Velocity Loss With Shorter Barrels

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Off topic kind of, but you probably wouldn’t believe that my FIRST rifle I bought at age 16, was a .444 Marlin. I was “mesmerized “ by the Marlin catalog cover with a moose charging the hunter holding his .444 Marlin! But, after shooting a couple of boxes through it, the recoil was too much for the skinny young man. So, I traded it for my Winchester.270 which I still have. Silly boy!

CoElkHunter
Silly vegemite, with new and better bullets it's an entirely different beast that beast, 280 grain woodleigh or swift Aframe. For the ultimate in penetration the 300 gn Barnes Buster.
Cheers mate don't cry.
Bob

SMLE No4 converted to 444 Marlin.
Yes I was,silly I sold it.

 

[CoElkHunter]

CoElkHunter
Silly vegemite, with new and better bullets it's an entirely different beast that beast, 280 grain woodleigh or swift Aframe. For the ultimate in penetration the 300 gn Barnes Buster.
Cheers mate don't cry.
Bob
View attachment 329207
SMLE No4 converted to 444 Marlin.
Yes I was,silly I sold it.

That’s a cool rifle! You should’ve sold it to me! Ha! I have a SMLE #? Barrel extends beyond the stock? Great, accurate rifle even with some barrel corrosion! Unique spring loaded (?) bolt. The .303 is a fine caliber and shoots 180gr Speer Hot Core great. But a .444 conversion? I was wondering what I could do with the rifle since the barrel isn’t much good anyway?
Yeah, the factory 240gr Remington ammo available at that time I owned the rifle was pretty Ballistically poor. But it still kicked!

 

[nztimb]

That’s a cool rifle! You should’ve sold it to me! Ha! I have a SMLE #? Barrel extends beyond the stock? Great, accurate rifle even with some barrel corrosion! Unique spring loaded (?) bolt. The .303 is a fine caliber and shoots 180gr Speer Hot Core great. But a .444 conversion? I was wondering what I could do with the rifle since the barrel isn’t much good anyway?
Yeah, the factory 240gr Remington ammo available at that time I owned the rifle was pretty Ballistically poor. But it still kicked!

I rebarrelled a MLE from 303 to a very slightly shortened 405 Win. Made the magazine single stack and it feeds 5-1 320 grain bullets for lots of fun shooting.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

That’s a cool rifle! You should’ve sold it to me! Ha! I have a SMLE #? Barrel extends beyond the stock? Great, accurate rifle even with some barrel corrosion! Unique spring loaded (?) bolt. The .303 is a fine caliber and shoots 180gr Speer Hot Core great. But a .444 conversion? I was wondering what I could do with the rifle since the barrel isn’t much good anyway?
Yeah, the factory 240gr Remington ammo available at that time I owned the rifle was pretty Ballistically poor. But it still kicked!

CoElkHunter

265 gummy tip after going through a pig and into a,stump.

not to shabby
Loved the 444 but a shoulder injury fixed that.

 

[sgt_zim]

CoElkHunter
It has been my experience that big bore rifles lose less velocity than small bore high velocity cartridges per inch. The high velocity lose between 25 and 50 fps per inch the big bore tends to only lose 15 to 25fps per inch. My 444 Marlin lost 38fps shortening the barrel from 24 inch to 22 inch. This was over a chronograph.
Cheers mate Bob

^^^This^^^

I shoot a 525 gr cast bullet out of my 1895 GBL. Published max velocity for that bullet with RL7 is 1705 fps. I get about 1625 fps through my rifle, and I'm not at max charge weight - seems like I'm about 1.5 gr below published max.

 

[Hogpatrol]

I cut my .17 Fireball barrel at 18" to the bolt face. Varmints out to 400 don't know the difference. Neither did a couple springbok, a warthog and a passel of RSA miscreants.

 

[USMA84DAB]

On a hunt, how much of the time does one carry the rifle? 99%+

How much of the time does one shoot the rifle?

I would submit that if you have drug yourself down/fatigued yourself by stalking all day with an extra 1-2 pounds, you won't be as quick to the shot. I guess as I age and get "experienced", I have tended to purge the extra weight - 26" vs. 20" barrels - who wants to carry the extra weight? What do grunts in combat do? They line the road with extraneous crap they realize is not essential to their mission and don't want to carry any longer. Perhaps my short stints as a grunt made an impression on my meager brain cell collection.

My understanding is that the PH won't let you shoot past 300 yards, and in my opinion a HUNTER would want to stalk closer anyway.

If I was a sniper hunting enemy Soldiers, then 26" may be important, because the basis of my utility on the battlefield would be to engage the enemy at a range that he could not effectively reciprocate - the extra velocity gained by the long barrel makes sense.

Another aspect of the 26" .375 H&H/.460 Wby Barrel - one tries to move with stealth through the bush with a pike in your hands, whereas, the 20" barrel is much more maneuverable.

I am collecting the bits and bobs needed for a .495 A-Square. I have toyed with the idea of chopping the barrel to 20" on it, simply to lessen the load while walking through the bush. I think I will start at 22" first for fear of losing too much weight for recoil attenuation. Whatever I am able to shoot with the .495 will have no clue if my barrel length was 26" or 22" - the hammer the animal is hit with will be plenty big enough.

 

[perttime]

For a handloader a slightly faster powder may gain back the velocity loss, all else being equal.

The guy with the faster powder mostly has less velocity to begin with.

-------------------

Here's a 308 velocity inch by inch test article:

https://rifleshooter.com/2014/12/30...ato-barrel-length-versus-velocity-28-to-16-5/

It is probably the same guy who has done other similar tests.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

On a hunt, how much of the time does one carry the rifle? 99%+

How much of the time does one shoot the rifle?

I would submit that if you have drug yourself down/fatigued yourself by stalking all day with an extra 1-2 pounds, you won't be as quick to the shot. I guess as I age and get "experienced", I have tended to purge the extra weight - 26" vs. 20" barrels - who wants to carry the extra weight? What do grunts in combat do? They line the road with extraneous crap they realize is not essential to their mission and don't want to carry any longer. Perhaps my short stints as a grunt made an impression on my meager brain cell collection.

My understanding is that the PH won't let you shoot past 300 yards, and in my opinion a HUNTER would want to stalk closer anyway.

If I was a sniper hunting enemy Soldiers, then 26" may be important, because the basis of my utility on the battlefield would be to engage the enemy at a range that he could not effectively reciprocate - the extra velocity gained by the long barrel makes sense.

Another aspect of the 26" .375 H&H/.460 Wby Barrel - one tries to move with stealth through the bush with a pike in your hands, whereas, the 20" barrel is much more maneuverable.

I am collecting the bits and bobs needed for a .495 A-Square. I have toyed with the idea of chopping the barrel to 20" on it, simply to lessen the load while walking through the bush. I think I will start at 22" first for fear of losing too much weight for recoil attenuation. Whatever I am able to shoot with the .495 will have no clue if my barrel length was 26" or 22" - the hammer the animal is hit with will be plenty big enough.

USMA84DAB
Loping, the barrel a couple of inches won't save much weight especially in a sporter weight barrel as the only weight about 2 and a half to 3 pounds to start with. You might save a few ounces that's all
Cheers mate Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I rebarrelled a MLE from 303 to a very slightly shortened 405 Win. Made the magazine single stack and it feeds 5-1 320 grain bullets for lots of fun shooting.
View attachment 329208

Von Gruff
Love the rifle and choice of cartridge. That crossed my mind but ammo is hard to get in OZ. Looking back I should have done it because with the No4 action it could of had a serious boost.
Cheers mate Bob

 

[CoElkHunter]

I rebarrelled a MLE from 303 to a very slightly shortened 405 Win. Made the magazine single stack and it feeds 5-1 320 grain bullets for lots of fun shooting.
View attachment 329208

Another very cool SMLE conversion! You guys need to quit teasing me!

 

[CoElkHunter]

I cut my .17 Fireball barrel at 18" to the bolt face. Varmints out to 400 don't know the difference. Neither did a couple springbok, a warthog and a passel of RSA miscreants.

No minimum caliber required in Africa for the smaller stuff? I would have figured a .22 centerfire for a minimum, but guess not?

 

[CoElkHunter]

CoElkHunter
Silly vegemite, with new and better bullets it's an entirely different beast that beast, 280 grain woodleigh or swift Aframe. For the ultimate in penetration the 300 gn Barnes Buster.
Cheers mate don't cry.
Bob
View attachment 329207
SMLE No4 converted to 444 Marlin.
Yes I was,silly I sold it.

Maybe a SMLE conversion to a .350 Remington Magnum? Always thought it was an underrated cartridge before it’s time. One can make it from 7mm Rem Mag brass.

 

[USMA84DAB]

Bob - I will send down all the barrel stubs I cut off and you can carry them in your ruck!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Another very cool SMLE conversion! You guys need to quit teasing me!

CoElkHunter
You need to do something with yours. Is it a No1 mk111 or a No4. Make a big bore really cheap. The 405 Winchester sounds great. You can PM me for details on how to do the mods. I have a few tricks others don't know. You could keep it original and really raise eyebrows when it goes baang
Cheers mate Bob

 

[Hogpatrol]

No minimum caliber required in Africa for the smaller stuff? I would have figured a .22 centerfire for a minimum, but guess not?

Game farms, different ballgame.

 

[Ridgewalker]

Where I hunt in Colorado, every ounce is a pound by the end of the day. Every inch slows getting through the brush and climbing over the deadfall. In dark timber at 9-10,000 feet lighter works better for quick shots and carrying all day.
Oh, I certain it has nothing to do with age!

 

[Standard Velocity]

26” is completely unwieldy for my needs.
24” is still a little long but useable.
22” works fine.
20” is perfectly maneuverable but getting loud.

In a bolt action rifle I prefer maneuverability over ultimate ballistic performance most often. Cartridge choice will dictate how much of a compromise each inch lopped off creates.

The amount of powder to be burned and the volume of the tube in which it is to be burned are two big factors. Think 243 Win, 260 Rem, 7mm-08, 308 Win, 338 Fed and 358 Win. Same volume of powder burning and expanding through progressively wider tubes. Most powder is burned even in 16” but the additional length for expansion gains velocity. The bigger the bullet, the larger the volume of every inch of tube. Larger projectiles also have more surface area for that gas to push against.

Huge volumes of powder for small projectiles suffer the most from short barrels (264 Win Mag). Gently sloping shoulders don’t help (300 H&H).

The only large bore cartridge I would be hesitant to cut down for fear of velocity loss would be the 458 Win Mag. Others, like the Weatherby supper smashers, wouldn’t be practical in a short barrel as velocity would drop to standard magnum with the bonus of setting off a concussion grenade at every trigger pull.

20”-22” has proven to be a pretty happy medium for me in bolt action rifles. Falling blocks will give you the same overall length but with a 26” barrel.

 

[TOBY458]

I have a 375 with a 21.25" barrel and two with 24" barrels. The average loss is around 100fps with slower burning powder such as RL15. With faster burning powder such as WW748, there is hardly any difference.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Probably not practical for the casual user/hunter but I run all my loads through QuickLoad reloading software for percentage of powder burn in various length barrels. I can try lesser powder weight and different powders relative to the each barrel length. In the end, reasonable velocity and the the target wins.