What's up with todays' gun shops?

[mdwest]

I can understand buying an inexpensive first rifle for a youth or gal and if they don't stay with it you aren't out much.

I started the wife off with a super inexpensive rifle.. a Mossberg ATR "Bantam" in @Bob Nelson 35Whelen 's favorite caliber... .243...

She expressed an interest in hunting.. but it was a very mild interest at the time.. it was really more of a "youre going to be doing a lot of this hunting thing.. I'd like to be involved" type interest.. I wasnt certain how long it would last or if we'd ever even make it into a deer blind.. she was both recoil and noise sensitive and didnt really care for shooting anything other than pistols and an occasional AR at the time... So I found a "hunt ready" rifle with a cheap little scope, etc. already mounted in a caliber capable to dropping TN deer (where we lived at the time).. thinking if it didnt stick, I wouldnt be out more than $299.. .and I had a young son back then that would be ready to start in a year or two.. so I'd just give the rifle to him to learn on later...

Fast forward to today... she now owns more rifles than I do... most of her rifles are significantly nicer, have better glass, etc.. than mine... and she shoots a 375 H&H with no problem at all (the whole hunting thing appears to have stuck lol)..

I replicated the process for all four of the kids.. either using hand me down rifles.. or buying other "entry" grade rifles to get them started.. if/when they demonstrate that hunting and/or shooting is something they are genuinely going to stay involved in, they typically get "upgrades" over a series of birthdays, Christmases, etc.. and end up with some pretty nice tools..

 

[skydiver386]

I started the wife off with a super inexpensive rifle.. a Mossberg ATR "Bantam" in @Bob Nelson 35Whelen 's favorite caliber... .243...

She expressed an interest in hunting.. but it was a very mild interest at the time.. it was really more of a "youre going to be doing a lot of this hunting thing.. I'd like to be involved" type interest.. I wasnt certain how long it would last or if we'd ever even make it into a deer blind.. she was both recoil and noise sensitive and didnt really care for shooting anything other than pistols and an occasional AR at the time... So I found a "hunt ready" rifle with a cheap little scope, etc. already mounted in a caliber capable to dropping TN deer (where we lived at the time).. thinking if it didnt stick, I wouldnt be out more than $299.. .and I had a young son back then that would be ready to start in a year or two.. so I'd just give the rifle to him to learn on later...

Fast forward to today... she now owns more rifles than I do... most of her rifles are significantly nicer, have better glass, etc.. than mine... and she shoots a 375 H&H with no problem at all (the whole hunting thing appears to have stuck lol)..

I replicated the process for all four of the kids.. either using hand me down rifles.. or buying other "entry" grade rifles to get them started.. if/when they demonstrate that hunting and/or shooting is something they are genuinely going to stay involved in, they typically get "upgrades" over a series of birthdays, Christmases, etc.. and end up with some pretty nice tools..

Consider yourself lucky. Whenever Tina shoot's one of my guns and shoots well with it, somehow magically it becomes HER gun.

 

[mdwest]

Consider yourself lucky. Whenever Tina shoot's one of my guns and shoots well with it, somehow magically it becomes HER gun.

this is exactly why the wifes firearms collection is bigger than mine lol..

she couldnt spell glock before we met...

she decided she really liked my Gen 2 Glock 19 that I had been shooting since the very early 90's.. so, it became hers...

no big deal.. I replaced it with a Gen 4...

which she decided was also very nice... and it became hers too lol...

the long guns are where she kills me... Im built like a sasquatch.. and she's 5'3" with the LOP of a field mouse..

so.. she decides she likes my shotgun/rifle/whatever... it immediately goes to the gunsmith and has the stock cut down to fit her... which makes it hers for life lol... I cant shoot them anymore..

her 375 H&H... was at one time my 375 H&H lol.. her sporting clays shotgun... was at one time mine.. lol...

Im pretty sure before its over shes going to claim my 416 too...

 

[CBH Australia]

The problem with a lot of fun shops in Australia is they want to sell you what they think you need not what you want or really need.
A lot of the counter staff nowadays know stuff all about guns especially older guns and cartridges. They want you to have the latest and greatest wizz bang pos at stupid prices.
They need to get back to basics and provide GOOD CUSTOMER SERVICE. Try and ask for 35 Whelen cartridges and you get strange looks and asked what's that or why do you want something that big.
Bob

Oh Bob, you’re just showing your age using cartridges based on .303 and .30-06.
Don’t you know there is a new kid in the block that they are all talking about , and if you want to shoot past 500 it just leaves everything else in its wake.
You gotta get one of those new fangled guns.

 

[coreydb]

Anyone "pawnshopping" for guns, should read this article on Pawnamerica.com. https://www.pawnamerica.com/Blog/how-do-pawn-shops-determine-value. Not only does it show the reader the sobering truth behind pawnshop pricing, but (for me) also how to determine my initial offer, the highest price I'm willing to pay.

Plus, timing is everything. Hunting rifles are seasonal items. Scour the pawnshops during the hunting "off season"

 

[cajunchefray]

My local gun club runs several events a year aimed at new shooters. Specifically, youths aged 8-15 years old and ladies. Never any charges. Youths have a one on one coach at the bench. They are able to try long guns of various types. Club provides ammo. The ladies only requirement was to bring a covered dish for the meal afterwards. The ladies rotate thru various stages, bolt guns, semi's, shotgun, archery, pistols and revolvers. About 5 hours worth. As Chief Range Safety Officer I give safety briefs, and I coach the ladies to not let the counter staff sell them a handgun at first( just because the staff get a free gun or bonus) Fit is important and their budget of course. As a sidenote, most ladies want to try a 1911 and 44 mag. at the range. Also baffles me is some are excited to shoot the Armalite AR50. Personally, my kind of gal!

I got to join that gun club! My wife is that kind of gal.
She shoots a 1911 well.
She wants to go to a sniper training course to learn to shoot long range.
I’m lucky .
I find that women who want to shoot achieve competence faster and better than some men.
Knowing that they can hit the target instills a lot of confidence.

A LGS does a good job with showing first time women buyers how to handle all of their pistols, to find the best comfortable fit.

 

[cajunchefray]

Anyone "pawnshopping" for guns, should read this article on Pawnamerica.com. https://www.pawnamerica.com/Blog/how-do-pawn-shops-determine-value. Not only does it show the reader the sobering truth behind pawnshop pricing, but (for me) also how to determine my initial offer, the highest price I'm willing to pay.

Plus, timing is everything. Hunting rifles are seasonal items. Scour the pawnshops during the hunting "off season"

Yes that’s when I sometimes find a nice deal.
Some folks here just seem to “rent “ guns for hunting, then sell them back afterwards. A week after hunting season, the racks are full.

 

[cajunchefray]

There are plenty of gun stores in South Africa and although there are a good number of black gun tactical shops there are as many traditional ones that will even stock double rifles. To make ends meet they will invariably stock outdoor and hunting stuff too. The larger ones have a a little restaurant and coffee bar, some even sell beer.

Interesting @Kevin Peacocke .
A LGS just moved into a big new building, and built out space for a cafe.
But they don’t sell beer!
South Africa is interesting.
I remember going to a MAKRO mart in Jo’Berg, to source some food ingredients, and they were sampling whiskey, gin, and tequila at 9:00 in the morning!
My South African friends were all over that.

 

[cajunchefray]

The problem with a lot of fun shops in Australia is they want to sell you what they think you need not what you want or really need.
A lot of the counter staff nowadays know stuff all about guns especially older guns and cartridges. They want you to have the latest and greatest wizz bang pos at stupid prices.
They need to get back to basics and provide GOOD CUSTOMER SERVICE. Try and ask for 35 Whelen cartridges and you get strange looks and asked what's that or why do you want something that big.
Bob

@Bob Nelson 35Whelen , you need to come back and visit Cajun country.
We are lucky enough to have regulations for Primitive Weapons deer season for single shot rifles, minimum.35 caliber. When that went into effect, gun shops, even Walmart started selling.35 Whelen ammo.
My friends no longer looked at me like I was weird when I showed them my custom 1912 Steyr Mauser 98 Whelen.
They just said “good round, it will drop deer.”
I just smiled.

 

[Certus]

Tacticool is cheap, people with the guns liked on this site flog them off for insane prices.
Look at Ruger RSM’s. Used are listed at double or triple the price paid new. Same with M70’s.
Why would you want to spend so much on a rifle in expensive ammo that’s not really practical for USA when you could get something that you can regularly make changes to, ammos cheap, can take it hunting here, can spend an evening plinking without breaking the bank? Dunno, black guns seem more practical now.

Plus if I recall there’s a shortage on walnut nowadays anyway?

 

[Cwbybill]

I am Going on my second elk hunt out west this year
trying to buy a better riflle in central Florida has been difficult
only blue a,nd walnut in three local shops were 22’s
last hunt I tried to buy in Montana but they would not sell to me
probly get a plastic 06 or learn to use GB

 

[Jay Kelley]

It's supply and demand as far as what is in stock. What I see in the shops I frequent that is more important is willingness to help me find what I want, even if it means a special order. Of course, manufacturing being what it is, sometimes what I want is unobtainium, but they try ( As a side effect, they will occasionally take an older gun on trade that other shops might not want because they know I and a couple of others have an interest.) I have gotten a few good deals that way and perhaps left a few extra dollars on the counter at other times. It's give and take with people I know that is important to me.

I went to a gun show last weekend that was overflowing with cool stuff - mostly old revolvers, but some rifles and shotguns as well. Of course I had no money thanks to paying taxes AND insurance this month. When I have money and go, all they have is tupperware.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Not being critical.
It's comparing apples to oranges

I personally own and use firearms that range in cost from $200.00+/- to $3000.00+/-, bulk of them in the $800.00 to $2000.00 range, to include antique / collector weapons; as in 150+/- years old.

How old is your oldest AR and how many parts have you replaced? (Rethorical question)

But you pretty much answered your own question.

Tacticool:

●Cheap ie. inexpensive, lacks true quality, "plastic"
●over whelmingly mass produced
decrease in value
●no true authentic looks
●Calibers considered adequate for North American big game, not for meant, nor allowed, for hunting in other countries

VS

Firearms mentioned on this forum:

●Higher Quality, equates to more expensive
●Generally hold and/or increase in value, especially custom and semi custom firearms by established firearm producers that only produce 30 to 40 firearms annually. Factories produce less than 200,000 "traditional" firearms annually.
●Calibers are not available in "standard AR/ Black gun" platforms
●Firearms design and in calibers that are acceptable worldwide as sporting firearms.

I understand the possible subtext you are asking and yeah I agree. My 30-06 Mossberg Patriot when I purchased it new, first year production(?), I paid less than today's MSRP, scope Optics Planetx Osprey series, everything is factory with NO Custom accessories or aftermarket gunsmithing.

IMO, For fit and accuracy, It is equal to or better than any factory produced, semi custom, and even custom firearms of greater cost.

But only a few of my firearms I have owned are in the exception category. If a firearm doesn't meet the exception category I sell it; or as a gunsmith evaluate it, and only IF I think I can make it exceptional at reasonable cost, I keep it as a project.

In essence if you like cheap, no thrills, no romance, mass produced everyone has one then cheap firearms no problems and enjoy.

If you like beauty, art, romance, better quality , than "Plain Jane", then you to expect to pay a bit more.

Ask yourself;
What is your acceptable accuracy expectations?
What are you willing to spend for better accuracy, and beauty?
Then buy firearms accordingly to Your Budget!!!

I do!

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Tacticool is cheap, people with the guns liked on this site flog them off for insane prices.
Look at Ruger RSM’s. Used are listed at double or triple the price paid new. Same with M70’s.
Why would you want to spend so much on a rifle in expensive ammo that’s not really practical for USA when you could get something that you can regularly make changes to, ammos cheap, can take it hunting here, can spend an evening plinking without breaking the bank? Dunno, black guns seem more practical now.

Plus if I recall there’s a shortage on walnut nowadays anyway?

Tactical weapons can be fun, but they have a different purpose than hunting guns. An AR in .308 can be used for deer hunting in most states, but don't think that you'll be able to take one to most other countries. Those are also really heavy. .223 or 7.62x39 really are underpowered for most deer hunting and just don't have the power or rsnge for anything bigger. The purpose of tactical weapons really is to shoot people, and yes I own an AR-15. I also had to qualify with then regularly for the 22 years I spent working in prisons. I do not see them as practical hunting weapons.

Bolt guns with synthetic stocks may, or maybe not, be less expensive than those stocked in walnut. It's also easier to make them accurate and they are less prone to changing point of impact with weather changes, so they could be considered more practical, especially if they are in stainless. I have one of those too. But for many of us, nothing compares to blued steel in pretty walnut. These can be really expensive and if you want one with a controlled round feed, they almost certainly will be but the feel and look of these in your hands while hunting or shooting just can't be matched by anything else.

As far as a shortage of walnut goes, they have been saying that for at least 45 years. That helps to keep the price up!