Which is a more "classic" African cartridge, the 303 British or the 7x57 Mauser/275 Rigby?

[The creed]

this just boils down to choice both cartridge are very effective, but if am choosing I'll go for the 275.

 

[pilar]

Bell did not use a 275 Rigby . But he did use a Rigby rifle firing the 7mm Mauser round . There is a big difference . The 275 Rigby fired a 140 Gr bullet and was primarily for stalking of deer in the Scottish Highlands hence the name of Rigby’s modern rifle . Rigby also marketed the 7mm Mauser which in Bell’s time fired a 175gr bullet . Rigby sales catalogues always differentiated between the 2 rifles.

I resonantly reread his 1st book , and yes he found the 275 rigby ammunition as unreliable and purposely sought out German loaded ammunition more reliable
Seems England’s ammunition manufacturers in most caliber where of poorer quality
Except in.303 , so he flip flopped between the two till he could resupply their ammunition.
He must of needed an enormous quantity of ammunition, to feed his native crew and their families and bribe the local people to obtain the local intelligence.
For a Scottish lord he must have been a heck of a good diplomat to hunt where the people were hostile and other hunters were not keen to go.
Fascinating person to understand sectional density and shot angle ( even from a airplane when he was in the Great War flying as a scout)

 

[Bonk]

I want to choose the 303 because I’m British by birth and I dearly love old school classic calibers but I just can’t do it. The 7x57 is about the perfect cartridge in my opinion. Obviously I equally like 275 Rigby but given a choice between two rifles exactly the same except for caliber I’d pick 7x57 over the Rigby. Why? I don’t know.

I’ve owned both 7x57 and 275 Rigby. Still own a M70 Featherweight 7mm Mauser.

 

[spike.t]

Bell did not use a 275 Rigby . But he did use a Rigby rifle firing the 7mm Mauser round . There is a big difference . The 275 Rigby fired a 140 Gr bullet and was primarily for stalking of deer in the Scottish Highlands hence the name of Rigby’s modern rifle . Rigby also marketed the 7mm Mauser which in Bell’s time fired a 175gr bullet . Rigby sales catalogues always differentiated between the 2 rifles.

From memory looking at the ledgers it was still sold to him as a 275 rigby....

 

[spike.t]

The simple answer is both...

 

[leslie hetrick]

well the boars liked and used the 7x57 in the boar wars and im sure they also used any rifles they could get, including .303 brit rifles. i lean towards the 7x57.

 

[PerH]

 

[Aaron N]

You’ll rarely find a .303 British built on a true hunting action like a Mauser 98—aside from the occasional double rifle, most are based on military platforms like the Lee-Enfield or P14. A proper sporting .303, purpose-built for hunting rather than war, would be a rare and classic find—something truly special for a collector or traditionalist.

That’s why, to me, the 7x57 Mauser feels more “classic.” It was used in Africa before the Boer War as a working rifle—practical, reliable, and respected. While the .303 carries a strong military legacy, the 7x57 was the rifle of choice for hunters, farmers, and game wardens. It earned its reputation in the field, not on the battlefield.

I mean, what was the M98 first designed for?

 

[Frederik]

Sorry I was too quick too answer all proper manufactured sporting rifles is bascially a M98 or copy.
Lee actions were never adopted much by the classic gunsmith for building sporting rifles.

 

[PerH]

I mean, what was the M98 first designed for?

8x57 I (m1888 commission cartridge )

244 and 224 grain .318 bullets .

 

[mdwest]

303 Brit was first fielded in 1888... the 7mm Mauser came along 4 years later in 1892.. both made it to the African continent for the purposes of hunting by the very first few years of the 20th century from what I can tell..

Both are prolific even today across much of Southern Africa among local hunters and PH's.. and pretty much have been since they first entered service (although I am sure both have long since been surpassed by more modern cartridges like 30-06, 308, 300 WM, etc in every country)..

I dont know that one is any more classic than the other..

Although I have to concede that Ive personally shot a good deal of game with a 7x57 (outfitters camp rifle), and have never personally deployed a 303 Brit on the continent..

 

[ACM]

“Mauser” over “British” any and every day of the week!

 

[Muskox]

I would not pick either cartridge when I could shoot a 300 Winchester or 7mm Magnum of some variety.

The 7x57 is a nice cartridge. Calling it 275 Rigby is like calling Bruce Jenner Caitlin. Not that he is gay, as he isn't he just isn't Caitlin.

The 303 is interesting, but the rifles are not so interesting. You could have a modern 303 built on an 1885 Winchester in Italy. If it shot well, that would make for a nice rifle if you like that.

A modern built Dan Fraser in 303 would be a nice rifle, but it would be a hell of a lot nicer rifle in 30 Blaser or 7x65R. It would probably work fine as a 30-06 as well. At least you can get ammo most places for the 303, but even that is changing.

A 150 grain partition or similar in 303 and a 140 grain partition or similar in the 7x57 would kill anything that walks on hooves in Africa. Both are slow by modern standards.

 

[Aaron N]

8x57 I (m1888 commission cartridge )

244 and 224 grain .318 bullets .

Exactly, a military rifle first and a sporting rifle later.

 

[Dirtdart]

The 7x57 is a nice cartridge. Calling it 275 Rigby is like calling Bruce Jenner Caitlin. Not that he is gay, as he isn't he just isn't Caitlin.

Like calling 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer a 256.

 

[BFaucett]

Hmmmm... The .303 British or the 7x57 / 275 Rigby?

I'm gonna have to go with the 7x57 / 275.

Cheers! Bob F.


How's this for classic?

Gail Selby
"Like Harry, his children Mark and Gail grew up in the shadow of acacia trees and within the sound of roaring lions. At the age of 14, Gail hunted an elephant with her father taking a bull with 50-pound tusks. On that hunt she used a Rigby .275 originally belonging to the legendary elephant hunter Karamoja Bell, and which had been given to her brother Mark by his godfather, Robert Ruark."
from "Harry Selby - An African Legend" by Joe Coogan

The photos of the rifle were not taken by me. They were emailed to me some years ago by the rifle's owner when we were discussing (on another forum) my purchase of Osa Johnson's Mauser in 9.3x62.


BTW, Gail has a YouTube channel. IMO, it's worth a visit.

YouTube channel link: https://www.youtube.com/@GailWentink/videos

Gomoti Plains Camp
video posted to YouTube on Jun 12, 2021

"My recent working trip to Gomoti Plains Camp with my husband, George and camp hosts, Shaun and Elcke Malan and their wonderful kids, Nala and Khan."

YouTube channel: Gail O'Reilly

 

[Muskox]

Like calling 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer a 256.

Exactly 1893 as the 6.5x54R and 1908 for the 6.5x54 MS. Was no 256 MS until later.

The 223 is actually first not the 5.56x45. 223 came out in 1964 and there was no 5.56x45 until the Belgians decided to adopt it in the 1970's and NATO and then USA. Pushing Eugene Stoner to make the 222 version of the AR-15 work. 223 Chambers are tighter than the 5.56 chambers because of military tolerance, but they are similar enough to be considered the same cartridge.

Also true of the 308 WCF came out in 1952, but it was part of of the T51 trials in the 1940's even though the cartridge originally looked a lot more like a 300 Savage, at some point Winchester saw the cartridge and got samples before the initial release, and they beat the military to final release by a couple of years. So you could say the 308 name was first in 1952, but it really was not first as the development of the 1954 introduced 7.62x51 had been years prior.

Commonly it is the 308, no matter the date. The news media will occasionally call it the 7.62. No one I know that is a hunter calls it the 7.62.

The 223 is more commonly known outside of hunters as the 5.56.

Another strange thing that happens in gun circles is people cal CZ 550's a Brno or "Bruno". Because they want to call it a Brno because that was the original. CZ and Brno are different companies.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

The Mannlicher Schoenauer was introduced in 1900, chambered for the rimless 6.5X54.

All model M1903 MS were chambered for it, as were the Y1903 military models and variants.

Mannlichers from 1891 had used the rimmed 6.5X53 (6.5X53.5mmR) which, other than the rim, is identical to the rimless 6.5X54MS. That cartridge has long been referred to as '.256 Mannlicher'.

The 6.5X54 MS uses a .264 projectile through a barrel with .256 lands.

 

[Sarg]

Sorry I was too quick too answer all proper manufactured sporting rifles is bascially a M98 or copy.
Lee actions were never adopted much by the classic gunsmith for building sporting rifles.

Emm, I have & had a LOT of nice Classic Sporting rifles from H&H, WR, C&H, Fraser, Greener & many others in .303 Brit from Farquharson Falling Block, Martini Drop Block, Enfield/Lee Bolts (still have lots of Lee Speed/BSAs) Mauser Bolts, even Double Rifles & Cape Guns, I still have a lovely Westley Richards in 400/360NE that is a rebored .303 Brit.

I believe the question is which is more "Classic" not most useful or what "you" would like to use ?

Then I would differently say the .303 Brit !

I dare say that the .303 Brit was chambered in more rifles by more manufacturers in a greater configuration of firearms than the .275, especially in "Classic" times ?

I most likely would use it over a .275-7x57 but wouldn't say it was that much better as I don't think it is as a caliber choice, would most likely carry a .375H&H of some type to cover it all, but I do love my .458Win Mag lol !

For soft recoil, light carry rifle, shooting support supply's/ I might well pick a 6.5x53R or 6.5X54 in Classic times ?

If we were just talking South Africa, which I don’t think we are ?

I don’t think even there the 7x57 was used much before or at all before the Boer War, I think an early Martini or even more a Monkeytail Westley Richards ?

 

[Sarg]

I should have said the first Boer War !