When the good stuff doesn't work!!!

[Fordy]

Gday JG26irish_2

I am familiar with the cutting edge bullets but have never used them or seen them in the USA in factory loaded ammo despite CEB being a US company. The terminal results using the CEB Maximus in the 375 was shall we say, impressive?

Yes on a couple accounts as no commercial factory loaded with the Main Street companies but some small “boutique “ companies will do pretty well any
Yes wounds impressive & why you see consistency in killing but to level im searching for & found in other projectiles

Just to make sure that I am understanding your reply correctly, did you report that you observed a bang-flop result about 80% of the time while discounting any shots which impacted the central nervous system? "cns"

Yes no “cns “ should be taken & compared to a say a double lung shot as it doesn’t matter what pill is basically used on a cns the results are 100% the same
Now that’s different with spine shock & the critter drops to the shot & either gets back up after a while or succumbs to the wounds yes 2 totally different processes

There are so many different CEB bullets: Raptor, Maximus, ER Raptor, TSG Safari Raptor, etc. It makes it difficult to understand which are best for what application. And despite them being a USA company, the lack of any factory loaded ammo outside of the limited offerings from CEB themselves limits my use of them. Could you identify which of the CEB product line you are getting the good results with?

Yes hard to wade through that’s for sure my main pill of choice is raptors & their solid but those are in the 500 Jeffery other calibers I’ll mix it up a touch of many other brands or styles depending on what they will be used for

I like the best I know of for the situation ahead

If I understand you, the message is that shooting bone with cup n core bullets can lead to failures?

Yes correct with the word “can” being the important part to understand

But shooting bone with monos often increases their lethality?

Only on some as in case of the likes of the tsx you hit bone the killing is better from a impact to tip distance ( go back to those tables & why I access what has been impacted on the pills path & what it does not if it just kills as some do
Now that’s on a rule of thumb base but as already discussed once angles come into play & bone impacted the results of the say tsx can go pear shape with all sorts of weird things occurring & by angles you don’t need much to sway a pill off course & one that can be pretty broadside & even get a bad outcome more on that in a minute

If that is true it does seem to contradict the bone in GEL tests reported by the Norma engineers in the videos posted earlier. Just wondering what you think on this?

Now this is where I can show just like they did very little difference as so many other people can but it’s where my old mentor rest his sole was so true in the words of “just keep shooting Fordy “ & “what did the projectile actually do under those different resistances “

Here is where it really gets a bit of a bingo raffle as you can shoot multiple critters sxs with the same pill & shot placement which seems all good till the what just happened moment appears

Now let’s take a scapular for instance they overall are not that hard to punch through with most bullets most of the time but you hit the spine of the scapular & watch it disrupt a pills preformance level & now we are getting into what angle was it impacted at as a uphill shot will deflect some bullets off coarse enough to give spine shock drop critter on spot but it regains its feet and gets away or another shot secured it

So Norma’s video is not wrong it just dosent show what actually happens in real life
Yes it might not happen to you but someone it will & here we see once again in this thread the oh but I’ve not seen it or still killed the critter so all good right

Well not in my world as a lost critter is a problem that had the potential to be lessened if we understand what works better where

I do agree that data on animals is better than data on gel tests but it is also filled with more variables making it harder to interpret. Better but messy. Your culling tests provide a great insight.

Thankyou

Could you offer more detail on why you believe that the CEB (which one? Maxiums, Raptor, etc) is a consistent mono? and why is the mkt leader on reliability and killing efficiency when used in 375 calibers (and larger?).

I am not disagreeing with you, I do not have the experience to even form a strong opinion. But, I would like to learn more simply because, I have been testing bullets and ammo in my 375HH for an upcoming Nilgai hunt and am looking for a good option to use at ranges from up close out to about 300y and velocities from 2600fps down to about 1950fps. Am looking for best terminal performance at long range/slower velocity since the heavy cover can lead to lost animals. The guide on this hunt has specifically asked us to not use cup n core bullets or TSX type monos because in his view they do not work well enough on this type of game on the terrain on his ranch due to longer shots. He also required us to use 300 win mag or larger calibers. I have the option of using 338wm, 338rcm or 375HH in this case. All shoot well but my 375 and my son's 338 are the most accurate and thus are our most likely choices.

This I’ll come back to im sorry as running late & a lot in this & I’ll show some difference in ea design that show a bit more & your guide has merit I like that

For example the 225g ESP CEB Raptor would appear to be a good choice for longer range hunting with the 338wm rifle but other info on the CEB website shows the 6 petals shedding off and only penetrating about 10-12". When shooting a 600-700lb Nilgai at any angle other than perfect broadside or perfect frontal angle I am concerned that only the solid shank will get deep enough to do the job. Since my prey is many times larger than the deer shown in the pics, I am just looking for more info.

Oops goes with above

You briefly mentioned culling bovines with the CEB's? Were these domestic cow?, wild buffalo? or other bovines? Please share more as these would be closer in size and weight to my planned application. For reference at the moment my bullet of choice is the Nosler Accubond 300g or the Trophy Bonded Bearclaw 250g in the 375HH and the Trophy Bonded Tip 200g or 225g in the 338wm.

Will share more of these when I come back

Briefly these I take on culls are mostly wild cattle I cull these days
We call them scrubbies
But buffalo I used to take a lot of those guys out also but basically finished on those today as I am nearly finished on scrubbies also & along with horses donkeys camels pigs deer on culling & I’ll soon hang up my culling gear for good very soon
I’m more in line of if I can get 5 more years of going with mates & hunting I’ll be happy & one that i probably won’t kill a lot of critters as priorities are to see them smile & me I’m happier for that today as I’ve done enough killing but some I’ll still take if the opportunity comes along but utilise it not just waste it like a lot of what I do
I’m also a conservationist @ heart & today my part is hunting & conservation well true conservation to me go hand in hand
Yes I’m passionate on that like I have on bullets on years gone by but definitely don’t know everything or all

Sorry for the rambling
Catch you on the flip side with pictures of course
Cheers

 

[JG26Irish_2]

Gday JG26irish_2

I’m more in line of if I can get 5 more years of going with mates & hunting I’ll be happy & one that i probably won’t kill a lot of critters as priorities are to see them smile & me I’m happier for that today as I’ve done enough killing but some I’ll still take if the opportunity comes along but utilise it not just waste it like a lot of what I do
I’m also a conservationist @ heart & today my part is hunting & conservation well true conservation to me go hand in hand

Thx mate. I think we may both be in the same boat age wise. I still like to hunt but do not particularly enjoy killing animals and I care little if I actually pull the trigger on anything these days. I consider the shot to be the somewhat sad period at the end of the hunting story.

But, I do love to shoot and since hunting involves a challenge and shooting it is still fun.
thank you for the input and information.