Which Second Rifle?

[steve white]

Sorry (not really!) for reviving the thread... I have booked my safari and my flights, so my 2025 Springbok Slam + whatever else the gods send my way is happening for sure. Wheels up on Aug. 26.

Besides my beloved H&H single shot (the one in my profile pic), which will get the lion's share of the hunt also because it's turning 100 this year, the spot for second rifle will be contested among these three classics:

View attachment 664480

They are: Cogswell & Harrison .318, Mannlicher-Schönauer 6.5x54 (with pre-war variable Voigtländer scope) and Alex Henry falling block .450 BPE, my most recent acquisition.

The first two are proven tack-drivers. The .318, with the 200-yard leaf up, gets me right in the bull at 200 yards with 250-grain Woodleighs. My only qualm is that I only have 70 bullets left, and I don't see a way to replenish them unless I go with Hawk, which I'd have to sight in all over again.

With the Mannlicher, I almost feel like I'm cheating. It digests both handloads and 156-gr PPU factory loads like a champ. I have an endless supply of those gorgeous, parallel-sided Hornady Interock 160-grainers, which I push at a moderate 2,250 fps, and with this rifle I also have the benefit of a scope--although given its age it's not the absolute brightest!

The Alex Henry is the one I'd be most excited about, also because I'm a single-shot man through and through. I've posted on another thread that I'm facing the problem that, as it is, it won't chamber modern-sized .450 3.25" brass, but either with a custom die or with J.J. touching up the chamber and the extractor, I'll solve the problem in plenty of time for my safari. The only unknown is how it shoots once I can load it.

Thoughts?

Lovely choices! I seem to remember that there was someone at NECG or the like who could restore or solder on a new scope choice? Would have to disassemble it in order for the tube to take the heat. But then you would have an optically superior instrument...
OTOH, there is something to be said for "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and the MS already shoots lights out.

 

[AZDAVE]

Take the 450!

 

[alby]

Gotta go the .318!!! Beautiful rifle!

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

As much as I like the MS, the 318 would be my choice
Gumpy

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

With the Mannlicher, I almost feel like I'm cheating. It digests both handloads and 156-gr PPU factory loads like a champ. I have an endless supply of those gorgeous, parallel-sided Hornady Interock 160-grainers, which I push at a moderate 2,250 fps, and with this rifle I also have the benefit of a scope--although given its age it's not the absolute brightest

Thoughts?

Der Mannlicher Schoenauer.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

I would really like to find that optic/rings for my M/S. I would love to know your load also for that bullet as I have some but not an endless supply like yourself!

Consult New England Gun Works for 'German claw mount' MS setup.

Here is the blueprint for 6.5X54 (M1903, Y1903, M1900) Mannlicher Schoenauer:

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

I would take the 6.5.


Bell used a 256 Gibbs for his pot rifle. It’s based of the 7x57 if I recall.

Bell also wrote of using the Mannlicher Schoenauer 'for the pot' and spoke rather highly of its capabilities, even with dissatisfaction of the British produced ammunition available to him for it.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

My vote would be for the Mannlicher. Why ? It’s a pretty iconic rifle to use in Africa. Beautiful smooth action and 160gr bullets are good medicine for plainsgame. I admit to some personal bias.

Bias toward der Mannlicher Schoenauer?

I can't imagine such a thing (wink).

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

OH: While I don't disagree with your sentiment, how does one obtain "personal history" with a particular rifle unless he takes it hunting? Sometimes you have to invite a "new" rifle to the hunt in order to "make personal history" with it as well.

As with so many other life experiences.

 

[Clodo Ferreira]

Hi,

The .318 WR, by far!!!!

 

[Odinsraven]

.318.....how could you not

Indeed

 

[degoins]

After a couple years' hiatus from the Dark Continent, I am planning my next South African safari in 2025. On the menu is plains game--I want to do my Springbuck slam as well as hunt other species to add to my collection. Perhaps red Hartebeest, or Waterbuck, or whatever the Gods send my way.

The theme for this safari will be iron sights only. Any form of optic is staying home, save of course for my trusted Leica 10x25 binos.

As a first rifle, I'm of course taking my default H&H single shot in .375 H&H Flanged. I was able to find the correct Lyman tang sight that was originally ordered with the rifle back in 1925. And yes, the date is not lost on me. The rifle will also accompany me to New Zealand in March to "celebrate" its 100 years of giving joy to whoever uses it. Here is the rifle, complete with Lyman sight:

View attachment 616289

But which rifle to take as a second gun? The choice is between three that I am yet to bloody. Here they are, in no particular order.

Choice N. 1: Steyr-Mannlicher M. 1903 in 6.5X54 MS. I will use 160gr bullets pushed at about 2,300 fps. With this load, the rifle is spot on at 150 yards and is capable of incredible groups. It's one of the most accurate rifles I own.

View attachment 616290

Choice N. 2: P. Webley fine-grade double rifle, .450 BPE, which I will load with a 350gr lead bullet ahead of 52gr of 4198 and some dacron as a filler, which will perfectly replicate the original ballistics (1,850 fps). Being a double rifle, this Webley is naturally not as much of a tack-driver as the other two, but it's probably the rifle that fits me best. It comes up to the shoulder like it was custom made for me. Plus, it's gorgeous. Oh, and one more great thing: it's a double!

View attachment 616291

View attachment 616292

Choice N. 3: 1930's Cogswell & Harrison Mauser in .318 WR (.318 Nitro Express). This rifle shoots like a champ, and with the original load of 250gr bullet pushed at about 2,300 fps it's sure to drop everything in its tracks (provided of course that I do my job!). With the second leaf, it hits the 10 ring at 200 yards with a center hold. Trigger is super-crisp, and it's a joy to shoot.

View attachment 616293

Thoughts? If it were you, which of these rifles would you take along with "my" .375?

The Steyr-Mannlicher M. 1903 in 6.5X54 MS.......but any of them would suit me. Wonderful collection of classics!

 

[degoins]

Wow! Thank you for the replies, gentlemen! So far, the .318 seems to be the favorite by far, with the 6.5 in the middle. Surprised that there's zero love for the double--perhaps too iffy a caliber with the lead bullet?

Not at all.......the double has plenty of power. To me it came down to the others line up more in the same time frame from the past.

 

[degoins]

Sorry (not really!) for reviving the thread... I have booked my safari and my flights, so my 2025 Springbok Slam + whatever else the gods send my way is happening for sure. Wheels up on Aug. 26.

Besides my beloved H&H single shot (the one in my profile pic), which will get the lion's share of the hunt also because it's turning 100 this year, the spot for second rifle will be contested among these three classics:

View attachment 664480

They are: Cogswell & Harrison .318, Mannlicher-Schönauer 6.5x54 (with pre-war variable Voigtländer scope) and Alex Henry falling block .450 BPE, my most recent acquisition.

The first two are proven tack-drivers. The .318, with the 200-yard leaf up, gets me right in the bull at 200 yards with 250-grain Woodleighs. My only qualm is that I only have 70 bullets left, and I don't see a way to replenish them unless I go with Hawk, which I'd have to sight in all over again.

With the Mannlicher, I almost feel like I'm cheating. It digests both handloads and 156-gr PPU factory loads like a champ. I have an endless supply of those gorgeous, parallel-sided Hornady Interock 160-grainers, which I push at a moderate 2,250 fps, and with this rifle I also have the benefit of a scope--although given its age it's not the absolute brightest!

The Alex Henry is the one I'd be most excited about, also because I'm a single-shot man through and through. I've posted on another thread that I'm facing the problem that, as it is, it won't chamber modern-sized .450 3.25" brass, but either with a custom die or with J.J. touching up the chamber and the extractor, I'll solve the problem in plenty of time for my safari. The only unknown is how it shoots once I can load it.

Thoughts?

Well now that you've thrown the Henry into the mix, it could be a single shot trip with one from the black powder era and one from the smokeless. Man, I love those Henrys!