Which Elephant Rifle and cartridge?

[Fatback]

@michael458

I bought the rifle from a shop in South Dakota. I did not have any history with the rifle prior to seeing it on GB and winning the auction on it. According to the serial # the rifle was manufactured by the Winchester custom shop in 1999, so that would go along with the timeline you mentioned. I have just recently gotten into DG caliber rifles over the last two years and consequently Winchester M70s. I have spent quite a bit of time and money acquiring LH model 70s over this time. I have 6 now and all of them are New Haven guns. I am always on the lookout for them. In researching it, it is my understanding that unless it came from the custom shop nothing over 375 H&H was produced and no caliber was produced in a stainless/synthetic stock LH configuration.

I will say that if this was your friend’s rifle he took excellent care of it as it is in great shape now. It shoots well and is accurate for sure. I wasn’t sure if I was going to keep it a 458 when I bought it but after shooting it, it shoots to good to think about changing it to anything else. As of right now, my plan is to take it after cape buffalo the first week of September in Zimbawe.

Do you know of anyway to positively identify the rifle? If so, just let me know and I’ll be glad to check for you. I’d love to hear some stories about the rifle and how it served your buddy. Sounds like it is quite an accomplished rifle. Just send me a PM with contact info if you would like to chat. Thanks

 

[RR 314]

My GMA 404 built for me by Reto Beuhler did very well for me. Barnes flat point solid. They switched back to round; I have no doubt the flat point works better. Z6i 1-6 EE. Apparently manufacturers like to stop making the best tools for the job.

An R8 in an appropriate caliber would do the job as well or better in all respects other than aesthetics.

So true. To quote Hank Jr., “when something is good, why does it change?” The EE scopes are a real puzzle to me. R&D has been done, production cost would be the same as non-EE, and the offering has enough of a following to sell.

 

[michael458]

@Fatback

Thank you so much for the details that you have on the rifle.

This morning I have pretty much convinced myself that has to be his rifle, I can't see the Custom Shop just making very many LH Stainless 458 Winchesters, and with a Brake installed..... Maybe LH, on occasion, but not with a Brake....... I would think that would be extremely rare, and I am thinking a One of a Kind to be honest.......

Do you know of anyway to positively identify the rifle?

I have done some brief searches back in some old data, and I am just not finding anything that might 100% identify it.

He used the rifle from late 2000 in Mozambique for a lioness, and also buffalo. As I recall he would have been shooting a 400 Swift A frame on that mission at 2350 fps or so, I loaded everything for him and that is what I was shooting also in a Winchester M70 RH of course for me, at 22 inches...... He used it exclusively for several years thereafter, and only put it aside when I had a 50 B&M built for him.

Looking through the photos convinces me even more about the rifle........

I am guessing it would have been 2008-2009 when he retired the gun...... as far as upkeep on it, he was always rubbing on it, cleaning and looking after it like it was made of gold..... HEH..........

Again, logically I just can't see the Custom Shop making these, I have never seen another left hand 458 of any kind, and I kept up pretty well with the Custom shop until they closed down....... I believe it was one of a kind.......... I sincerely hope if indeed this is so, that you enjoy the gun as much as he did and best of luck with it in your future hunts, I know it will serve you well, again, thank you for taking time to get back to me on this, brings back many memories........
Michael

 

[Fatback]

@michael458, it it isn’t the same rifle the one I have is an EXCACT copy of the rifle your buddy had. I am going to agree with you and believe that my rifle is the same rifle your buddy used to such great effect.

I am very appreciative of you reaching out and sharing this info. I always wonder about the history of the used rifles I acquire. I hope that I can take this rifle on many more adventures and make the memory of your buddy proud. This is just another example of how great the folks here on AH are.

 

[Green Chile]

That's interesting...and I have never seen a left handed 458 stainless Winchester. Cool to see it being very active in the field.

 

[michael458]

@michael458, it it isn’t the same rifle the one I have is an EXCACT copy of the rifle your buddy had. I am going to agree with you and believe that my rifle is the same rifle your buddy used to such great effect.

I am very appreciative of you reaching out and sharing this info. I always wonder about the history of the used rifles I acquire. I hope that I can take this rifle on many more adventures and make the memory of your buddy proud. This is just another example of how great the folks here on AH are.

Yes, I honestly just can't see the Custom Shop making these, I believe it is my pal's rifle without much doubt, 99.9%.......... Ok, Stainless Left hand the plastic stock, and above all the muzzle brake? No, I don't think so. I have never known the Custom Shop to have a gun with a muzzle brake? I kept close ties with Leslie Dengler at the Custom Shop on nearly all their big bore guns from 2000 to time they closed the doors, I don't know of one.

I appreciate your feed back, @Fatback ........

I would love to have the gun, but I would never put it back in the field like you are going to, it deserves to be in the field with you, and like you said, go on many new adventures with you, oh yes, he would have liked that a lot and much better than it sitting here in the rack with me........... It is a good rifle, always shot great, and he did rather well with it. You will make us proud I am sure... Thank you........
Michael

 

[Fatback]

@michael458, I appreciate the vote of confidence. I didn’t know when I bought it if I would keep it a 458 Win or if I would have used it as a basis for another project. After shooting it and certainly after finding out more about the rifle’s storied history, it will remain a 458 Win as long as I have it. Hopefully it will bring me some of the successes your hunting partner enjoyed with it. Thanks again

 

[PCC600]

@Hunter-Habib,

Thank you for that insight. I really appreciate this.
Sounds like a different reality for different folks in the real- world.
Some shooters are good and some not.
The variance from hunter to hunter, recoil, versus shot placement is very interesting.

When moving up from a .458 Win Mag to .500 Jefferey, there is a limit in accuracy and recoil control as a rifleman.
Can't imagine a 600 Nitro Express.

I actually prefer shooting a 600NE to a 500J . The 600 is a much heavier rifle shooting at circa 2000fps . What is very noticeable on the 600 is muzzle jumping up rather than pushing back . You really do need to hang onto the fore end . 500J often around 4 pounds lighter and seem to recoil harder - at least to me .

 

[michael458]

@Fatback


Never count 458 Winchester out of the game. It can do everything you ever need to do, from deer to elephant and all in between, and do it DAMN GOOD as well........... I will always be on standby for you, if you have a project, need a load, suggestion on bullet, or anything that I might can help you with I am more than happy if I can assist....... Your success, is my Success and our goal............ Enjoy and I wish you the best................ We are here if you need........

 

[jgonzalez]

I'd use my .450 Rigby with my trijicon RMR

What dot size in the RMR?

 

[Sideshow]

I have a question for those that have used different calibres and different rifles.
Why the change? Where you not happy with the original rifle which you took your first elephant with?

 

[DieJager]

I have a question for those that have used different calibres and different rifles.
Why the change? Where you not happy with the original rifle which you took your first elephant with?

Interesting question love to hear the results. I am planning to use my 375 h&h if all things (read funding) works out.

 

[Hunting Hitman]

I have a question for those that have used different calibres and different rifles.
Why the change? Where you not happy with the original rifle which you took your first elephant with?

“Variety is the spice of life”

I am a certified gun enthusiast..nice way of saying that I have a problem.

I’m now to the point where I purchase the rifle and then plan the adventure I’m taking it on.

Range day yesterday with the 458 Lott:

HH

 

[DieJager]

Variety is the spice of life”

Always envious of you Americans. Maximum of 6 firearms allowed with a hunting license over here. Have to be selective with which calibers you want. 2 shotguns, 22lr and one bigger caliber is almost the minimum you need. Then only 2 slots left with one of them being the 375.

Thinking about an R8 because even if multiple barrels still count as one firearm.

 

[wildwilderness]

Always envious of you Americans. Maximum of 6 firearms allowed with a hunting license over here. Have to be selective with which calibers you want. 2 shotguns, 22lr and one bigger caliber is almost the minimum you need. Then only 2 slots left with one of them being the 375.

Thinking about an R8 because even if multiple barrels still count as one firearm.

Laws like that would sure help keep my firearm budget (note lack there of ) in check and save a lot of space!

 

[grand veneur]

I have a question for those that have used different calibres and different rifles.
Why the change? Where you not happy with the original rifle which you took your first elephant with?

If you own several rifles that are suitable for elephant hunting, you use that.

 

[VertigoBE]

I have a completely irrational dislike for the .470 NE based solely on the view that NE cartridges look better when straight walled. Give me a .450, .475, or .577 any day.

For some inexplicable reason I have the same preference for straight walled cases. Which is why I went for a .500NE

 

[Sideshow]

I have a question for those that have used different calibres and different rifles.
Why the change? Where you not happy with the original rifle which you took your first elephant with?

Maybe I should reframe it too. Did you find one lacking so decided to change. If so why? Was it the rifle or the calibre?
I’m not fishing for a dig. Just interested in why the change. Can also understand the well I’ve scratched that itch but man this one needs a good stick as well

 

[Rare Breed]

For some inexplicable reason I have the same preference for straight walled cases. Which is why I went for a .500NE

Cannot fault you for that. You have a beautiful DR my friend!!!

 

[McKenzie Sims]

Mtn_Infantry​

said it pretty damn spot on!

For me the ideal would be 470 0r 577 NE from westley richards lol

But reality speaking the work horse 375 works just fine. its a do all caliber and fits the bill in the lighter recoil and can enjoy shooting it much more. I like having a little more magnification for that setup and would go with a swarvoski Z8i 1.7-13.3x42 P I persoanly have an older z5 on my 375 but have a newer Z8I on my 404 jeffery and really enjoy it. It comes with its pro's and con's just as a double or bolt with just iron sights would.