understand their writings right, their lives weren't of a dreamy sort, it was quiet hard, sometimes harsh but mostly poor and as a bonus from the gods, damn dangerous. If the moskitos didn't get You infected with an african nightmare desease, the snakes did their best supported by everything which crawls and bites, producing nice infections, which were the most diligent killer then and the predators were waiting for a little mistake You made once. If You survived this everydays life, the hyenas met You sooner or later. Enviable, isn't it?

I really bet that everyone of those gentlemen would have fallen on his knees to thank god, if they had this mass of alternatives in equipment, the big game hunters have today. One quality bolt action in 458 Win loaded with 350 and 450 Premium Grainers with todays accuracy would have been all they would have needed and they could have done all their huntings all day long in the plains or the bushes or elsewere with highest success rate and best results with next to zero risk of life compared to those times. And I didn't even include here any optics.

So its again the old story, that some guys here think it would be real fun on walking in legends footsteps, turning the clock of life 150 years back, going to Africa and wound animals with unsuitable guns, loaded with uneffective lead balls propelled by aggressive stoneage powder to get the recoil of their lives out of a 4bore from this past and dark epoche to finally just wound?

If You wanna be a real sportsman, why don't You turn the time so far back when spears and stones where considered modern weapons and put YOUR live on the line when elefant, buffalo or rhino do have a real chance to show You who's the boss out there in the bushes??

I made up my mind with hunting in this everyday stranger getting world: I will use best components and hardware available to show my respect for other creatures live by doing everything possible to make damn sure that the animal, I'm hunting for, isn't suffering any unnecassary pain anytime.
Muzzleloaders won't met that standard.

 

[Sarg]

Found that Turner Kirkland pic from 1978 with .91 Cal ML & Elephant .

 

[Huvius]

…So its again the old story, that some guys here think it would be real fun on walking in legends footsteps, turning the clock of life 150 years back, going to Africa and wound animals with unsuitable guns, loaded with uneffective lead balls propelled by aggressive stoneage powder to get the recoil of their lives out of a 4bore from this past and dark epoche to finally just wound?

If You wanna be a real sportsman, why don't You turn the time so far back when spears and stones where considered modern weapons and put YOUR live on the line when elefant, buffalo or rhino do have a real chance to show You who's the boss out there in the bushes??

I made up my mind with hunting in this everyday stranger getting world: I will use best components and hardware available to show my respect for other creatures live by doing everything possible to make damn sure that the animal, I'm hunting for, isn't suffering any unnecassary pain anytime.
Muzzleloaders won't met that standard.

Sounds like you should get yourself a good large bore muzzle loader!!

You suggest that only wounding the animal would be the expected result - why is that?
A well placed hardball of 12bore or larger is going to traverse the chest cavity of any game animal up to elephant and an 8bore will brain an elephant.
I’d even wager that 95% of the PHs and clients whom have been trampled, gored, bitten and mauled in the last 60 years had the “best components and hardware available” yet these things can still happen.
Most game animals wounded and lost over that same period was given the same courtesy but that didn’t make them less wounded did it?
Sounds like the minimum for DG should be 450 class as the 375H&H just isn’t the best hardware, right?

The reason so many hunters choose to hunt primitive season and with traditional muzzle loaders is the same reason we like old houses, old machines (watches, cars, motorbikes…GUNS!!) and open spaces.

The experience of a hunt that somewhat approximates that of the Victorian sportsman is far more alluring than a modern hunt for many folks.
One could argue that utilizing the latest equipment moves one farther away from what the stalk and hunt is all about - sniping an animal at 400plus yards is not what I consider hunting - more “collecting” as they say.

All that said, the natural culmination of modern living is not hunting at all.
Painful as it is to say, other than game management, there is no real “need” for hunting.

 

[Rosch]

The reason so many hunters choose to hunt primitive season and with traditional muzzle loaders is the same reason we like old houses, old machines (watches, cars, motorbikes…GUNS!!) and open spaces.

So if You like that „old“ stuff, I respect that for sure! But what would You say if Your dentist would have the same love for 150 years old equipment and treats Your teeth with this „traditional“ tools? Remember, there were also no narcotis just a wooden hammer or if privat insured, some alcohol to cut out pain!
It‘s easy to stay on the save side of life and leave the hell for others!
Hunting ethics decide if our children will have the chance to live that experience of being again this hunter out of the past when wilderness was still all over and man could take their meat out there with pride and sense in their minds!
Playing with any of this ethics turns at the end the guns against us!!!

 

[Certus]

So if You like that „old“ stuff, I respect that for sure! But what would You say if Your dentist would have the same love for 150 years old equipment and treats Your teeth with this „traditional“ tools? Remember, there were also no narcotis just a wooden hammer or if privat insured, some alcohol to cut out pain!
It‘s easy to stay on the save side of life and leave the hell for others!
Hunting ethics decide if our children will have the chance to live that experience of being again this hunter out of the past when wilderness was still all over and man could take their meat out there with pride and sense in their minds!
Playing with any of this ethics turns at the end the guns against us!!!

So no doubles either, they’re largely used by people chasing nostalgia. Modern scoped rifles all the way?

What has happened or what have you heard/read to cause this attitude? Lost game wasn’t a huge concern when it was so abundant in the past (compared to now), I’d wager our ethics have improved. Yet still the front stuffers are used and work just fine. If anything they’ve gotten better than 150 years ago
Are you against archery season, per chance?

 

[Rosch]

So no doubles either, they’re largely used by people chasing nostalgia. Modern scoped rifles all the way?

I was talking about modern rifles, which includes in my understanding also double (rifles) made strong enough for eating modern powders and modern bullets in a shell filled with smokeless propellant, which actually was the basic lead for my post!
You can try to find arguments against all what I‘m saying, but I ask here just for some respect for nature and its creatures! You don‘t agree?
The way of „Making“ something dead decides, if You are just an backwards orientated ape out of a cave or a civilized gentlemen, enjoying nature and its fruits with compation, competence and ….. proper Equipment!
So make up with Yourself what is it for You out there?

 

[Certus]

I was talking about modern rifles, which includes in my understanding also double (rifles) made strong enough for eating modern powders and modern bullets in a shell filled with smokeless propellant, which actually was the basic lead for my post!
You can try to find arguments against all what I‘m saying, but I ask here just for some respect for nature and its creatures! You don‘t agree?
The way of „Making“ something dead decides, if You are just an backwards orientated ape out of a cave or a civilized gentlemen, enjoying nature and its fruits with compation, competence and ….. proper Equipment!
So make up with Yourself what is it for You out there?

A hole in the heart/lungs is a hole in the heart/lungs.
All hunting is, is poking a hole in something. Just like fishing is jamming a hook into a fishes face. Look at it however you want and justify your way to yourself. Others can poke the hole how they wish too.

 

[Rosch]

Others can poke the hole how they wish too.

No, others can‘t poke holes how they wish too! Those times are luckily gone by with hunting laws, who make exactly clear, when, where and how this can be done!
Your post shows, that You are generous in this case!
I hope for You, when it‘s Your time to go, the person in charge has more compation and doesn‘t sees it Your way! Maybe then its a good time to remember my words!

 

[Certus]

No, others can‘t poke holes how they wish too! Those times are luckily gone by with hunting laws, who make exactly clear, when, where and how this can be done!
Your post shows, that You are generous in this case!
I hope for You, when it‘s Your time to go, the person in charge has more compation and doesn‘t sees it Your way! Maybe then it’s a good time to remember my words!

No big game archery then either..?

 

[Lone Star Bluegrass]

A hole in the heart/lungs is a hole in the heart/lungs.
All hunting is, is poking a hole in something. Just like fishing is jamming a hook into a fishes face. Look at it however you want and justify your way to yourself. Others can poke the hole how they wish too.

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