US Fish & Wildlife Service May Add Common Hippos To Endangered Species Act

[PhotoCollector73]

PeteG your premis is how it SHOULD work but with our USFWS of today they follow emotions and heart strings not science. I hope I’m wrong but with their recent track record it is doubtful.

It isn't so much that USFWS takes the emotional stance, and rather that, like I said earlier, they feel the pressure from the anti-hunting lobby and cave-in. And I don't just mean through social media posts, but also legislation against USFWS on the part of organisations like HSUS.

 

[PeteG]

PeteG your premis is how it SHOULD work but with our USFWS of today they follow emotions and heart strings not science. I hope I’m wrong but with their recent track record it is doubtful.

I understand what you’re saying, and there are a lot of inexplicable rules being made. However we can back up science with data.
it also means that push comes to shove and a court hearing comes into play, evidence of success will trump emotional irrationality

 

[Hunt anything]

I know what y’all are saying but many of the people in today’s USFWS are not hunters, I hate they have gone in this direction and I’m someone whose bread was buttered by the service so to speak for about 10 years. When taking wildlife classes in college in each class 80+% of the students did not hunt but “loved” animals, some of these people are the employees of USFWS. All but 1 of my friends in the service retired as soon as they could mainly due to the anti hunting sentiment.

 

[sgt_zim]

i disagree on this.
social media will only take it so far.

surveys and studies are going to have to be done to prove that hunting is not detrimental to the current status of hippo.

such studies will have to focus on quotas, populations, stability of residents per area, human wildlife conflict and human encroachment eroding natural habitat.

we as hunters, outfitters, concession owners and property owners will have to defend our position and clearly prove scientifically that there is a case in favour of maintaining the current status and that these studies prove the hunting areas/ranches/farms are positive contributors to the overall situation.

social media gets these anti groups to be heard, but scientific studies in favour of hunting will ensure that the decision goes the right way.

all of those studies already exist, and they're unequivocal. anyone with enough curiosity and intellectual integrity can find them easily. most non-hunters have a zillion other things going on in their lives, and social media is a big part of it.

 

[PeteG]

all of those studies already exist, and they're unequivocal. anyone with enough curiosity and intellectual integrity can find them easily. most non-hunters have a zillion other things going on in their lives, and social media is a big part of it.

I agree concerning the social media aspect, but I’m not so sure regarding the studies.

It is going to require being broken down into case by case, area by area studies.
I don’t think the blanket data that currently exists cover the details that are needed to clarify the validity of continued hunting.

I will only reference what I know (Zambia) and I can’t speak for what operators are already doing regarding hippo, but concerning lion, leopard and ele there is good reference data being compiled by some areas and private Unfenced reserves. This is going to be very useful and has been critical in defending lion, leopard and ele hunting op until now. I haven’t seen or heard of anyone documenting population dynamics on hippo and/or the effects or lack of effects on hunting them.
If there are studies, I would be keen to read them.

for example it’s required to compile and report all sightings, of lion and leopard. Tracks, sign, kills. GPS and comments. Try ID features to establish numbers and families etc etc.

That’s where the level of detail that may be needed for hippo to ensure their status isn’t upgraded.

I maybe wrong but I feel this is the direction it’s going to go

 

[Tundra Tiger]

If you want for there to be real change - and this won't be a fast process; more like getting a big tanker at sea to alter course - you need different ideologies at the highest levels. We need a change in administrations to take hold, and for the people who have the power to have belief systems that more closely align with those that many on here have - a true conservation outlook. Otherwise we're just going to keep pissing into the wind. That's my 2 cents, which is probably sitting in a bank that's about to go under.

 

[Hunt anything]

Well said Tundra Tiger, I hope you and your daughter have a good hunt at G4A and tell Wic that David and Charlotte from Alabama said hello. When do y’all leave?

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Beginning of June... Haven't decided on the exact day: we may fly into Anchorage a day or two early just to be safe. I can pass along your "hello".

 

[sgt_zim]

I agree concerning the social media aspect, but I’m not so sure regarding the studies.

It is going to require being broken down into case by case, area by area studies.
I don’t think the blanket data that currently exists cover the details that are needed to clarify the validity of continued hunting.

I will only reference what I know (Zambia) and I can’t speak for what operators are already doing regarding hippo, but concerning lion, leopard and ele there is good reference data being compiled by some areas and private Unfenced reserves. This is going to be very useful and has been critical in defending lion, leopard and ele hunting op until now. I haven’t seen or heard of anyone documenting population dynamics on hippo and/or the effects or lack of effects on hunting them.
If there are studies, I would be keen to read them.

for example it’s required to compile and report all sightings, of lion and leopard. Tracks, sign, kills. GPS and comments. Try ID features to establish numbers and families etc etc.

That’s where the level of detail that may be needed for hippo to ensure their status isn’t upgraded.

I maybe wrong but I feel this is the direction it’s going to go

The evidence abounds in RSA and Namibia.

If the animals and their habitat provide a greater economic value than farming and livestock (and we know they do), regulated hunting does what we claim it does. Regulated hunting isn't the threat there, we all know that. It's the human encroachment of a continental population that has grown from~250 million to ~1.3 billion in the last 60 or 65 years.

@Sue Tidwell - would appreciate your weigh-in on this.

 

[Safari Dave]

It sure would be nice if the USFWS would hire Wildlife Biologists instead of social justice warriors like they did 30 years ago!

 

[Tundra Tiger]

This. Sadly we (Oops! Did I say 'we'? I have no actual part) are hiring social justice warriors... with biology degrees.

 

[Andrew62]

What always seems odd to me in these matters is why the U.S. can impose these types of things on species that live on another continent. I mean I don’t necessarily disagree that some species in the U.S. such as things like wolverines or lynx in the lower 48 should be protected (not used as a weapon to stop other things). I don’t really see why it’s our business to list a species like hippo that doesn’t live within our borders. Let the local governments decide if they need to be endangered. That assumes they can do something like that in the various African countries which I know very little about as I’m very much still learning about Africa.

anyone know any good books on African conservation?

It would take me about 2.3 seconds to tell wildlife officials in Africa to F*** Off if they tried telling me what I could or could not shoot here in America.

 

[Safari Dave]

I'm sure things have changed since I was in college, but the SEC schools with wildlife management programs like Georgia and Auburn used to turn out some solid graduates.

 

[Spearhead]

Hippos kill lots of people. Hunting dollars help increase and protect habitat and fund anti-poaching units.

 

[PeteG]

A few years ago, one of the deeper pools in the luangwa river showing the concentration of hippo and crocodile

granted there are also long stretches of shallow water with no hippo, but this was not an uncommon sight.
zoom in to see all the crocs, most just have their heads up at water line.

 

[DLSJR]

Glad I’ve got a hippo included on my Selous hunt in 5 months.

 

[PerH]

So with the Dangerous Six gone, what do they go for next Kudu,Eland, or other cute animal?

Bet the Russians and Chinese wont bother with it to begin with, most likely some lobbied USFWS to let others keep it for them self.

 

[Hunt anything]

I'm sure things have changed since I was in college, but the SEC schools with wildlife management programs like Georgia and Auburn used to turn out some solid graduates.

I was at Auburn, took some wildlife classes in the early 80’s and things were great, even hunted with some of my professors. After pursuing a baseball career I came back to finish in the mid 90’s and things had changed quite a bit.

 

[Hunt anything]

There is some hope, my farm manager has a niece that is in wildlife management at Auburn and absolutely loves hunting. She is trying to get an internship in Africa in 2024, this fall is going to work at a lodge in South Dakota. The next time I see her I need to ask how many of her classmates hunt .

 

[PhotoCollector73]

Bet the Russians and Chinese wont bother with it to begin with,

They never will. I guess you could look at that as being both good and bad. Good because there's a huge market in the East which could supplement any potential lack of (certain) Western nationalities coming to Africa to hunt, and bad because those same Westerners would unfortunately be missing out.

I just wish that all people from across the globe could enjoy what Africa has to offer instead of these insidious laws backed by NGOs getting in the way.