What To Look For In Buying Binoculars

[rookhawk]

Be careful with Zeiss, there are dodgy ones made at a $400-$800 price point that are no better than Nikon.

Leica and Swarovski are head and shoulders superior to the rest. They are as good or better than gen 1 night Vision in most cases as their gathering and coatings are just that good.

 

[ArmyGrunt]

Interesting note. I'll assume this is a case by case thing? Some Zeiss are good, others iffy?

 

[Tom Leoni]

I don't want to speak on Rookhawk's behalf, but I think he's referring to the Zeiss Terra line--they are manufactured in China and they are priced to compete with the non-premium brands.

 

[ArmyGrunt]

I see....that's what I purchased...so I guess I'll find it Wed if they're worthwhile. If not, there's always the return policy. Then I can look at Swaro on eBay as suggested earlier in this thread

 

[Tom Leoni]

Lots of good advice on this thread, I know things can get daunting. Binos (besides calibers) are probably the most hotly contested topic among rifle nuts, also because most people with an informed opinion are right (see my exchange with Red Leg)--and there's no one-size-fits-all truth about what may be best for you. A top of the line Leica, Zeiss or Swaro will set you back the better part of $3k, and (in deference to those who use them), they ARE better in terms of optics quality. But I also wouldn't discount your Zeiss Terra and the other optics in the 500-1,000 price range (as I said in my other post), because they are more than acceptable choices and they work for thousands upon thousands of serious enthusiasts. Above $1,000 you are getting very modest gradual improvements over more competitively priced modern sporting optics--although for sure these "modest gradual improvements" do mount up to something truly tangible at the $2k+ level.

Bottom line, although I may take flak for it: as an amateur hunter you can't go very wrong with any of the brands mentioned in this thread. If you know you're going to have to count the flies on a bull's arse at 400 yards at sundown, and you have the cash, go for the very best--you won't regret it. But (for me at least), I am too aware of my own limitations as a hunter, shooter and judge of trophies to invest $3k in a pair of binoculars that would outperform my own skills by several orders of magnitude.

 

[Gemsbok Gangsta]

Maven check em out!!

 

[Royal27]

Lots of good advice on this thread, I know things can get daunting. Binos (besides calibers) are probably the most hotly contested topic among rifle nuts, also because most people with an informed opinion are right (see my exchange with Red Leg)--and there's no one-size-fits-all truth about what may be best for you. A top of the line Leica, Zeiss or Swaro will set you back the better part of $3k, and (in deference to those who use them), they ARE better in terms of optics quality. But I also wouldn't discount your Zeiss Terra and the other optics in the 500-1,000 price range (as I said in my other post), because they are more than acceptable choices and they work for thousands upon thousands of serious enthusiasts. Above $1,000 you are getting very modest gradual improvements over more competitively priced modern sporting optics--although for sure these "modest gradual improvements" do mount up to something truly tangible at the $2k+ level.

Bottom line, although I may take flak for it: as an amateur hunter you can't go very wrong with any of the brands mentioned in this thread. If you know you're going to have to count the flies on a bull's arse at 400 yards at sundown, and you have the cash, go for the very best--you won't regret it. But (for me at least), I am too aware of my own limitations as a hunter, shooter and judge of trophies to invest $3k in a pair of binoculars that would outperform my own skills by several orders of magnitude.

Well said

 

[rookhawk]

I don't want to speak on Rookhawk's behalf, but I think he's referring to the Zeiss Terra line--they are manufactured in China and they are priced to compete with the non-premium brands.

Precisely. Zeiss Terra. I've seen them at $300 on closeout and yes, at $200 they are great. So are clearance first world meopta at the $250-$400 price and the steiner 10x50 Porro prism models are phenomenal also at wholesale / eBay / clearance in that sub $300 range.

Cameralandny had some $1600 leica models on blowout for $800. Last holiday and those would be 2x as good as all those previously mentioned above. Now are the Leica on blowout as good as $2400 Swarovski and Leica HD-B $3200 models? No. But for 1/3 to 1/4 the price they are probably the best price-quality equilibrium to exist in the past five years on the market.

Everything looks really good in a store. Go out at dusk and try all of these and you'll be able to judge which make the grade. For casual birding and daytime safaris, every bino listed would meet minimum standards including Nikon monarch and the terras and the cabelas (meopta) options.

 

[Tom Leoni]

An interesting question--corollary to the one(s) discussed here would be:

If we go with the big-3--Leica, Swaro and Zeiss--what is the practical field difference between their +/- $1k line and their top line? For instance, what would I as a hunter gain with an Ultravid over a Trinovid, or an EL Pro over an SLC? (Purposely excluding rangefinder features, as this adds a somewhat apples and oranges dimension to it all.)

Curious to hear from the more experienced lens-bugs.

 

[Tom Leoni]

Precisely. Zeiss Terra. I've seen them at $300 on closeout and yes, at $200 they are great. So are clearance first world meopta at the $250-$400 price and the steiner 10x50 Porro prism models are phenomenal also at wholesale / eBay / clearance in that sub $300 range.

Cameralandny had some $1600 leica models on blowout for $800. Last holiday and those would be 2x as good as all those previously mentioned above. Now are the Leica on blowout as good as $2400 Swarovski and Leica HD-B $3200 models? No. But for 1/3 to 1/4 the price they are probably the best price-quality equilibrium to exist in the past five years on the market.

Everything looks really good in a store. Go out at dusk and try all of these and you'll be able to judge which make the grade. For casual birding and daytime safaris, every bino listed would meet minimum standards including Nikon monarch and the terras and the cabelas (meopta) options.

Good points, especially on value for the money. I would also point out that ebay often has amazing deals... for instance, I was able to pick up a virtually new 10x42 Leica Trinovid BA (the early-2000's model, when it was still being made in Germany) for a song, complete with harness and carry case.

 

[rookhawk]

Good points, especially on value for the money. I would also point out that ebay often has amazing deals... for instance, I was able to pick up a virtually new 10x42 Leica Trinovid BA (the early-2000's model, when it was still being made in Germany) for a song, complete with harness and carry case.

Brilliant! And vastly superior to their Portuguese versions! Well done.

 

[Ray B]

I'm not sure what coatings and grinding improvements have been made in the last 60 years, but I can see very well in near darkness through my 1949 mfg Bausch & Lomb 8x30 Zephyrs. I bought a Zeiss Dialyt 10x40 (made in Germany) several years ago- these are the glasses my son uses when we go hunting. they are reasonably light but can't compare to the magnesium B&Ls.

 

[rookhawk]

@Ray B I think major coating changes happened in the mid to late 1980s. For example, I know that vintage Zeiss scopes are much better and more valuable if the model ends in a T for T-coatings. The other actors had the same improvement around the same time.

And I agree, I 1940s WWII hensoldt bino looks pretty good even today, no doubt your B&L are still quite functional.

 

[JGRaider]

Lots of good info here, and I thought I'd throw my experience in the mix as well. I own a Swaro SLC Hd in 10x42, Swaro SV 10x50, Meopta Meostar 10x42 HD, Gold RIng 10x42 HD, Leupold Mojave 8x32, and a Tract Toric 8x42 UHD. I have also had the luxury of having near 150 hunters into our hunting camps the past 15 years, so I have either owned or used most of the high end glass out there by all makers, with the exception of the most recent Zeiss SF, Leica UHD, and Nikon EDG.

I can say for certain that to my 56 yr old eyes, the optics in the $600 (Toric) and $1000 binoculars (Meostar, Razor HD, Conquest HD) are better than anything you could buy a short 15 years ago. You cannot see something through my SLC HD or SV's that you cannot see equally as well with my Meopta HD or Tract Toric HD. I have spent many hours with these side by side on tripods trying to discern a very noticeable difference, and I cannot, with the exception of the 10x50 SV, which I consider the finest hunting binocular made today. The view is astounding. You will have to spend $1500+ to beat a Tract Toric though. I had that binocular in Namibia last August, and there was a Conquest HD, Swaro SLC wb (older model 10x42), Swaro 8x30 SLC, and a Leupold Mojave ED in camp as well. The Toric was the best glass there (and is exceptionally well made), and it was not that hard for everyone to agree. I personally would not buy anything Leica due to their shoddy customer service and pathetic USA warranty. In fact, the only Leica's I see in camp anymore are the older Geovid's.

One last note, ergonomics of the binocular are just as important as the glass, IMO. Eyepieces that don't fit, are too large, too small, inadequate eye relief, large barrels, etc can make a difference and be very distracting to otherwise great optics.

Good luck and have some fun with it.

 

[billc]

I did not read all the post but get some think you need $3000 and some are ok with $1000 to buy glass. Well in the end like it or not. It is just fact not everyone can afford to spend $3000 on glass. My rule is get the best I can afford at the time with also taking in to account if you will benefit from spending extra.

If your a guide and hunt a lot during a year better glass maybe worth it long term. If your a hunter who hunts for himself a few weeks a year hard to say you need $3000 glass.

Way to many guys think buying some hi end glass or gun or even camo makes them a better hunter. Some skills can not be bought and the little difference between brands most will never be able to tell the difference other then they heard they are better.

I have bushnell ,Nixon, leupold and swaroski products and they all do the job I bought them for.

 

[rookhawk]

I did not read all the post but get some think you need $3000 and some are ok with $1000 to buy glass. Well in the end like it or not. It is just fact not everyone can afford to spend $3000 on glass.

I don't think anyone was conveying that.

The excerpts:

Get a good deal when you buy so you can get more mileage out of your dollars.

There is a difference between trash and $300 binos.

Be wary of too much hype from binos of lower quality from the big names.

Old good glass is still good glass.

Coatings have improved in recent decades.

The big three are well regarded.

The quality difference between the $1000 closeout and the $3000 retail is slight.

Buy the best you can afford.

 

[curtism1234]

I have a pair of Vortex Diamondback 8x42 and I find them to be just about perfect. Good clear optics, underpriced for you get, and lightweight for 42's

 

[Gemsbok Gangsta]

Anybody with Zeiss experience??

 

[rookhawk]

Anybody with Zeiss experience??

Don't pay retail. They are fine binos but the terra and their mid tier are going after the mid-premium consumer on a high margin markup. They are using their brand reputation to overcharge for the cheaper stuff. Still good, but there are several good binos at the $400-$800 price point. If you go into almost all cabelas bargain caves you can find Zeiss clearance for what I believe is what they are really worth. I'm biased at the $300-$400 price point though, a Porro prism Steiner that doesn't require focusing whatsoever is very useful and I prefer it. If I'm spending more than $400 I want a used/refurb $2000 optic for $800 or a super deal on a new Leica HD-B or Swarovski 10x42 EL.

I'm trying to be honest as I have extreme buying habits, either I get good enough or I go the full Monty. I find the Zeiss to be in the middle - more than I want to spend (and not seeing marked improvement) when being cheap/frugal, and not good enough to be as good as the best money can buy.

 

[Ray B]

Anybody with Zeiss experience??

As noted above, I have a Zeiss 10x40 Dialyt Classic. It has the T coating and were made in Germany. a few years after I got them Zeiss opened a plant in the US and I'm uncertain what the product line is now. For general use I use them a lot but if I'm going hunting or other situation where I would be wearing the glass I use a B&L 8x30 Zephyr binocular that my grandpa bought new in 1949. the main reason, other than nostalgia that I wear them is they are really light. I can hang them around my neck and forget that they are there. the Zeiss are nice, but they are about twice the weight.
For grade of glass, before digital overwhelmed the camera business I took a lot of film photographs. My favorite cameras were Hasselblad 500s and all the lenses were made by Zeiss. I'll still use them for photographs where a permanent record and grain beyond pixels is wanted. For camera glass I preferred the Zeiss to Leica or Nikon, so it wouldn't be surprising that I prefer their binoculars.