What makes a stock mitigate recoil better?

[Kootenay Hunter]

Good day All,

My lady is away this weekend, so I have uninterrupted wood shop time and a dozen beers, subsequently I am working on a couple rifle stocks.

The first stock is a practice stock in black walnut (I have not made one in a while, and the ones I have made have been two piece stocks for ruger no.1's, vice a single piece bolt action stock) the practice stock will be the new home of a husky 6.5x55.
The second stock is for a 9.3x64 I recently bought (FN Supreme action with a heym barrel put together by Ralph Martini). The rifle shoots well, but came with a custom composite stock that is to light, which makes the gun too light. The whole rifle with optic and sling is 8.00 lbs. With 250gr loads is it manageable, but running the 285's the recoil is a bit terse. The other day on the range I put 25 rounds through it of 285gr oryx working up a load, and by the end I found it rather unpleasant. It also scope cut the bejesus out of a guy who wanted to try it out; I had given him fair warning.

Once I am done with the practice stock, I am going to move to the 9.3x64 stock in an attempt to get it to a target weight of 9-9.5 lbs. Numerous places on the forum I have seen people comment that proper stock shape mitigates recoil. So with that context in mind...

What are the characteristic stock design element that help mitigate recoil? Thanks.

 

[USMA84DAB]

1. Wide/large butt - look at a Mosin-Nagant for what NOT to do!
2. Comb is in line with the bore/not dropped, rounded and wide so it doesn't knife into the shooter's cheekbone
3. A grippable fore end
4. A more vertical pistol grip that can help to pull the stock back into the shoulder
5. Thickness for weight/mass to absorb the recoil - this fights directly against being nice to carry all day

My $.02 worth

 

[MS 9x56]

1. Wide/large butt - look at a Mosin-Nagant for what NOT to do!
2. Comb is in line with the bore/not dropped, rounded and wide so it doesn't knife into the shooter's cheekbone
3. A grippable fore end
4. A more vertical pistol grip that can help to pull the stock back into the shoulder
5. Thickness for weight/mass to absorb the recoil - this fights directly against being nice to carry all day

My $.02 worth

Sounds like you are describing the European design CZ 550 stock. One other item I would add is the LOP must fit the shooter. Too short or too long both enhance recoil.

 

[USMA84DAB]

YES! LOP is very important - missed that one.

The European stocks seem to drop at the comb and that accentuates perceived recoil.

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

Everything usma84dab said (that user name makes mine look simple when you need to type it out)) anyway, I’d look at some stocks made by professional stock makers(internet is good here) and maybe try some rifles at a gun store to see what fits you and is comfortable to shoulder. This will give you some ideas that you can combine to help pick what works best for your needs. The one and only full stock I made (seem to be mostly two piece one that I’ve done) I basically copied an old rigby stock and just changed the cheek piece. And fit a good quality butt pad like the 1 1/8" limbsaver pads or similar
Gumpy

 

[Kootenay Hunter]

Thanks for the advice guys, I made some pretty decent progress on the practice stock yesterday. The bottom metal is inletted, and outline is cut. I did sand one section and throw some oil on it to get an idea of how it is going to look. It needs a lot more work, but is coming along.

 

[Paul K]

That stock is nothing but...... WOW!

Paul

 

[Rifleman97]

I personally prefer the opposite of Monte Carlo stocks these days for recoil. Look up McMillan Game Warden LR (long range) to see what I mean.

The butt pad actually goes higher than the bore on that stock, keeping the recoil much more in line. The more drop the stock has the more muzzle rise you will have.

 

[Nhoro]

I would add that balance has a big impact on felt recoil. Barrel heavy or butt heavy seems to increase the felt recoil. I drilled into the butt of my 458 and put lead weights so that it balances just infront of the trigger guard.

 

[Kootenay Hunter]

That stock is nothing but...... WOW!

Paul

Honestly that one is just a piece of black walnut that came from a live edge slab. The local fine wood store was selling the slab for $50 since it had some really back checking in it. I was able to cut that out of it, plus enough for a 2 piece stock.


I made this stock for my 500NE, from a chunk of New Zealand walnut.Much nicer IMO.

 

[Rifleman97]

I personally prefer the opposite of Monte Carlo stocks these days for recoil. Look up McMillan Game Warden LR (long range) to see what I mean.

The butt pad actually goes higher than the bore on that stock, keeping the recoil much more in line. The more drop the stock has the more muzzle rise you will have.

Missed the edit window, meant to include "for scoped guns"

For iron sights the current winchester safari express has ergonomics I like, with the buttpad as high as it can be while also being able to get a good cheek weld to see the sights well without looking over them. But most of my guns are scoped anyways. When my next barreled action gets here I'll be attempting a McMillan Game Warden shape with a royal walnut stock. I also prefer straight comb or negative comb (weatherby style) to not beat up my cheek.

Honestly that one is just a piece of black walnut that came from a live edge slab. The local fine wood store was selling the slab for $50 since it had some really back checking in it. I was able to cut that out of it, plus enough for a 2 piece stock.


I made this stock for my 500NE, from a chunk of New Zealand walnut.Much nicer IMO. View attachment 702575

That's a really nice looking stock! Looks really matte, especially on the forend, was that unfinished or do you just prefer a really matte look?

 

[Ontario Hunter]

If the gun is balanced, proper LOP, and of sufficient weight, getting punched in the cheek should not be an issue with moderate Monte Carlo design. Not the old goofy roll-over crap! Because I hunt with a scope, I prefer a raised cheek rest that will give immediate acquisition when gun is mounted.

 

[Kootenay Hunter]

Missed the edit window, meant to include "for scoped guns"

For iron sights the current winchester safari express has ergonomics I like, with the buttpad as high as it can be while also being able to get a good cheek weld to see the sights well without looking over them. But most of my guns are scoped anyways. When my next barreled action gets here I'll be attempting a McMillan Game Warden shape with a royal walnut stock. I also prefer straight comb or negative comb (weatherby style) to not beat up my cheek.


That's a really nice looking stock! Looks really matte, especially on the forend, was that unfinished or do you just prefer a really matte look?

For me finish depends on the application. That rifle was for a trip to Africa, and while it may go back, it is not a daily driver, subsequently I did not want a shiny stock that might give me away. I did another Ruger no.1 as my test stock before I did that one, and it was with shedua wood, on a 450/400 nitro. For that one I did about 15 coats of tru oil, and it is really shiny. that stock is much better for wet weather.
So long story short, that one is intentionally matte finished, I sometimes do a really shiny stock, some in the middle. But I have only made a few stocks, and finished a few rough stocks.

Here is the ruger stock I glossed up:

 

[Rifleman97]

If the gun is balanced, proper LOP, and of sufficient weight, getting punched in the cheek should not be an issue with moderate Monte Carlo design. Not the old goofy roll-over crap! Because I hunt with a scope, I prefer a raised cheek rest that will give immediate acquisition when gun is mounted.

You misunderstood, the monte carlo isn't about the cheek design. I was meaning the drop at heel. Having a monte carlo means the butt is lower, meaning that the muzzle will rise more. Simple physics. The angle of the comb is what I was talking about when I said that I prefer straight or negative to avoid cheek bruising on the heavy hitters.

This is the game warden. You'll notice the heel is actually negative, or rather the top of the buttstock is actually "above" the bore and almost above the whole action. I've seen videos of a guy only swapping the stock in the same gun and the difference in muzzle rise between this and a traditional monte carlo is truly shocking.

The game warden design actually gives you a higher cheek position than a traditional monte carlo

 

[Brian]

Lots of good suggestions posted.

I hunt with a big bore, felt recoil is one of my favourite topic. I have done some of the same things as posted above to make my big bore easier to shoot.

First, the beautiful old traditions/classics stocks are all about handling charateristics and shooting off-hand with no sticks. A stock with 1.5" - 2.5" drop and more goes back to the black powder era.

A rifle that "kicks" less looks different than the beautifully shaped tradition stocked rifle. Two examples would be the McMillan Game Warden above and the Blaser R8,

Here's what works for me:
1. Add weigh forward helps hold the muzzle down during recoil. (Also makes it steadier to hold.)
Epoxy a weight in a the forend.

2. Thick pistol grip and forend like the McMillan above helps shooter hold rifle firmly.
3 Wide recoil pad. This makes a big difference, also make it ugly. Save your original recoil pad.
4. Straight stock with comb parallel to bore, like McMillan above or Blaser R8, makes a big difference.
5. Muzzle brake works magic but is controversial. "What about the PH, He won't like it."
PH has three options if you use a muzzle brake, most PH's choose the last one.. It a free world.

- Hold his hand(s) over his ear the moment you shoot.
- Ear muffs or plugs, like every other intelligent person who is around loud noises wears.
The elecronic muffs are great and getting very affordable.
- Go deaf, just like me, because I was too stubborn to wear ear protection.

The PH should be happy if the client uses a muzzle brake, it helps the client make a better shot with a big bore and results in better/quicker kills. This is a good thing with dangerous game, right?

Sometimes I hunt cape buffalo with a warm loaded 50-110 Win. in an 8 lb. TC Encore single shot.
( .410 gr CEB bullet at 2,100 fps. That is pretty close to the 500 NE! Ask any cape buffalo. )

I have altered it as I describe above. Yes, some people think it's ugly, including me, but your grandmother could shoot it accurately.

 

[Kootenay Hunter]

Well Gents, I was able to put another 5 or so hrs in this weekend. I have to say it is a littler sloppier than I would have liked, and inletting is something where you measure three times and cut once. I also wish I had some better chisels!
I am bedding it tonight, and then this weekend I will start the exterior shaping.

 

[steve white]

What several are describing is a cheek piece that recoils "out from under" YOUR cheek. The Weatherby, despite being Monte Carlo was designed to do this. The Game Warden stock appears to do so. As well as the European hogback if properly designed--such a stock made a 458 Win Mag recoil less than a 375 H&H Ruger No. 1 tropical that I helped sight in. Don't know all the reasons why that Ruger was miserable to shoot, but the stock on the 458 I am convinced was the reason it was comparatively easier to manage, despite housing a heavier cartridge. The ultimate wide cheek, heavy stock is the A Square, if that's the route you want to go.
I think a larger butt pad can be seamlessly designed into a stock.

Would it be out of bounds to register opinions of mechanical recoil reducers, like the hydraulic ones?

 

[Kootenay Hunter]

Been slow going with work and summer getting in the way, but I finished the outer profile on the stock. Now to oil it for a month!

 

[Muskox]

Five things counter recoil

1. Surface area Width and length of recoil pad

2. Stock weight

3. Composition of the recoil pad (heavily ventilated recoil pads and those with modern rubbers, greatly dampen recoil). The modern 3D printed recoil pads like the new ones made by Weatherby are tops. The old Kick-Eeze sorbothane pads are also fantastic.

4. Stock design, the more drop at the comb the more recoil

5. Thumbhole stocks if designed correctly can counter recoil. Stocks with an asymmetrical grip, where your hand is turned at 40-60 degrees (like you are pointing at something) also counter recoil. As they give you another recoil bearing surface.

You people that think a rifle should look as it does in the 1920's or hate Art Alphin won't manage any of these things.

 

[Rifleman97]

Five things counter recoil

1. Surface area Width and length of recoil pad

2. Stock weight

3. Composition of the recoil pad (heavily ventilated recoil pads and those with modern rubbers, greatly dampen recoil). The modern 3D printed recoil pads like the new ones made by Weatherby are tops. The old Kick-Eeze sorbothane pads are also fantastic.

4. Stock design, the more drop at the comb the more recoil

5. Thumbhole stocks if designed correctly can counter recoil. Stocks with an asymmetrical grip, where your hand is turned at 40-60 degrees (like you are pointing at something) also counter recoil. As they give you another recoil bearing surface.

You people that think a rifle should look as it does in the 1920's or hate Art Alphin won't manage any of these things.

To add to stock design, angle of comb has a lot to do with it. Based on post #18 OP ignored all the rules of mitigating recoil and used every tactic to make it worse lol. Tons of drip at comb, drop at heel, a downward angled comb so the recoil goes right into your cheek bone, if that red piece is in fact a butt pad, holy smokes that will do next to nothing. It looks really nice imo, but if I was making a stock for anything with more kick than a 35 Whelen, or 338 win mag, it would not look anything like the stock OP ended up carving. Some people manage recoil more than others, and if he can still shoot it regardless of that design then great! But it would be managing the recoil “in spite of” that shape, not because of it

I’ve certainly sacrificed functionality for looks though too so I have absolutely no grounds to stand on in that regard. It’s funny though that the thread is titled stock shape to mitigate recoil, and OP ignored almost all of it