What rifle gives you 'The Fizz'?

[Cervus elaphus]

OK I'll try this again. For some reason the photos that were attached to the original post disappeared or were removed??
The prop used with some of the pics was a research book- Vol III, American Military Shoulder Arms by Moller. I wouldn't think that violated any site rules but just in case I removed those images...

Pics top to bottom:

US M1841 Mississippi rifle
Left side, rear sight
Muzzle, front sight
Rifle with Peace Flask, would have been correct issue with the M1841
50 yard, 5 shot target shot with rifle- 54 cal Minie' and blackpowder

View attachment 392829View attachment 392830View attachment 392831View attachment 392832View attachment 392833

Damn that's a tight group!

 

[bruce moulds]

myra sports store in broken hill used to do 303/35s on lee enfield actions for pig shooting, and riverbrand ammunition of adelaide loaded ammunition for it using reloaded military 303 brass.
bruce.

 

[fourfive8]

Damn that's a tight group!

Thanks, I just shake my head when some of these old originals will do that! The sights are as simple as they come and the POI is exactly on top of the POA with an original style Minie' and black powder load. It's one of the reasons I really like this rifle. The sights look untouched since leaving the factory. I also have a 58 cal US M1863 T1 Springfield rifle musket, a 58 cal US M1861 Trenton contract rifle musket and a 577 cal P53 Enfield carbine that will do the same thing with Minies' and black powder. Besides the ballistic performance of these, the workmanship of 160+ years ago that went into them really has to be appreciated. Most of the locks are exceptional in fit and mechanics.

 

[Cervus elaphus]

Thanks, I just shake my head when some of these old originals will do that! The sights are as simple as they come and the POI is exactly on top of the POA with an original style Minie' and black powder load. It's one of the reasons I really like this rifle. The sights look untouched since leaving the factory. I also have a 58 cal US M1863 T1 Springfield rifle musket and a 58 cal US M1861 Trenton contract rifle musket that will do the same thing with Minies' and black powder. Besides the ballistic performance of these, the workmanship of 160+ years ago that went into them really has to be appreciated. Most of the locks are exceptional in fit and mechanics.

great!. have you fired the Minie at 100 yds? looking at the 50 group it looks like it would still score 10 at double the distance. More than mpressive for a firearm that old. Another question, has it been put through a chrono?

 

[fourfive8]

Yes, the 54 with that load and Minie' is about 5" low at 100 yds and the group stays circular at about 1 1/2". The front sight is only .6" above center of bore line so the sight geometry is very "flat' so to speak. The problem at 100 yds and beyond becomes sight-target resolution- just the nature of open sights. The MInies' are perfectly stable out at 100 yards and beyond judging by the shape of the holes in targets shot at longer ranges. That 54 cal Lyman #533476 Minie' cast of pure lead weighs 410 gr. I checked the velocity a few years and IIRC 1050-60 fps with the 54 gr FF charge. I could boost the ballistics slightly and flatten the trajectory a little by increasing to the original service charge for both RB and Minies' with 75 gr of FFF. But too nice the way it is now to change.



This rifle's sight zero is quite bit different from most other sighted rifle muskets of the day up through the 1860s and even into the black powder cartridge era of the US Trapdoors. All those including the ones with adjustable rears or flip up leaves seem to have a minimum zero range with standard loads of about 100-200 yds. Where the POI can be easily be 6-10" high at 50 yds with the rear sight set at minimum. To be more user friendly on some of those, I've simply added a taller front blade- that can be reversed by replacing with the original front in the future for returning to original.

 

[Cervus elaphus]

myra sports store in broken hill used to do 303/35s on lee enfield actions for pig shooting, and riverbrand ammunition of adelaide loaded ammunition for it using reloaded military 303 brass.
bruce.

I looked up the Adelaide ammo website and the firm is still going but no sign of the 35-303 ammo or bullets. Myra Sports Broken Hill appears to have gone. I found some approx ballistics for the .303 conversion, 225gr @ 2250fps (2529fp energy) quite modest & suitable as a scrub gun for pigs etc. the Whelen has the edge with velocity and energy. Two different 35's in two different cases - the Whelen with the larger capacity case. interesting stuff. cheers

 

[1dirthawker]

Wishing for a Zoli 450/400 NE with a second set of barrels in 12ga, large frame.
with a matching gun in 9.3x74R with a second set of barrels in 7x65R, smaller frame.....

i have an o/u zoli in 450/400 maybe my favorite rifle, right behind my browning T bolt in 17 hmr, stainless/laminate....it just fits, and i seldom miss with it.

 

[bruce moulds]

i thought riverbrand went the way of the dinosaurs not long after its owner died.
will look it up.
the 303/35s would not have been loaded hot, and might from memory have used lighter bullets as well.
the myra version might well have differed from the territorian.
bruce.

 

[bruce moulds]

just chased down something that said syd churches was taipan and riverbrand.
this is wrong.
syd was taipan projectiles, and riverbrand was owned by ron holmes, a completely different company.
taipan might still be going in some form.
bruce.

 

[Cervus elaphus]

just chased down something that said syd churches was taipan and riverbrand.
this is wrong.
syd was taipan projectiles, and riverbrand was owned by ron holmes, a completely different company.
taipan might still be going in some form.
bruce.

Here
www.bulletmaker.com/Bults/Jret.htm

 

[bruce moulds]

just chased down something that said syd churches was taipan and riverbrand.
this is wrong.
syd was taipan projectiles, and riverbrand was owned by ron holmes, a completely different company.
taipan might still be going in some form.
bruce.

 

[Cervus elaphus]

just chased down something that said syd churches was taipan and riverbrand.
this is wrong.
syd was taipan projectiles, and riverbrand was owned by ron holmes, a completely different company.
taipan might still be going in some form.
bruce.

I think the best .303 conversion in Australia is the .303-25 (257). It will knock over everything from foxes to deer. I bet there's more than one poster on this forum who has or had one.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I can’t wait to try mine, @Cervus elaphus

 

[bruce moulds]

don't know how my last post reappeared

 

[Cervus elaphus]

I can’t wait to try mine, @Cervus elaphus

more info Wyatt ? what are you going to use it on?

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I’m building it on a No.4. It will be open sight for a while. I will use it for groundhogs, coyotes, and hopefully the occasional whitetail

 

[bruce moulds]

don't worry wyatt, you will get over it.
bruce.

 

[Cervus elaphus]

I’m building it on a No.4. It will be open sight for a while. I will use it for groundhogs, coyotes, and hopefully the occasional whitetail

Sounds good. Are you in PA?. post some photos some time

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Illinois.

Sounds good. Are you in PA?. post some photos some time

 

[Wyatt Smith]

don't worry wyatt, you will get over it.
bruce.

Sorry Bruce, but what I will get over?