Westley Richards article about Exploras / capable or compromise ?

[Red Leg]

Can rifled choke tubes, if fitted to modern shotgun be compared to paradox or explora gun?
Same question for paradox slug ammunition, can it be compared to shotgun slugs, or sabot slugs (on rifled chokes)?

One could, but it would not be a Paradox and I have no idea how it could be regulated. Moreover, it would not be a practical gun for shooting shot unless other tubes were put in. The genius of the Fosbery design is that the same barrels that shoot those sub-three inch 100 yd groups also throw perfect IM patterns of No. 6 shot from both barrels. Genius.

And yes, for a young officer headed to the Raj early in the last century, such a broadly useful gun was just about ideal.

 

[PerH]

Brenneke borrowed much of the Paradox ammo and switched the bullet around and that was his bullet . Simplified it and made it available for many

Brenneke – German Hunting Guns

Bengt Berg’s Fantastic Set of Simson Guns – German Hunting Guns

His Paradox sets were made in Germany , but regulated for English ammo for them .

So there were a quanta of ammo around .

And Brenneke ammo can be fired in Paradox barrels also as the epic piece say

 

[mark-hunter]

Genius.

Amazing! Thanks for comment!

 

[Red Leg]

Brenneke borrowed much of the Paradox ammo and switched the bullet around and that was his bullet . Simplified it and made it available for many

Brenneke – German Hunting Guns

Bengt Berg’s Fantastic Set of Simson Guns – German Hunting Guns

His Paradox sets were made in Germany , but regulated for English ammo for them .

So there were a quanta of ammo around .

And Brenneke ammo can be fired in Paradox barrels also as the epic piece say

Other than it is a large piece of lead, there is very little in the Brenneke design that is like a Paradox. What he did do was create a slug that could be safely fired through any choke from a standard shotgun. The ribs on the slug allowed deformation to fit through a tight choke while the attached wadding provided some stability in flight to the non-spinning projectile.

Obviously, a Paradox is also far more accurate than a SxS shotgun firing a slug.

The concept of firing both shot and ball was quite common in muzzle loading "fowlers" of the 18th and early 19th century. The more conical Brenneke design was much heavier than round ball, making it much more effective on wild boar.

 

[Pondoro]

An 8-Bore Explora Safari - It seemed like a good idea at the time / The Explora - Premier Online Field Sports & Gun Journal

“Explora” was Westley’s trade name for its line of heavy smoothbore guns with, shall we say, a twist. In 1885, George V. Fosbery—b

www.westleyrichards.com

 

[Kdgj]

dupe

 

[PCC600]

Just the opposite. WR used those names because they still could not use the still patented Paradox name itself.

No I am certain I am right . The Fosbery patent was held by H&H and they marketed their rifled choke gun as the Paradox . The patent lapsed in 1899 or 1900 . Other gun makers then could use the rifled chokes but not the Paradox name which was registered to H&H . WR did not introduce their rifled choke Explora until 1905 and subsequently introduced their Magnum and Super Magnum Exploras . H&H still continued marketing their Paradox and I believe have made one or two in the last 10 to 15 years .

 

[Hunter-Habib]

The “Rifled Choke” ball & shot gun was an extremely popular concept during the British colonial era. So far as my records show, at least 17 manufacturers offered 12 gauge weapons built on this principle.

GREAT BRITAIN
1) Holland & Holland (2.5”, 2.75” or 3” Magnum chambers)
2) Westley Richards (2.5” or 2.75” chambers)
3) W.J Jeffery (2.5” chambers)
4) R.B Rodda & Co. (2.5” chambers)
5) John Rigby & Co. (2.5” chambers)
6) Charles Lancaster (2.5” chambers)
7) W.W Greener (2.5” chambers)
8) William Evans (2.5” chambers)
9) Lyon & Lyon (2.5” chambers)
10) F.T Baker (3” Magnum chambers)
11) Isaac Hollis & Sons (2.5” chambers)
12) Midland Gun Company (2.5“ chambers)
13) Webley & Scott (2.5” chambers)
14) Manton & Co. (2.5” chambers)
15) Army & Navy (2.5” chambers)

I’m honestly quite surprised that James Purdey & Sons never offered any firearms built on this principle.

FRANCE
ManuFrance (2.5”, 2.75” or 3” Magnum chambers)

BELGIUM
Raick Freres (3” Magnum chambers)

Holland & Holland and Westley Richards offered large caliber Paradox/Explora guns in 8 &10 gauge, while the others offered them in no bore size larger than 12. Holland & Holland offered 8 & 10 gauge Paradox guns until 1910 and the 12 gauge versions until 1931(most other manufacturers had already ceased production of them long before then). The 8 & 10 gauge variants were quite successful against both thick & thin skinned dangerous game. Colonel W.T Thom (author of “Wild Sports In Burma”) and Harold G.C Swayne (author of “Seventeen Trips Through Somaliland”) both extensively made use of the Holland & Holland 8 gauge Paradox on all Asian & African dangerous game up to elephant bulls.
The 12 gauge variants were more intended for thin skinned dangerous game (tigers, lions, leopards, bears, boars).

Now, @PerH … to answer your question:
These firearms were indeed a compromise. With shot cartridges, they achieved improved cylinder patterns so they were predominantly built with upland birds in mind rather than wild fowl. Also, with bullet cartridges… they were mainly optimized for ranges under 100 yards. But they were extremely useful things to own, especially when hunting snipe or francolin for the pot… in terrain where one was likely to cross paths with a Royal Bengal tiger or lion.

 

[PerH]

Roald Amundsen - Explorer & Westley Richards Client / The Explora - Premier Online Field Sports & Gun Journal

He was world famous for his careful and meticulous planning for expeditions and he would have carefully researched the best place to go fo

www.westleyrichards.com

Nansen had also the fondness of Paradox , I’ll get some pictures of a book . His guns are with his family in Oslo . They are a pair of HH Paradox 12 bore and he got them to use in arctic . First as a replacement for his .577 Bpe double rifle lost at sea from kayak .

Then it was on basically all kind of Scandinavian game and some European game also . Grouse , moose , reindeer , red deer , hare and lot more . Where he went his pair or similar went . If not rifle only or shotgun only areas.
But when in doubt ..

He had also lot of combo experience from the Greenland and Fram expedition so two barrels same ammo made it even more so .


I saw something about Beretta making chokes for Paeadox recently , but I also read a HH article about new guns they are making in Paradox , but no ammo was made at the time of writing . So all tests done with bird shot and buckshot , and that is not quite meant for it .

What’s the point making a gun if no ammo of the kind it need to be fully useful is around ?

 

[mark-hunter]

What’s the point making a gun if no ammo of the kind it need to be fully useful is around ?

In a similar story, it was how 700 NE was made.

 

[PCC600]

Roald Amundsen - Explorer & Westley Richards Client / The Explora - Premier Online Field Sports & Gun Journal

He was world famous for his careful and meticulous planning for expeditions and he would have carefully researched the best place to go fo

www.westleyrichards.com

Nansen had also the fondness of Paradox , I’ll get some pictures of a book . His guns are with his family in Oslo . They are a pair of HH Paradox 12 bore and he got them to use in arctic . First as a replacement for his .577 Bpe double rifle lost at sea from kayak .

Then it was on basically all kind of Scandinavian game and some European game also . Grouse , moose , reindeer , red deer , hare and lot more . Where he went his pair or similar went . If not rifle only or shotgun only areas.
But when in doubt ..

He had also lot of combo experience from the Greenland and Fram expedition so two barrels same ammo made it even more so .


I saw something about Beretta making chokes for Paeadox recently , but I also read a HH article about new guns they are making in Paradox , but no ammo was made at the time of writing . So all tests done with bird shot and buckshot , and that is not quite meant for it .

What’s the point making a gun if no ammo of the kind it need to be fully useful is around ?

The new edition of Graeme Wright’s book will include information on loads for ball and shot guns and also bore guns . But unless you can make your own bullets then they are useless as rifles which is a pity .

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

@cajunchefray There are 3 Holland Paradox’s in this next Holt’s Auction

 

[318AE]

I have an Explora I take out occasionally for blue quail in west Texas, and I usually carry a few “ball” rounds just in case something interesting shows up while I’m out and about. I’m sure many think it’s gauche to hunt quail with anything larger than a 20 gauge, but it makes for enjoyable afternoon. They remain fun guns, reflecting a different time.

 

[Red Leg]

No I am certain I am right . The Fosbery patent was held by H&H and they marketed their rifled choke gun as the Paradox . The patent lapsed in 1899 or 1900 . Other gun makers then could use the rifled chokes but not the Paradox name which was registered to H&H . WR did not introduce their rifled choke Explora until 1905 and subsequently introduced their Magnum and Super Magnum Exploras . H&H still continued marketing their Paradox and I believe have made one or two in the last 10 to 15 years .

Hate to provide unsettling physical evidence in the face of certainty, but my Evans is marked as a "Paradox."