Understanding The Term "High Fenced Hunting"

[WAB]

I did clarify that statement and I did not specify countries. To the point I know for an absolute fact that private land owners in Namibia and RSA have bought and stocked elephants and rhinos. Certain governments have been involved in projects from time to time but it is almost always the result of the land owner or wildlife benefit projects funded through donations. In NA however on native species it is almost always the state DNR or USFW that is responsible for releases such as sheep or pronghorn etc... private entities such a The National Wild Turkey federation often release turkeys and such.
SO in the end I do not understand where you are saying I'm making comments that simply arent true. Im certainly not taking any offense to your comment, hell if I'm wrong I'm wrong but I think the reality of it is I may have not articulated the intent of my comments well or i very well could have over generalized.

Or I may have misunderstood, always a distinct possibility!

 

[Red Leg]

I did clarify that statement and I did not specify countries. To the point I know for an absolute fact that private land owners in Namibia and RSA have bought and stocked elephants and rhinos. Certain governments have been involved in projects from time to time but it is almost always the result of the land owner or wildlife benefit projects funded through donations. In NA however on native species it is almost always the state DNR or USFW that is responsible for releases such as sheep or pronghorn etc... private entities such a The National Wild Turkey federation often release turkeys and such.
SO in the end I do not understand where you are saying I'm making comments that simply arent true. Im certainly not taking any offense to your comment, hell if I'm wrong I'm wrong but I think the reality of it is I may have not articulated the intent of my comments well or i very well could have over generalized.

I think there is a difference, and it is not a particularly fine one. But it is not necessarily a difference between a good thing and a bad thing.

One effort is about stocking to create self-sustaining herds. That obviously benefits hunters, but is also a relatively easy sell to the non-hunting public. For instance, the elk restocking effort in Kentucky and North Carolina has garnered broad citizen support in and out of the hunting fraternity. They are majestic animals to both photograph and hunt. Moving lions from Zim to the Zambezi Delta is another.

The other is stocking a limited number of animals to be shot by paying customers each year. Yes, there will be some holdover every year, but typically the advert reads that something like "three trophy class whatsits available - will be spoken far quickly!" These also tend to be relatively small properties. These operations benefit hunters who want a specific trophy (typically size with respect to whitetail) or meat animal without the random luck of free range hunting. As Erik rightly pointed out, it also represents an affordable opportunity for a species not native to this continent. However, this model can be a harder sell to non-hunters, and as evidenced by this thread, can be an issue among hunters ourselves.

In defense of the smaller North American hunting operations, they do represent a really good option for introducing young people to the hunting experience. They will see lots of game if nothing else (similar to the African game farm experience). I will admit that I am personally more bemused than impressed when I walk into a trophy room and see one of the 180-200 class frankendeer that are often found on such properties, but I get it. And the fact that there is a healthy hunting consumer base for that product is one that absolutely should be serviced.

I would also note Africa is big place. To my mind, the idea of shooting a zebra at Erik's place is not so very much different, depending upon the farm's specific location, than shooting a roan, sable, nyala, or lechwe on a South African game farm - no matter how large it is. I was recently reading a report where our member was so excited to actually hunt an Aoudad in Africa. True - and nearly 5000 miles from the species' home range.

We should all probably check our navels for lint.

 

[gizmo]

, I sincerely hope, business-wise, you do well. I truly do. For me the difference would and will always be I want to hunt AFRICA. Is RSA the Africa of Hemingway and Roosevelt? Heavens no. But it is the same continent, and I had to travel the same distances and I got to watch the sun rise and set over the same basic place on earth. That, for me, was worth a LOT. I grew up wanting to hunt AFRICA... not African animals someplace else.

I get what @375Fox is saying, and respect his opinion, and wish fervently I could hunt really unencumbered wild areas... but I am at peace with properties of 20K to 60K or more of space. It is enough, for me, to stalk through heavy brush for a kudu bull (X2!!) on tens of thousands of acres and knowing any fences are long way off.

At the end of the day, we have to decide what's right for each of us. For some, maybe African species in Texas is it. Me? I want to stand on African soil. I do agree with what others like @Tanks have said about really small put and take operations.

Hey buddy I agree 100% and you are making some of the exact points I was trying to. Now on the 8 k thing I added taxidermy to that as well for the comparison. If you take the taxidermy out that knocks $1100 of of it. The point is he made the statement that, "Heck, for the price of a single Zebra on your TX farm one can go to RSA for a week, shoot multiple species including the Zebra and have the full African experience." That is absolutely not true in any way shape or form, no matter how you play the numbers you cannot have the African experience in Africa for a week with multiple animals cheaper than you can shoot a zebra with me. My reply was in direct response to his comment and he is wrong, it cant be done under any normal circumstances.
Now I'm going to go on a bit of a rant and it's not directed at you but the issue of whether someone would rather do it that way is an entirely different thing and has nothing to do with the comment he made. I personally would not hunt zebra here under normal circumstances because I work hard and save to be able to do it in Africa. No doubt I love the African experience but, not everyone does. The African species on my ranch that are hunted are generally hunted by people who want to hunt a certain animal but have no desire to actually go to Africa to do it. There are a hellava lot of people like that too. It took me forever to grasp that concept when I was younger as my desire was always to be able to go to Africa. As an adult, I still prefer hunting those animals that you can hunt in Africa in Africa. Now many cant be hunted in Africa either, also take the scimitar oryx. There have been some introduced into RSA but they are not native nor are they importable to the US from there and everyone of them are on a game farm. If someone wants to hunt one from the US and enjoy the mount in their home the only option is Texas or somewhere they have been introduced which is basically Texas and thats it. New Mexico introduced Gemsbok but scimitar are pretty much a Texas thing. It is estimated that there are around 20k scimitar in Texas and by far Texas has the largest amount of them on earth. They are considered extinct in the wild, "The scimitar oryx or scimitar-horned oryx (Oryx dammah) is a species of Oryx; once widespread across North Africa; which has been assessed by the IUCN Red List as Extinct in the wild since 2000.", Oct 11, 2019, iucn.org. If it wasnt for the Texas High Fence industry they wasn't be gone, period and that is a fact. How long would the handful of zoo stock exist if it weren't for Texas game ranches. Not very long and they would be gone completely. So I guess let an animal go extinct because some people think they shouldn't be subjected to the "horrors" of high fenced hunting? Give me a break, I can name a ton of other game animals that are in the same boat as Scimitar. I'm sick of people saying places like Texas Game Farms and RSA/Namibia game farms have no place in conservation, BS!
Additionally, I personally know land owners that commonly stock their "free range" jillion acre ranches in Southern Africa. So the statement that It doesn't happen in free range places is false, I've seen it personally. It may not be the government but the land owners in a lot of places sure as hell do and relatively frequently. Government concessions are different I get that. On that note if there is a gov concession next to a private land and neither of them are high fenced and the land owner brings in animals for release which in turn stocks the private ranch and supplements the gov't land how the hell is that any different, or even visa versa. This is fairly common but you want to know what the difference is? You as a client don't know about it and the outfitter doesn't tell you. What is the difference between a sable on a game farm being hunted and a free range 400k hectacre property cutting loose 100 sable that were bought at auction? This notion that those original animals are allowed to frolic and dance on rainbows with tutus is BS. There are animals bought in that initial load that will be hunted to supplement or pay for the cost of the original stocking from day 1. I can name several ranches that have done that exact thing that I know of. I'm not naming them because I will not get those people who operate there into a shit slinging match on someone's post on the internet. Its common and it happens all the damn time both here and in Africa. Like it or love it but that is reality. I'm in the industry and work directly with animals here and a crap load of outfitters over there. Now before someone puffs up and try's to say that gov concessions are stocked regularly, yada yada yada, that is not what I am saying but as a whole I know of several "free range" places in RSA, Namibia, and Zambia but are private property and stock animals as needed. So then with that logic the areas of countries with government concession/ state wildlife area type areas would then be the only true "free range areas to hunt" and anything outside of that would be unethical. Additionally, only those areas that are so vast and so far away from anything else that no animal that was bred to be stocked for hunting purposes could count.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

No worries... Nothing personal taken. You serve a specific market, and probably that market is much larger than someone like me might guess. Someone like me will probably never be a client but that doesn't mean I don't wish you success.

I actually did strike up a conversation along these lines with my PH, who is also the owner of his operation (with his brother and father). I know from talking with him their herds have some level of being self-sustaining. He said so and I saw evidence of it. I suspect there is some level of adding to the populations for whatever reason, though I did not prove that deeply - maybe I didn't want to know? I was happy enough to know that young are born and grow, and all of the species I saw acted in a manner I consider consistent with wild animals. I did wonder a time or two about the absence of apex predators and how that figures into it. But I digress...

 

[375Fox]

Hey buddy I agree 100% and you are making some of the exact points I was trying to. Now on the 8 k thing I added taxidermy to that as well for the comparison. If you take the taxidermy out that knocks $1100 of of it. The point is he made the statement that, "Heck, for the price of a single Zebra on your TX farm one can go to RSA for a week, shoot multiple species including the Zebra and have the full African experience." That is absolutely not true in any way shape or form, no matter how you play the numbers you cannot have the African experience in Africa for a week with multiple animals cheaper than you can shoot a zebra with me. My reply was in direct response to his comment and he is wrong, it cant be done under any normal circumstances.
Now I'm going to go on a bit of a rant and it's not directed at you but the issue of whether someone would rather do it that way is an entirely different thing and has nothing to do with the comment he made. I personally would not hunt zebra here under normal circumstances because I work hard and save to be able to do it in Africa. No doubt I love the African experience but, not everyone does. The African species on my ranch that are hunted are generally hunted by people who want to hunt a certain animal but have no desire to actually go to Africa to do it. There are a hellava lot of people like that too. It took me forever to grasp that concept when I was younger as my desire was always to be able to go to Africa. As an adult, I still prefer hunting those animals that you can hunt in Africa in Africa. Now many cant be hunted in Africa either, also take the scimitar oryx. There have been some introduced into RSA but they are not native nor are they importable to the US from there and everyone of them are on a game farm. If someone wants to hunt one from the US and enjoy the mount in their home the only option is Texas or somewhere they have been introduced which is basically Texas and thats it. New Mexico introduced Gemsbok but scimitar are pretty much a Texas thing. It is estimated that there are around 20k scimitar in Texas and by far Texas has the largest amount of them on earth. They are considered extinct in the wild, "The scimitar oryx or scimitar-horned oryx (Oryx dammah) is a species of Oryx; once widespread across North Africa; which has been assessed by the IUCN Red List as Extinct in the wild since 2000.", Oct 11, 2019, iucn.org. If it wasnt for the Texas High Fence industry they wasn't be gone, period and that is a fact. How long would the handful of zoo stock exist if it weren't for Texas game ranches. Not very long and they would be gone completely. So I guess let an animal go extinct because some people think they shouldn't be subjected to the "horrors" of high fenced hunting? Give me a break, I can name a ton of other game animals that are in the same boat as Scimitar. I'm sick of people saying places like Texas Game Farms and RSA/Namibia game farms have no place in conservation, BS!
Additionally, I personally know land owners that commonly stock their "free range" jillion acre ranches in Southern Africa. So the statement that It doesn't happen in free range places is false, I've seen it personally. It may not be the government but the land owners in a lot of places sure as hell do and relatively frequently. Government concessions are different I get that. On that note if there is a gov concession next to a private land and neither of them are high fenced and the land owner brings in animals for release which in turn stocks the private ranch and supplements the gov't land how the hell is that any different, or even visa versa. This is fairly common but you want to know what the difference is? You as a client don't know about it and the outfitter doesn't tell you. What is the difference between a sable on a game farm being hunted and a free range 400k hectacre property cutting loose 100 sable that were bought at auction? This notion that those original animals are allowed to frolic and dance on rainbows with tutus is BS. There are animals bought in that initial load that will be hunted to supplement or pay for the cost of the original stocking from day 1. I can name several ranches that have done that exact thing that I know of. I'm not naming them because I will not get those people who operate there into a shit slinging match on someone's post on the internet. Its common and it happens all the damn time both here and in Africa. Like it or love it but that is reality. I'm in the industry and work directly with animals here and a crap load of outfitters over there. Now before someone puffs up and try's to say that gov concessions are stocked regularly, yada yada yada, that is not what I am saying but as a whole I know of several "free range" places in RSA, Namibia, and Zambia but are private property and stock animals as needed. So then with that logic the areas of countries with government concession/ state wildlife area type areas would then be the only true "free range areas to hunt" and anything outside of that would be unethical. Additionally, only those areas that are so vast and so far away from anything else that no animal that was bred to be stocked for hunting purposes could count.

You put “free range” in quotes for a reason. A lot of areas are marketed as free range but not truly free range, which was actually part of the original intent of this thread. It’s a marketing strategy in the cases you describe.

 

[John Wasmuth]

Hey buddy I agree 100% and you are making some of the exact points I was trying to. Now on the 8 k thing I added taxidermy to that as well for the comparison. If you take the taxidermy out that knocks $1100 of of it. The point is he made the statement that, "Heck, for the price of a single Zebra on your TX farm one can go to RSA for a week, shoot multiple species including the Zebra and have the full African experience." That is absolutely not true in any way shape or form, no matter how you play the numbers you cannot have the African experience in Africa for a week with multiple animals cheaper than you can shoot a zebra with me. My reply was in direct response to his comment and he is wrong, it cant be done under any normal circumstances.
Now I'm going to go on a bit of a rant and it's not directed at you but the issue of whether someone would rather do it that way is an entirely different thing and has nothing to do with the comment he made. I personally would not hunt zebra here under normal circumstances because I work hard and save to be able to do it in Africa. No doubt I love the African experience but, not everyone does. The African species on my ranch that are hunted are generally hunted by people who want to hunt a certain animal but have no desire to actually go to Africa to do it. There are a hellava lot of people like that too. It took me forever to grasp that concept when I was younger as my desire was always to be able to go to Africa. As an adult, I still prefer hunting those animals that you can hunt in Africa in Africa. Now many cant be hunted in Africa either, also take the scimitar oryx. There have been some introduced into RSA but they are not native nor are they importable to the US from there and everyone of them are on a game farm. If someone wants to hunt one from the US and enjoy the mount in their home the only option is Texas or somewhere they have been introduced which is basically Texas and thats it. New Mexico introduced Gemsbok but scimitar are pretty much a Texas thing. It is estimated that there are around 20k scimitar in Texas and by far Texas has the largest amount of them on earth. They are considered extinct in the wild, "The scimitar oryx or scimitar-horned oryx (Oryx dammah) is a species of Oryx; once widespread across North Africa; which has been assessed by the IUCN Red List as Extinct in the wild since 2000.", Oct 11, 2019, iucn.org. If it wasnt for the Texas High Fence industry they wasn't be gone, period and that is a fact. How long would the handful of zoo stock exist if it weren't for Texas game ranches. Not very long and they would be gone completely. So I guess let an animal go extinct because some people think they shouldn't be subjected to the "horrors" of high fenced hunting? Give me a break, I can name a ton of other game animals that are in the same boat as Scimitar. I'm sick of people saying places like Texas Game Farms and RSA/Namibia game farms have no place in conservation, BS!
Additionally, I personally know land owners that commonly stock their "free range" jillion acre ranches in Southern Africa. So the statement that It doesn't happen in free range places is false, I've seen it personally. It may not be the government but the land owners in a lot of places sure as hell do and relatively frequently. Government concessions are different I get that. On that note if there is a gov concession next to a private land and neither of them are high fenced and the land owner brings in animals for release which in turn stocks the private ranch and supplements the gov't land how the hell is that any different, or even visa versa. This is fairly common but you want to know what the difference is? You as a client don't know about it and the outfitter doesn't tell you. What is the difference between a sable on a game farm being hunted and a free range 400k hectacre property cutting loose 100 sable that were bought at auction? This notion that those original animals are allowed to frolic and dance on rainbows with tutus is BS. There are animals bought in that initial load that will be hunted to supplement or pay for the cost of the original stocking from day 1. I can name several ranches that have done that exact thing that I know of. I'm not naming them because I will not get those people who operate there into a shit slinging match on someone's post on the internet. Its common and it happens all the damn time both here and in Africa. Like it or love it but that is reality. I'm in the industry and work directly with animals here and a crap load of outfitters over there. Now before someone puffs up and try's to say that gov concessions are stocked regularly, yada yada yada, that is not what I am saying but as a whole I know of several "free range" places in RSA, Namibia, and Zambia but are private property and stock animals as needed. So then with that logic the areas of countries with government concession/ state wildlife area type areas would then be the only true "free range areas to hunt" and anything outside of that would be unethical. Additionally, only those areas that are so vast and so far away from anything else that no animal that was bred to be stocked for hunting purposes could count.

Addax, scimitar horned oryx, Dama gazelle, only place that anyone wants to hunt one can get one is Texas. I’m not involved in the argument because I don’t argue with anonymous individuals. But I’ve seen all of this before hunters, or so called hunters, pitting hunters against hunters because “it’s not hunting because I don’t hunt like that and if you don’t hint like I do than you are not a Hunter...”. Cannibals and useful idiots. The destruction of hunting will come from within. Say what you will but “ethics “ are usually defined by the individual. The elites attitude of “only my way of hunting is right and ethical and yours isn’t” is apparent all over this thread. Shooting a free range Cape buffalo in the ass as it’s running 200 yards away from the Hunter seems to be acceptable but hunting on a game ranch isn’t? Odd.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

 

[375Fox]

The elites attitude of “only my way of hunting is right and ethical and yours isn’t” is apparent all over this thread. Shooting a free range Cape buffalo in the ass as it’s running 200 yards away from the Hunter seems to be acceptable but hunting on a game ranch isn’t? Odd.

You really show a lot of ignorance with this statement about shooting a buffalo at 200 yards. Hopefully you’ll get a chance to hunt in a wild area one day and know what you are talking about.

 

[John Wasmuth]

You assume an awful lot.

 

[John Wasmuth]

Adding to the list of animals that can no longer be hunted in their native habitat but can be hunted in the U.S. on game ranches;
Black Buck Antelope
Axis Deer (Chital)
Pete David’s Deer
Nilgai Antelope

Game ranches serve a purpose. Not everyone’s cup of tea but then again not everything is for everyone. Most of the game ranches I’m familiar with through guiding and working, have breeding programs so put and take isn’t much of a thing for the most part. Proper management, just as native game is managed, is aiming towards sustainable populations. It’s all in perspective.

 

[Tanks]

...Shooting a free range Cape buffalo in the ass as it’s running 200 yards away from the Hunter seems to be acceptable but hunting on a game ranch isn’t? Odd.

Have you ever hunted a buffalo?

 

[Doug3006]

I have hunted Axis deer and Scimitar Oryx in Texas on large ranches (15K acres or more) and really enjoyed it. These were self sustaining populations and you can’t hunt them in their native home range. The wire was there, but it didn’t hinder the animals movement or hinder their ability to escape. Boy were they good at escaping. Was it the same as hunting free range animals in their native habitat? No. I think theres a place for both.

 

[Rickmt]

I have been to SA two times. The first time I was convinced to go and experienced a mix of good hunting, small properties, ear tag on my sable, and a great PH Jan Hendrik Liebenbeg. I learned a lot.

My next trip was with Spear Safaris and was much better in every way . Ernest is excellent .

My trip for 2022 will be my first for Buffalo on 45,000 acres and the area contains 1000 Buffalo.this trip will be with Gary Kelly safaris in Kwazulu Natal ,SA. Wilderness no ,but close enough . No more shitty plane rides after Joburg. Half the price of Tanzania.
Warm hunting for an old hunter who still puts an elk in the freezer most years.

Enjoy your hunting. Don’t be to worried about somebody else’s version of ethical.

When my son joined me to hunt with Ernest, after the first day he said : dad this is fun ,it is like hunting at the zoo. He was referring to the variety , not the fence.

We hunters should support one another in our hunting endeavors , and we should support sustainability in our game animals and all wildlife. Check out the license plate on my buddy’s truck

 

[gizmo]

Addax, scimitar horned oryx, Dama gazelle, only place that anyone wants to hunt one can get one is Texas. I’m not involved in the argument because I don’t argue with anonymous individuals. But I’ve seen all of this before hunters, or so called hunters, pitting hunters against hunters because “it’s not hunting because I don’t hunt like that and if you don’t hint like I do than you are not a Hunter...”. Cannibals and useful idiots. The destruction of hunting will come from within. Say what you will but “ethics “ are usually defined by the individual. The elites attitude of “only my way of hunting is right and ethical and yours isn’t” is apparent all over this thread. Shooting a free range Cape buffalo in the ass as it’s running 200 yards away from the Hunter seems to be acceptable but hunting on a game ranch isn’t? Odd.

Amen

 

[gizmo]

No worries... Nothing personal taken. You serve a specific market, and probably that market is much larger than someone like me might guess. Someone like me will probably never be a client but that doesn't mean I don't wish you success.

I actually did strike up a conversation along these lines with my PH, who is also the owner of his operation (with his brother and father). I know from talking with him their herds have some level of being self-sustaining. He said so and I saw evidence of it. I suspect there is some level of adding to the populations for whatever reason, though I did not prove that deeply - maybe I didn't want to know? I was happy enough to know that young are born and grow, and all of the species I saw acted in a manner I consider consistent with wild animals. I did wonder a time or two about the absence of apex predators and how that figures into it. But I digress...

I appreciate the well wishes and who knows maybe we’ll share a camp fire together somewhere one day.
I can tell you my favorite thing is the spring on the ranch when most of my species I have calf. Scimitar and Aoudad have the cutest fawns I think I’ve ever seen.
We had a huge deal a few years ago. several years ago I decided to re-introduced bison on my ranch. They had been absent since the end of the Indian Wars in Texas. My ranch is located literally in the epicenter of where all of the Quanah Parker, Col Goodnight, McKenzie saga happened. Hell even the Buffalo Soldier Unit visited my area and may have walked right through the middle of my property, who knows. Anyway a year and a half after I released them the first bison calf in something like 160 years was born on the ranch. There have been many born since but the first one was a huge triumph and definite bucket list item for me. I’m happy to say that I have a very healthy herd of bison that are roaming the canyons and Mesquite flats again.

 

[Tanks]

.... I’m happy to say that I have a very healthy herd of bison that are roaming the canyons and Mesquite flats again.

That I wouldn't mind hunting on your ranch once my move to Spicewood, TX is completed. Not too much of a logistical issue to transport the meat then.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Yeah... Bison could get me to Texas. It's a bucket list item for me. I keep putting in for the draw bison hunt up here but no love yet.

 

[gizmo]

You put “free range” in quotes for a reason. A lot of areas are marketed as free range but not truly free range, which was actually part of the original intent of this thread. It’s a marketing strategy in the cases you describe.

You are right. It is a marketing ploy. Furthermore there are very very few truly wild places to hunt left anywhere. Just about every square inch of ground that Is huntable has been influenced, changed, or modified in some way by man. With that comes changes in behavior of animals and every single improvement made, within the realm of what we are discussing here, has been done 100% for the benefit of making animals more concentrated or easier to locate to hunt. I don’t care if your in BFE Tanzania or hunting your back yard. Yes there is a matter of extent but nowhere has escaped mans hand and nowhere has not been manipulated to the benefit of the hunter and demise of the animal. That Africa or anywhere else hasn’t existed in 180 years or better.
The way I see it, if someone wants to judge me or impress me then I would have to see them dawn a cave man outfit and successfully kill buffalo and elephant with a sharpened stick. In that case I’d tell them that they have a right to judge me and I would be indeed impressed. Outside of that, it’s a bunch of “I’m superior to you” chest thumping.

 

[gizmo]

That I wouldn't mind hunting on your ranch once my move to Spicewood, TX is completed. Not too much of a logistical issue to transport the meat then.

It would be wonderful to have the opportunity to hunt with you. I absolutely enjoy hunting with AH’ers as this forum has produced some of the best people that I could ever wish for as friends and clients. This AH family is a very very good group of people and always a huge pleasure to get to know and hang out with.

 

[375Fox]

Furthermore there are very very few truly wild places to hunt left anywhere. Just about every square inch of ground that Is huntable has been influenced, changed, or modified in some way by man. With that comes changes in behavior of animals and every single improvement made, within the realm of what we are discussing here, has been done 100% for the benefit of making animals more concentrated or easier to locate to hunt. I don’t care if your in BFE Tanzania or hunting your back yard. Yes there is a matter of extent but nowhere has escaped mans hand and nowhere has not been manipulated to the benefit of the hunter and demise of the animal. That Africa or anywhere else hasn’t existed in 180 years or better.
The way I see it, if someone wants to judge me or impress me then I would have to see them dawn a cave man outfit and successfully kill buffalo and elephant with a sharpened stick. In that case I’d tell them that they have a right to judge me and I would be indeed impressed. Outside of that, it’s a bunch of “I’m superior to you” chest thumping.

Have you ever hunted a wild area or only private land in Namibia or South Africa? I don’t understand why you continue writing about something you have no knowledge about? These wild areas definitely do still exist and aren’t very very few in number as you describe. You keep trying to compare wild areas to a fenced area because fenced hunting is your business. There is a difference. This would be a better thread if you only wrote what you knew about fenced areas instead of what you don’t about wild areas. My comments on this thread started and continue that I’m opposed to non-sustainable practices that can occur behind a high fence.