When is enough gun actually enough?

[Sabattiboy]

We live in a wonderful world of new bullet designs and also read where some disregard mfg suggested application. Yes, a Hornady A-Max or ELD are likely to kill deer or even Elk. I read a story where a guy killed 3 Grizzly bears with a 32-20 lever rifle most likely with lead bullets. Elmer Keith wrote that he supplied his guided hunters with his ammo so he could see how Western Tool and Copper Works bullets of the day performed. He said some blew up never penetrating and others punched straight through never expanding. Best 2 out of 3?
I watched youtube video's of feral hogs being shot like they would shoot a deer then wonder why they run off as if missed. A hog is not a deer.
How about using the correct bullets running at the mfg rated velocity then placing the bullet in the correct spot on the animal?
Karamojo Bell used a .318 caliber rifle as his preferred elephant gun. He wrote a .276 didn't always perform. He lived to tell the tails but nobody would suggest that as the best caliber today and some countries now require a 40 caliber or bigger.
From the writings I wonder if a PH would still allow a 375 H&H if 40 cal is the rule.

 

[Tanks]

...
some countries now require a 40 caliber or bigger.
From the writings I wonder if a PH would still allow a 375 H&H if 40 cal is the rule.

Which countries, at this point I am not aware of any so would welcome updated info?

 

[mark-hunter]

450/400 Yes, but not for impala, for example.

In all discussions such as this one, I always come to same conclusion.
For Africa, 375 hh, is measuring stick.
If someone wants more, it is ok, but it is also more then enough.

For northern hemisfere, measuring stick, all round cal, in most cases will be 30-06. Anything more is more then enough.
For game such as moose and bear, various 9.3 cals, maybe 338, are someteing good for enough gun title,, but unlike 375 in africa they will not reach that pupularity, with smaller species, or title of all round gun.

 

[Tanks]

...
In all discussions such as this one, I always come to same conclusion.
For Africa, 375 hh, is measuring stick.
If someone wants more, it is ok, but it is also more then enough.
...

For most game I agree with you. However, for lion, elephant, hippo, cape buffalo, rhino and elephant I'd prefer a stopping caliber and rifle. Especially when distances are in the teens.

 

[mark-hunter]

Yes, stopping caliber is special category.

 

[Philip Glass]

As i normally browse through the threads when i am bored i noticed something interesting, as well as expected. There is a trend that i am noticing regarding bigger caliber rifles becoming the norm. This together with another thread i read about 3 favorite rifles, where i noticed a bunch of 30 06 and very few 308. Now this is dead beat horse as we all know. It is faster and packs a little more punch etc etc etc. But if that's the case then surely a 300win mag is better?

And if a 300win mag is better, the. Surely a 338 win mag beats the 300? And IF a 338 is better then a 300. Then The 375 is absolutely better than the 338.

O but lets not forget the 416 Rigby?

You see where i am getting. So this got me thinking that when do we decide "what enough" gun is?

Please feel free to give your feedback or Rant. Both are fun to read.

Depends on the game being hunted. Easy answer is .300 for PG and .375 for everything else but ele.

 

[TOBY458]

"Enough Gun" can be seen two ways. Enough gun for the quarry or (possibly) too much gun for the hunter.

As @Shootist43 and @Red Leg have stated, the caliber should match the game as close as possible. So a .30 and .375 caliber for travel to Africa is nearly perfect. Which exact calibers you choose will depend on your personal collection and opinion.

We chose our calibers (300WM and 375H&H) based on the fact that they use the same bolt head of the Blaser R8. It also gave me the opportunity to use the 416RM, which I did for a while before determining it was "too much gun" for what I wanted to do and sold it. If (when) I add another caliber it will most likely be the 257WBY, again because it uses the same bolt head.

All that said, the 375RUGER, 30-06 and 25-06 are all based on the same cartridge and will nearly duplicate what I have done.

The biggest question is if you are capable of handling the calibers you want. There are many people who can not shoot a .30 caliber rifle that weighs 8#, let alone a .375. It's what YOU are able to do that counts. With proper practice, almost anyone has the ability to shoot the mid and large bore rifles. Investing in the time it takes to do so with accuracy and consistency it the rub.

Although the 375 Ruger, 30/06 and 25/06 would make a great combo, the 375 Ruger would require a magnum bolt head. The 9.3x62 would pair well with the two 06 rounds though, and maintain the same standard bolt head.
On a similar note, I just bought a set of 257 Weatherby reloading dies "just in case".

 

[Sabattiboy]

Which countries, at this point I am not aware of any so would welcome updated info?

I have heard some countries require a 40 caliber minimum for years and even read that mentioned I believe in this thread. When I searched online I found some have energy minimums but that particular article made no mention of a 40 caliber rule and even said a 375 H&H would cover them all.
At this point I don't know if the 40 cal rule ever existed or was later modified.
He did say that it largely fell to the PH and his hide if something went wrong and the situation was investigated finding someone used an inadequate cartridge. Of course no one could complain if a legal or acceptable cartridge was used but poorly shot causing a bad situation.

 

[Professor Mawla]

Based on my personal experiences , I would have to say :

- A .338 Winchester Magnum is more than enough for any non dangerous game up to a sambar stag or an eland bull or a nilgai .
- My .458 Winchester Magnum is more than enough for any dangerous game up to an elephant bull ( assuming that you use proper ammunition that achieves a bare minimum of 2100 feet per second with 500 grain bullets )

 

[Ruan Bouwer]

As i normally browse through the threads when i am bored i noticed something interesting, as well as expected. There is a trend that i am noticing regarding bigger caliber rifles becoming the norm. This together with another thread i read about 3 favorite rifles, where i noticed a bunch of 30 06 and very few 308. Now this is dead beat horse as we all know. It is faster and packs a little more punch etc etc etc. But if that's the case then surely a 300win mag is better?

And if a 300win mag is better, the. Surely a 338 win mag beats the 300? And IF a 338 is better then a 300. Then The 375 is absolutely better than the 338.

O but lets not forget the 416 Rigby?

You see where i am getting. So this got me thinking that when do we decide "what enough" gun is?

Please feel free to give your feedback or Rant. Both are fun to read.

I'm 6 foot tall and 210lbs. 1.85m and 95kg. I shoot the .375 H&H with the biggest comfort, it doesn't feel any different to me than shooting my .270 Win when I'm taking an animal. I am super comfortable with the rifle and as I've discussed with many a hunting partner before, when you're shooting on an animal you don't feel recoil. It's my favourite rifle, favourite caliber and I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world. Pre 64 Winchester Model 70. Took my first sable with it this past weekend and it's becoming second nature shooting that thing. I feel like "enough gun" is subjective in the sense that it should still be comfortable for you to shoot. It's the age old saying that says that a .375 in the hands of a competent hunter is worth a million times more than a .505 in the hands of an incompetent one.

 

[Badboymelvin]

Based on my personal experiences , I would have to say :

- A .338 Winchester Magnum is more than enough for any non dangerous game up to a sambar stag or an eland bull or a nilgai .
- My .458 Winchester Magnum is more than enough for any dangerous game up to an elephant bull ( assuming that you use proper ammunition that achieves a bare minimum of 2100 feet per second with 500 grain bullets )

They are the 2 calibers that l own!
I load them both with premium Woodleigh projectiles and with them I feel ready to hunt any game, anywhere in the world

 

[meigsbucks]

Years ago I read a brochure from I believe A-Square. I may be paraphrasing, but I believe it was: “Put a good bullet, in the right place, with the most power practical”.
That stuck with me but I’ve modified it to: Put a good bullet in the right place from a firearm and cartridge suitable for the game and conditions being hunted.
I don’t think there is truly such a thing as ”overkill”, but I believe in using rounds in line with the game being hunted and will handle it in all the situations I’ll encounter on that hunt. If I’m hunting whitetails in primarily a woods or brushy scenario, I’ll use a .257 Roberts, 6.5 (Cm, x55, .260), 7mm/08. More open areas: probably a .25/06, .270 or .280.
Elk and moose: You’ll find a .300 mag, .338 mag, .35 Whelen or something similar in my hands.
Africa is another story, in that your hunt will probably encompass a largely diverse size of game. It could be a 15# Steinbok or a 700# Kudu or even a 1700# Eland. Couple that with if you are going to pursue DG, you’re going to need a rifle to handle that aspect of your hunt.
You’re going to be 1000’s of miles from home and pretty much limited to two rifles. You don’t want to be stalking an impala with a .243 and encounter a big kudu bull. Remember: if you draw blood, you pay the trophy fee and at the very least waste valuable hunting time, following up wounded game.
The following is just my opinion but: Hunters and hunting is under attack. We owe it to the noble game animals we pursue, to do everything possible to insure quick, humane kills, and if that means using a little bigger round, so be it. I hate it when I hear of people using rounds that are marginal for the game being hunted.

 

[Tanks]

...I hate it when I hear of people using rounds that are marginal for the game being hunted.

You must be full of rage when you hear all these guys advocating for a .375 for DG.

 

[meigsbucks]

You must be full of rage when you hear all these guys advocating for a .375 for DG.

Damn straight! I wouldn’t shoot anything bigger than a Jack rabbit with a .375! Just kidding, I think the .375 is where DG rounds begin. I was referring to using rounds that may or may not get the job done even if well applied.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

It depends on situations and circumstances ( like what shot presents itself ) Sometimes , a person achieves so much success with a small caliber that they believe that the bigger calibers should be completely dispensed with . Of course , a slip up eventually makes them have second thoughts . During my career as DFO , I’ve killed the last of my three man eating Royal Bengal Tigers with my 7 mm Mauser ( an EJ Churchill ) and 175 Gr Winchester Super X soft points . It was a single broadside lung shot taken from the boat , while one of my men held the torchlight . The tiger appeared dead for a while , before making off . We eventually found him actually dead the next day , roughly three miles away from where I shot him . It goes without saying that when dealing with the big cats , a .375 Holland & Holland Magnum is about as small as I’d want to go ( and it’s served me beautifully ) .

After hunting in Africa a few times over the years , I settled on the following :
- For the tiny ten , a .243 Winchester is enough gun
- For plains game , a .30-06 is enough gun ( and yes , that includes elands too if you use the 220 grain bullet )
- For dangerous game , you can’t go wrong with a .375 Holland & Holland Magnum

If you’re a white hunter , then having a good stopping rifle in either .505 Gibbs or .500 Jeffery ( or .500 Nitro Express if you are a doubles man ) is an absolutely wise thing to do . If you are the client , then a .375 is good enough for all the dangerous game .