Which Shotgun for buckshot ?

[ARHinAK]

Federal Flight Control buckshot with an open choke, so it doesn’t strip the wad from the shot, as others have already pointed out, is a very good place to start.
Pattern your gun to find out how far out you can get multiple pellets in an 8 inch circle. That might be 40 yards, it might be farther. Point is, find out. Once you’ve figured that out, Restrict Yourself to that distance. I’m sure there’s plenty enough deer running off with a pellet or two in the guts that we don’t need any more.

 

[flatwater bill]

Good question. I did extensive testing of BS and slugs in 2015-2017. Most of the published data on Buck Shot is anecdotal and suboptimal. No need to reinvent the wheel here. Take a look at YT and Bubba Rountree......his knowledge and testing of buckshot at range is an eyeopener. No speculation, just lots of shots and patterning at 60 meters..I think he has about optimized BS if one is using lead shot. ....his use of the Buck Kicker Choke tube prompted me to buy one...best of luck...FWB

 

[archer36]

I disagree with you. I've killed deer with one shot at distances exceeding 50 yards decisively. With proper practice and patterning, the shotgun is effective out to 100 yards. Beyond that I believe it needs to be a broadside standing still shot and your margin has dropped significantly. We've seen 2¾" 1B pass through and catch in the offside hide.
Patternmaster and Wad Wizard are wad retarding devices. They have very little constriction and instead have lugs that slow the wad so it strips cleanly off the shot column like Flitecontrol wads do so well.

Listen to this guy's advice. It is reasonable.

Not true. Choke does matter. This is a fin retarded wad. You can over constrict these loads and cause bad patterns. Cylinder or improved cylinder is likely the best bet with this load. I have a Flitecontrol load that isn't opening up all that much at all until about forty yards out of a 14" cylinder bore barrel.

As to the OP and a recommendation for a good patterning shotgun, I like non back bored barrels such as Remington or Benelli. I have had good patterns with the 1100, 1187, and Super Black Eagle. I have also use Mossbergs to great effect in the field with back bored barrels, but they generally seem to throw a larger pattern than the non back bored barrels. If I were building a 1000 yard shotgun, I'd use a Remington 1187 with a smoothbore choke barrel with rifle sights. The theory being that the sights prevent an up close complete miss as the pattern would be bore sized out to 30 yards and also allow for proper elevation at longer distances for a dead on hold.
Also the new Mossberg 940 with the sights and chokes is appealing since I do not believe it has a back bored barrel and has a long sight radius.

I live in a State that only allowed buckshot. In the last 15 years they approved slugs. Maybe back then it was not possible to kill effectively out to 100 yds as you claim. The ammo and chokes were not up to today's capabilities. But, I really think that killing out cleanly and routinely at 100 yds is a stretch. Do you know how much energy a 00 pellet has at 100 yds? Look it up and tell me it's good enough.

 

[MarkB]

Looks like I may need to buy and try a Buck Kicker choke tube, may extend my range 20 meters possibly, if it works with factory Rem buckshot, I do not reload shotgun ammo.

As above state, I am NOT ready or willing to shoot deer at 100 yds with any buckshot load, here in BC #1 buck is smallest allowed in shotgun areas. I still have not seen any 100 yd targets provided with multiple fatal hits on an 8" circle. Then lets use gelatin target to make sure energy and penetration depths are suitable for a 120-200lb BC deer.

Bubba states that he has taken deer out to 100 yds but I can find no practice or videos with 100 yds as range distance. Then of course it must be consistent for ethical kills. I would be willing to say that more deer shot at, at 100 yds with buckshot have run away with imbedded wounding pellets than have been ethically cleanly and quickly killed.

Maybe with custom components, reloading for specific gun and of course lots of practice it is possible.

Just not for me.

MB

 

[archer36]

Looks like I may need to buy and try a Buck Kicker choke tube, may extend my range 20 meters possibly, if it works with factory Rem buckshot, I do not reload shotgun ammo.

As above state, I am NOT ready or willing to shoot deer at 100 yds with any buckshot load, here in BC #1 buck is smallest allowed in shotgun areas. I still have not seen any 100 yd targets provided with multiple fatal hits on an 8" circle. Then lets use gelatin target to make sure energy and penetration depths are suitable for a 120-200lb BC deer.

Bubba states that he has taken deer out to 100 yds but I can find no practice or videos with 100 yds as range distance. Then of course it must be consistent for ethical kills. I would be willing to say that more deer shot at, at 100 yds with buckshot have run away with imbedded wounding pellets than have been ethically cleanly and quickly killed.

Maybe with custom components, reloading for specific gun and of course lots of practice it is possible.

Just not for me.

MB

Even if the pellet hits the target, the KE is pitiful.

 

[MarkB]

Even if the pellet hits the target, the KE is pitiful.

I agree, while serving in the Military we did room clearing drills with 870's and buckshot. Our reactive targets were man size and on springs that went backwards simulating "threat neutralized", this was worth points. I remember many times hitting target at 30 ft and not having target react correctly, one time when down on points and to make a point I walked up to target and engaged at 10 ft, = target went down.

Can't imagine at 100 yds. We did not use hand loaded special shot, only what was issued, Rem or Win 00 or 000 buck. Good job deer do not wear clothing as shot was often found stuck in cloths. Military got smart after some years, shotguns no longer in choice of weapons employed.

MB

 

[lockingblock]

If you really want performance, I would send it to Vang Comp. His barrels defy science and have to be experienced to be believed. It’s tighter than any choke, with less pellet deformation and less recoil, than any other system.

 

[Forrest Halley]

Looks like I may need to buy and try a Buck Kicker choke tube, may extend my range 20 meters possibly, if it works with factory Rem buckshot, I do not reload shotgun ammo.

As above state, I am NOT ready or willing to shoot deer at 100 yds with any buckshot load, here in BC #1 buck is smallest allowed in shotgun areas. I still have not seen any 100 yd targets provided with multiple fatal hits on an 8" circle. Then lets use gelatin target to make sure energy and penetration depths are suitable for a 120-200lb BC deer.

Bubba states that he has taken deer out to 100 yds but I can find no practice or videos with 100 yds as range distance. Then of course it must be consistent for ethical kills. I would be willing to say that more deer shot at, at 100 yds with buckshot have run away with imbedded wounding pellets than have been ethically cleanly and quickly killed.

Maybe with custom components, reloading for specific gun and of course lots of practice it is possible.

Just not for me.

MB

Remington Express buckshot is the widest pattern of any of the popular factory buckshots. I cannot fault you for not wanting to use it at great distance. Winchester 1B 3" and Federal Premium 3" 000 were the two best raw patterns out the 14" cylinder bore in my last expedition to pattern a shotgun. Federal Tactical Flitecontrol 1B was by and large exceptional, but has since been discontinued. It did not begin to open at all until thirty yards.

10" circle has been reduced to an 8" circle and you want gelatin tests done for you too now. Good luck with all that. I was trying to be helpful to someone fettered by hunting with only buckshot. I went through the trouble because I was hunting in small parties covering a lot of ground and shots were coming up long and I was tired of missing out on opportunities. Save yourself some money and stick with a factory full choke. At the distances you're comfortable shooting you'll never need it and it will likely cost you up close with a complete miss.

 

[MarkB]

Remington Express buckshot is the widest pattern of any of the popular factory buckshots. I cannot fault you for not wanting to use it at great distance. Winchester 1B 3" and Federal Premium 3" 000 were the two best raw patterns out the 14" cylinder bore in my last expedition to pattern a shotgun. Federal Tactical Flitecontrol 1B was by and large exceptional, but has since been discontinued. It did not begin to open at all until thirty yards.

10" circle has been reduced to an 8" circle and you want gelatin tests done for you too now. Good luck with all that. I was trying to be helpful to someone fettered by hunting with only buckshot. I went through the trouble because I was hunting in small parties covering a lot of ground and shots were coming up long and I was tired of missing out on opportunities. Save yourself some money and stick with a factory full choke. At the distances you're comfortable shooting you'll never need it and it will likely cost you up close with a complete miss.

8" or 10" kill zone on our deer is about right. As for the gelatin test I stated that for penetration tests, even at 30 yds some of the 8 BB's do not penetrate deeply from shots into muscle or bone. I wonder about the remaining energy and penetration at 100 yds from factory ammo.

The rain forest jungles here where I hunt, long distance is not available nor where I intend to hunt, what is important is dropping the deer, highway and private no hunting borders are very close.

In the end the OP asked about buckshot and what shotgun. We seam to be at opposite ends of the spectrum, I hope he gleams some valuable info from our discussion and most importantly patterns his gun with the ammo he intends to use to arrive at an ethical, killing distance.

MB

 

[Forrest Halley]

8" or 10" kill zone on our deer is about right. As for the gelatin test I stated that for penetration tests, even at 30 yds some of the 8 BB's do not penetrate deeply from shots into muscle or bone. I wonder about the remaining energy and penetration at 100 yds from factory ammo.

The rain forest jungles here where I hunt, long distance is not available nor where I intend to hunt, what is important is dropping the deer, highway and private no hunting borders are very close.

In the end the OP asked about buckshot and what shotgun. We seam to be at opposite ends of the spectrum, I hope he gleams some valuable info from our discussion and most importantly patterns his gun with the ammo he intends to use to arrive at an ethical, killing distance.

MB

Possibly. I feel like the long shots are the highly technical part and the close up knock em down shots are easy (3" 00B or 000B and 3½" 00B). I have hunted near boundaries of consequence. I do not envy you and appreciate your concern in anchoring the deer quickly much more so.

 

[rookhawk]

I will be changing to using buckshot for deer hunting is there any shotgun you have experienced that gives you the best patterns. What choke works best for you?
Can you tell any difference in barrel length?
Is the aftermarket cokes that much better?
I will be using a 12 gauge
Would it be worth going to a 3.5" gun?
I know these are questions that are opinions but I would like to here from someone with real experience

In my ignorance, I hadn't realized that there were any states left that allowed hunting with buckshot? If it were me, I'd find some brenneke slugs to shoot through your smoothbore. They are fantastic, proven accuracy with good stopping power.

 

[Sjakon]

My late father Julius Tahija shot this Sumateran tiger in 1972 with a semiautomatic Remington 12ga loaded with 00 Buckshot. He was running Caltex Indonesia. Fired two quick shots at the tiger but they only found 1 pellet which hit the brain. He shot everything with it including pigs and Sambar deer. He fought in the dutch colonial army which was under general McArthur’s command in WWII based in Australia. Indonesia which was a Dutch colony at the time.

 

[Finprof]

There are some clubs that require buckshot because they run large man drives in open woods with a couple of dozen drivers and a couple of dozen standers. There might be some areas that allow buckshot but prohibit slugs but I am not aware of any.
If you can use either slugs or buckshot there is no reason why you should not prefer slugs, particularly with the advancement in slug technology in the recent past b

 

[Hunter-Habib]

View attachment 500643

My late father Julius Tahija shot this Sumateran tiger in 1972 with a semiautomatic Remington 12ga loaded with 00 Buckshot. He was running Caltex Indonesia. Fired two quick shots at the tiger but they only found 1 pellet which hit the brain. He shot everything with it including pigs and Sambar deer. He fought in the dutch colonial army which was under general McArthur’s command in WWII based in Australia. Indonesia which was a Dutch colony at the time.

Do you remember what model the shotgun was ? And what company shells the gentleman preferred to use ?

 

[Inline6]

My best patterning shotgun for 00B, is an old Sears and Roebuck fixed modified 28" barrel semi-auto. It holds them in a pie plate to 40 yards. 30 years ago when does were allowed, it would stack up the deer. I took a head shot at a deer running away from me. It was 30 yards away by the time I pulled the trigger. 7 pellets went through his ear, the guy next to me killed him.

 

[Scrumbag]

View attachment 500643

My late father Julius Tahija shot this Sumateran tiger in 1972 with a semiautomatic Remington 12ga loaded with 00 Buckshot. He was running Caltex Indonesia. Fired two quick shots at the tiger but they only found 1 pellet which hit the brain. He shot everything with it including pigs and Sambar deer. He fought in the dutch colonial army which was under general McArthur’s command in WWII based in Australia. Indonesia which was a Dutch colony at the time.

I have the feeling that chap might well have been one tough cookie

 

[Forrest Halley]

There are some clubs that require buckshot because they run large man drives in open woods with a couple of dozen drivers and a couple of dozen standers. There might be some areas that allow buckshot but prohibit slugs but I am not aware of any.
If you can use either slugs or buckshot there is no reason why you should not prefer slugs, particularly with the advancement in slug technology in the recent past b

There are areas that prohibit slugs and it is buckshot only. Several southern states in US.
With Flite control wads buckshot has a new lease on life. I get some very nice patterns out of a 14" cylinder bore of all things. I think it's all about velocity. Copper plating and Antimony hardening have also done wonders for it. Look into Bubba Round tree Outdoors if you want to see how incredible it can be.

My best patterning shotgun for 00B, is an old Sears and Roebuck fixed modified 28" barrel semi-auto. It holds them in a pie plate to 40 yards. 30 years ago when does were allowed, it would stack up the deer. I took a head shot at a deer running away from me. It was 30 yards away by the time I pulled the trigger. 7 pellets went through his ear, the guy next to me killed him.

Nothing like quarter sized patterns at distances where you could use them. It's quite experience to have to let a deer get far enough away to have a pattern. I've missed a head shot and put a big hole in the ear. Thankfully I was able to reset the trigger and correct the mistake on the follow up.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I killed the first two of my three man eating Royal Bengal tigers with a 12 gauge (2 3/4”) Pakistani single barrel Sikender shotgun (which had a 32” fully choked barrel), loaded with Eley Alphamax 36 gram eight pellet L.G shells. Advertised velocity of the shells was 1120 fps and they used fiber wads. Through the fully choked barrel of that old Pakistani single barrel, those L.G shells could produce extremely tight patterns. At 20 yards, all eight pellets will consistently go into a 12” circle.

I shot both of the tigers in farms at night, while one of my forest guards was holding a six cell Maglite torchlight. In the beam of the torchlight, I could only see the two glowing eyes. So I aimed an inch below the eyes, in order to make an educated guess as to where the base of the chest was. The first one, I shot from the window of a bamboo shed on ground level. The second one, I shot from the top of a macchan. I shot them from such close ranges that on both the occasions, all eight L.G pellets had hit the tigers. But neither of them dropped to the shot.

I shot the first one at roughly 8:30 PM. He spent (at least) the next two hours circling the shed, while making gurgled growls. At around 10:30 PM, it started to rain. Now, my torchlight bearer and I started to get scared because we could no longer hear him. At roughly 3:30 PM, we heard the sounds of the man eater swimming and crossing the canal. In the morning, when my other forest guards came from the launch and we (my torchlight bearer and I) got out of the shed … we found the carcass of the man eater on the other side of the canal (right outside where the forest begins). A postmortem showed that six L.G pellets had hit the tiger in the front of the chest and all of them had flattened out like clay putty against the tiger’s rock hard chest muscles (without even a single one of them managing to get even remotely close to the heart). Two L.G pellets had managed to hit the man eater’s throat and had caused noticeable damage to the trachea and the blood vessels in the throat. Despite this, the tiger had managed to survive for at least seven hours after after getting shot. During this time, he repeatedly circled our bamboo shed and actually managed to cross the canal and almost managed to reach the forest before succumbing to his gunshot wound. The canal was 100 yards away from where I had shot the tiger and the canal itself was roughly 90 yards wide. So that means that the tiger must have crossed at least 190 yards before succumbing.

I shot the second man eater at 10 PM. After receiving the shot, the man eater disappeared from our sight. I ordered my forest guard to switch the torchlight off. Until roughly 2 AM, we could keep hearing the tiger’s growls. In the morning, when my other forest guards came from the launch and we (my torchlight bearer and I) finally climbed down from the macchan… we found the carcass of the man eater lying in a ditch; roughly 30 yards away from where I had shot him. A postmortem showed that seven of the L.G pellets had hit the tiger in the front of the chest and all of them had flattened out like clay putty against the tiger’s rock hard chest muscles (without even a single one of them managing to get even remotely close to the heart). One L.G pellet had managed to sever the man eater’s jugular vein. This had eventually caused him to bleed to death. But he still lasted no less than four hours after getting the shot.


What I wouldn’t give to have been able to face those man eating Royal Bengal tigers armed with my .600 Nitro Express (loaded with 900Gr Labor Fur Ballistik soft points) or at least a .375 Holland & Holland Magnum (loaded with 300Gr Nosler Partition soft points)…

 

[Inline6]

Thanks for sharing those experiences.

I'm sure today's buckshot would be better, none the less happy you are able to write about it today.

 

[ChrisG]

Use 000 3" rounds and an improved cylinder choke unless you want a specialized choke. Buckshot fired through tight chokes deforms the little spheres and they no longer fly true and hold a pattern. you will see a number of flyers usually if you are using a full or even more constricted choke. The reason police and military use cylinder chokes is to improve their patterning, not open it up. Still, Buckshot isn't legal in a lot of states for deer because it is marginally effective compared to a solid slug or rifle. I would still opt for a slug if all I had was a shotgun.... Just my opinion