What is the predominant optics on the dark continent?

[Red Leg]

Unless I missed it, I did not see any mention of something really critical on a DG rifle: eye relief. For high recoil rifles, every 1/4" counts...

My .416 Rigby wears a Leica Visus i 1-4x24 because:

• It has the best glass money can buy. Schott glass made from Baltic Sea sands is the best in the world, period. This is well recognized in the scientific instrumentation community. I do not know what is geologically different with the Baltic Sea sands, but the glass they produce is better. This is what made Zeiss famous to begin with...

• It has the best glass coatings money could buy at the time. I reckon that every new generation (Magnus, Victory, Z8, Exos, etc.) improves incrementally on this front.

• It has all the magnification at the high end (4x) that I could ever want on a .416.

• It has 1x magnification at the low end, which allows me to shoot very quickly with both eyes open, up-close.

• It has a daylight-visible red dot, which is a little faster to focus on than the crosshair.

• It only has a 24 mm objective, which is not great for light-gathering capability, but that it is OK because I will not shoot elephant, hippo, or buffalo at dusk;

• Most importantly: it has the shortest ocular eye piece (3”), and the longest eye relief (4”) of all the straight tube scopes that I know off – many have these two numbers reversed - so it is virtually impossible for the scope to hit me under recoil during a snap shot. An additional 1/2" of eye relief is HUGE on a DG rifle that can see snap shooting... Swarovski used to have a specific EE (Extended Eye relief) Z6 1-6x24 scope for DG rifles. Sadly they discontinued it.

Conversely, my .375 H&H, which is more versatile than my .416 Rigby, wears a Leica ER i 2.5-10x42 for all the same reasons except:

• It has all the magnification on the high end that I want on PG. I typically use 6x out of old habits and virtually never use 10x, but it does not hurt being there.

• It has a 42 mm objective, which I want, because the .375 H&H can be used at dawn or dusk (leopard on bait is the perfect reason why a 42 mm objective is desirable). This mathematically guaranties me that at 6x I will have a 7 mm light beam reach my eye at full pupil dilatation in low light (42 mm / 6x = 7 mm beam). A 24 mm tube at 6x only gives me a 4 mm light beam. This is OK in full daylight when my pupil shrinks to about 3.5 mm, but it is only just above half of what my eye could use at dusk and dawn.

I have a number of Zeiss, Schmidt & Bender and Swarovski purchased between the 1980's and up to the early 2000's. Side by side comparison shows that Swaro circa 1980 was visibly behind Zeiss and S&B; S&B mechanical assembly was already (and still is) second to none; and Leica circa 2010's had the best glass. I also have a recent Z3 on a .270 PG rifle, and the progress they have made compared to the 1980's is fantastic, but I still see nothing better than Leica right now, as far as glass is concerned. Japanese Zeiss are just fine but not at the same level, and Chinese Zeiss are also great but also not at the same level, and you get into glued plastic as opposed to screwed metal.

For a .404, one could still consider a 42 mm objective, but most will go with a straight tube. Based on what you can afford, I suggest:

• Leica Visus 1-4x24 or more expensive (i.e better coatings and larger variability range) Leica Magnus 1−6.3x24;
• Zeiss Conquest V4 1-4x24 or more expensive Zeiss Conquest V6 1.1-6x24;
• Swarovski Z6 1-6x24 or more expensive Swarovski Z8 1-8x24;
• Schmidt & Bender 1.1-4x24 Zenith or more expensive Schmidt & Bender 1.1-5x24 Stratos or Schmidt & Bender 1-8x24 Exos

I would put made in Czechoslovakia Meopta and made in Hungary Schmidt & Bender Klassic in a different category, just like made in China Zeiss Terra, or made in Japan Zeiss Conquest, or even made in US Swarovski Z3 are, compared to their German or Austrian Victory, Z8 or Exos high end counterparts. This is not due to QC, or quality of labor, etc. but it is due to the latest and greatest coatings formula and vapor deposition technology that are typically not exported by the parent companies.

Yes, Leupold will work just fine, and so will others, and you will never know the difference between a top line Leica/Zeiss/S&B/Swaro and a Leupold until you look through them, yourself, side by side, during the first 15 or the last 15 minutes of light in the day. Then you will be like those of us who did it, and you will say: "Dang! I had no idea!"

Admittedly, there is very little difference, if any, at bright high noon.

Truly, this is the catch: you really do not know what you miss, until you do. Then you can never go back...

And this is not brand snobbery. I will take a Magnus, Victory, Z8, Exos over a Leupold VX-6, but I will take a Leupold VX-5 over a Zeiss Terra any day...

This post sums up my personal observations very closely.

There is a tendency, regardless of the product, to say my $300 whatever is just as good as that guy's $3000 whatever. We feel even better when someone else agrees with us. We even feel better when we call the 3K guys snobs and the like. However, what we really should be saying is that my $300 whatever is just as good as that guy's $3000 for the purpose for which I use it. The first statement is typically nonsense, while the second can be absolutely true. I currently have scopes by Leupold, Leica, Zeiss, Swarovski, and Schmidt & Bender on my rifles. They range from .22LR through 500-416 and all work for the purpose for which they are intended. I have one of the ubiquitous one-inch Leupold 2.5x8 VX III's on a takedown Westley Richards .318 of all things (It has a period G&H sidemount and only 1-inch rings will work). For the shooting that I do with the WR, it is fine, but it is not the same as looking through the Leica's on many of its stablemates.

As @One Day... suggests, I too would take a Leupold VX-6 over a Zeiss Terra or Conquest. But a Zeiss Victory is a very different thing. However, it is perfectly ok not to need a Zeiss Victory for the purpose for which you need a scope.

 

[TTundra]

for the purpose for which I use it.

^^^This Statement...can apply to many facets in outfitting for a hunt

I love comparing optics to cars. If you want .1 seconds faster in that run, you'll spend thousands to get it...because you want it, need it, or appreciate it. Though it still only goes point A to point B.
I love my '97 OBS 7.3 PSD. More fun to drive than my 13 SD Lariat. Lariat is way more comfortable interior wise, but just not as 'fun' of a truck. I appreciate the Lariats comforts, but they still pull the same loads and trailers I use them for.

In optics, within reason, and taking into account what D2C margin companies can* bring you; you should spend what will fulfill your hunting application and what you want, need, or appreciate. That can be a $300 or $3000 scope, with a tested and reputable brand, either are great choices, if you appreciate what they do for you.

 

[cal]

This will be going on a 404 Jeffery.I all but have nailed down a builder. It will be a all around style scope. I am thinking 1-8x. Because if and when I get to go to Africa I would like to use one rifle. I would like to buff hunt but, while I’m there I would love kudu and plains game.

Is a first focal plans or second better? I have used both

30 mm , 34m tube better?

I am in a very similar position to you. I am also busy looking for a scope for my new .404 Jeff. Have you looked at the Nightforce NX8 1-8. Its the 'cheaper' of the two NF 1-8's. One of the biggest reasons why I like the scope is its smaller size and light weight while still offering the 1-8 magnification. I like the reticle and the glass looks good. But my concern now is the that its short length coupled with the large action might mean that with the scope in a comfortable position for my eye it will not reach the front ring. Its very difficult getting hold of one of these scopes in South Africa to test so I was wondering if anyone had any experience with mounting this scope onto a large caliber rifle?

 

[IvW]

I am in a very similar position to you. I am also busy looking for a scope for my new .404 Jeff. Have you looked at the Nightforce NX8 1-8. Its the 'cheaper' of the two NF 1-8's. One of the biggest reasons why I like the scope is its smaller size and light weight while still offering the 1-8 magnification. I like the reticle and the glass looks good. But my concern now is the that its short length coupled with the large action might mean that with the scope in a comfortable position for my eye it will not reach the front ring. Its very difficult getting hold of one of these scopes in South Africa to test so I was wondering if anyone had any experience with mounting this scope onto a large caliber rifle?

Just get a Lybx 1-6x20 30mm tube lifetime guarantee, freely available in SA, full back up service, long eye relief, especially made for magnum actions, excellent glass, made in Japan....same glass as Nightforce.....what more you need.....

 

[cal]

Just get a Lybx 1-6x20 30mm tube lifetime guarantee, freely available in SA, full back up service, long eye relief, especially made for magnum actions, excellent glass, made in Japan....same glass as Nightforce.....what more you need.....

Thanks I will have a look at this. I hadn't actually considered Lynx.

 

[Lhleggtowner]

I use a Swarovski Z6i 1.7-10x42 (BT) on my big bores.

I have done more digging and this seems to be a really all around scope. What reticle did you use?

 

[Lhleggtowner]

There have been numerous suggestions made for "good" scopes, but no mention of reticle. I have a German #4 Reticle in the scope of my 404 Jeffery as well as on my 416 Rigby. Lots of guys are going to scopes with a lighted reticle or dot. Those options make good sense to me.

Love that you put that info in there. I was wondering about the reticle also. Thanks

 

[Lhleggtowner]

Personally I am sold on Swarovski scopes for a dangerous game rifle I would recommend a variable in either 1 to 5 or 1 1/2 to 5. If I was going with one of the Z series and was using bases that are secured with screws I would go with 8X40 screws. The new range of scopes are heavy another consideration is the reticle. I prefer the DG reticle or Batue it really seems to draw your eye to the target. Do not go with a fine reticle! Illuminated reticles are another nice feature especially at dawn and dusk. Good glass can make or break a hunt!

Great info. Thanks.

 

[JLF]

In a rifle of that caliber I would put a good set of open sights. But to advise you no more than 1-4x42 ... Meopta, Schmidt & Bender ...

 

[Lhleggtowner]

I am in a very similar position to you. I am also busy looking for a scope for my new .404 Jeff. Have you looked at the Nightforce NX8 1-8. Its the 'cheaper' of the two NF 1-8's. One of the biggest reasons why I like the scope is its smaller size and light weight while still offering the 1-8 magnification. I like the reticle and the glass looks good. But my concern now is the that its short length coupled with the large action might mean that with the scope in a comfortable position for my eye it will not reach the front ring. Its very difficult getting hold of one of these scopes in South Africa to test so I was wondering if anyone had any experience with mounting this scope onto a large caliber rifle?

Actually I have. What I can tell.... the low power nf scopes do not have the finer adjustments. While the nx8 does not have covered turrets the atacr does. Unless I haven’t seen one. I wonder about the eye box. I personally think scope relief is hugely important on a heavy hitter. I do like the nf line and looking at it. I have narrowed it down to a swaro 6i or a nf. Strange combo but I like both of them.

 

[Tanks]

I have done more digging and this seems to be a really all around scope. What reticle did you use?

It comes with only one, illuminated reticle. More details here:

https://www.swarovskioptik.com/hunting/z6-i-1p7-10x42-bt-c20051003/z6i-1p7-10x42-l-4a-i-p5006205

 

[R.M.C.]

I've had great luck with leupold but given the caliber I would definitely go for the higher end leupolds.

 

[machinistbutler]

I am going to try a Razor 1-6 on my new 458 Lott. Glass seems nice, ret is bold and great illumination. Eye box is forgiving and huge eye relief.

I love Schmidt & Bender, but the price was too good on this not to try it.

Eye relief was a big factor for me in choosing it. Have it in Warne Qd mounts.

Craig

 

[Bullet Safaris]

This will be going on a 404 Jeffery.I all but have nailed down a builder. It will be a all around style scope. I am thinking 1-8x. Because if and when I get to go to Africa I would like to use one rifle. I would like to buff hunt but, while I’m there I would love kudu and plains game.

Is a first focal plans or second better? I have used both

30 mm , 34m tube better?

Leupold is fine. Durable. At least all there older versions are (I understand they retooled there manufacturing to be more 'efficient')

Zeiss Swarovski also great and more $

Go with heavy crosshair on that gun due to it's designed use on big things close up!

Focal plain - dont worry

On that gun (404) I'd go with detachable mounts if you plan to hunt buffalo. A few good ones out there, I've had BAD luck with leupold on these and good luck with Talley and German claw style.

It is not the best set up for plainsgame and may limit you a little unless you are very good at shooting it and know how it drops etc. (Also depend a lot on where you plan to hunt).

 

[Bert the Turtle]

My 404 wears a z6i 1-6, circle dot reticle and it is about perfect for that rifle.

I have a z8i on my 375 and do not think it is worth the extra expense to put one on a 404. I would not put my 1.7-10 on either rifle

I STRONGLY advise you get something with true 1 power and a reticle suitable for close-in work. And you leave it on 1 power at all times until and unless you have a present need for higher power.

While many people will recommend taking the scope off for follow-up of dangerous game, and I do enjoy shooting iron sights, my personal belief is that such advice is outdated so long as you are using optics appropriate to the task. Think about it: every military in the world that can afford it is putting optics on their combat rifles not only to increase their effectiveness at range but to increase effectiveness up close. While I don't think a good set of irons with a good set of eyes in decent lighting is giving up much, it is no faster than putting the target inside a circle with only one focal plane for your eyes to deal with. That is assuming your stock is set up properly for such.

 

[R.M.C.]

I agree with Bert the Turtle. I can't see how open sights on anything could be quicker than a 1x scope. Put the crosshairs on the buff and shoot. Seems like lining up front and rear sights and the buff complicates things . Just my two cents

 

[Lhleggtowner]

Leupold is fine. Durable. At least all there older versions are (I understand they retooled there manufacturing to be more 'efficient')

Zeiss Swarovski also great and more $

Go with heavy crosshair on that gun due to it's designed use on big things close up!

Focal plain - dont worry

On that gun (404) I'd go with detachable mounts if you plan to hunt buffalo. A few good ones out there, I've had BAD luck with leupold on these and good luck with Talley and German claw style.

It is not the best set up for plainsgame and may limit you a little unless you are very good at shooting it and know how it drops etc. (Also depend a lot on where you plan to hunt).

Thanks so much for the info. Talley is what I am going with. I was thinking if I done a combo hunt , and got a shot at a kudu or some other plains game while buff hunting I could take a shot. Right now swaro 6i is in the lead. I do like the Nightforce tho. Thanks for the input. It is highly valued

 

[Lhleggtowner]

My 404 wears a z6i 1-6, circle dot reticle and it is about perfect for that rifle.

I have a z8i on my 375 and do not think it is worth the extra expense to put one on a 404. I would not put my 1.7-10 on either rifle

I STRONGLY advise you get something with true 1 power and a reticle suitable for close-in work. And you leave it on 1 power at all times until and unless you have a present need for higher power.

While many people will recommend taking the scope off for follow-up of dangerous game, and I do enjoy shooting iron sights, my personal belief is that such advice is outdated so long as you are using optics appropriate to the task. Think about it: every military in the world that can afford it is putting optics on their combat rifles not only to increase their effectiveness at range but to increase effectiveness up close. While I don't think a good set of irons with a good set of eyes in decent lighting is giving up much, it is no faster than putting the target inside a circle with only one focal plane for your eyes to deal with. That is assuming your stock is set up properly for such.

The z6 is the top of the list now. As you all chime in it looks like a true 1x could be the way to go. Thanks for the info.

 

[ZG47]

I had an interesting conversation with a representative of a high end German rifle company and the price of glass came up.
I asked the question of why Swarovski are so damn expensive? Is it really all about the quality? Are they so much better?

His answer was interesting, he asked me if I had ever seen advertising for said maker?
Have I seen the glossy magazine full page ads, the posters and fabulous glass cases, the floor to ceiling drapes with a hunter on a mountainside holding his high end binoculars?

Of course, I said yes, he said, there you go, that's why certain makers charge more for their products. An awful lot of money is needed for their promotions and glossy adverts.

The retail price of a Sako rifle (or accessory) in New Zealand is directly related to Beretta New Zealand’s advertising budget!

 

[Bullet Safaris]

Open sight are quick.
They are reliable.
Practice with them.

When chips are down at less that 15 yards a scope is only in the way regardless of power and you will only need to shoulder and put the front blade on the buffalo.

If he's standing at 30 or 40 you will have the time to hit him well with either option.

Dont sacrifice Top end magnification on a buffalo gun for the 1x emergency idea.
The upper range of magnification is very important to a client hunter (average age 60 years and eye sight is going down for most) 4x or 6x just isnt a lot when there is a sea of black bodies at 85 yards or when a bull is bedding in the shade in a thicket... it happens every season without fail that a low power scope costs a hunter a trophy buffalo because he cant see it.

I want the hunter to see what I see (or more) through my 8x binoculars with 20/20 vision.
This leads to a better chance at a good first shot...prevents problems and is the most important shot.

Very true that these 1x to 9 or 10 or more can do it all. They are pretty new and a good development for dangerous game rifles.

1x capable or not I'll still ask you to take it off when we follow up in 8 foot grass or thick bush!
It's a covey flush at that point boys and I dont see many scopes quail guns