Understanding The Phenomenon Of Jacket-Core Separation

[Rule 303]

I have not tried the SST line--mostly had problems with lighter weight boat tail interlocks at their "light magnum" velocities. Even then, the problems I had were on African game, not white tail deer. I know you have killed a lot more and a lot more variety than I have, so I will look into the SST thing.
Were the SST you used flat based, or boat tail?
Also, I have found that just about anything will kill the average feral hog. Whole bunch have been shot with 223 in the States, tho that would seem a bit light to me.

A whole bunch of pigs have been killed in Aust with the 223 but nobody talks about how many wounded ones get away. I have shot pigs with the 223 because that was the rifle I had in my hands but make sure of the shot before pulling the trigger. That is heart from side on. I prefer some thing bigger for pigs. The 6.8 SPC works well on them.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I have not tried the SST line--mostly had problems with lighter weight boat tail interlocks at their "light magnum" velocities. Even then, the problems I had were on African game, not white tail deer. I know you have killed a lot more and a lot more variety than I have, so I will look into the SST thing.
Were the SST you used flat based, or boat tail?
Also, I have found that just about anything will kill the average feral hog. Whole bunch have been shot with 223 in the States, tho that would seem a bit light to me.

@steve white
The 117gn 25 Cal's SST are flat base

The 308 is a boat tail but holds together well even in a180# hog shit they the shoulders . Bullet found in the gristle pad in the off side shoulder. Shot at around eighty yards
Bob

 

[grand veneur]

Three caliber .338 250gr Sierra Game King bullets from Elk's. In the first one on the right, the lead core has completely come loose from the jacket.

 

[Rule 303]

Three caliber .338 250gr Sierra Game King bullets from Elk's. In the first one on the right, the lead core has completely come loose from the jacket.

View attachment 600185

I have had that result from Speer, Sierra and Hornady non bonded bullets. They did not fail, in my view, as the animals were quickly killed by the bullet. I did not find any like that from the original Nosler Solid Base that I used in the 270.

 

[MS 9x56]

@steve white
The 117gn 25 Cal's SST are flat base
View attachment 600151

The 308 is a boat tail but holds together well even in a180# hog shit they the shoulders . Bullet found in the gristle pad in the off side shoulder. Shot at around eighty yards
Bob

And stands on its own hind legs

 

[MS 9x56]

Three caliber .338 250gr Sierra Game King bullets from Elk's. In the first one on the right, the lead core has completely come loose from the jacket.

View attachment 600185

Did the elk all die?

 

[IvW]

@steve white
The 117gn 25 Cal's SST are flat base
View attachment 600151

The 308 is a boat tail but holds together well even in a180# hog shit they the shoulders . Bullet found in the gristle pad in the off side shoulder. Shot at around eighty yards
Bob

You gonna have to explain in english not aus.....
"hog shit they the shoulders".......did the hog shit itself when you shot it through the shoulders?...

 

[Nevada Mike]

Everyone should strive to get their game animal down quickly.

I have had one obvious bullet failure.. a 120 grain Sierra cup & core fired from my 6.5 X 55 at a very large mule deer at 250 yards plus. The bullet came to pieces and the jacket was shredded. I made an immediate follow up shot and secured the buck, but thereafter switched to Noser Partition bullets for my hunting and never had a failure, even on elk with my 7mmRM. I also had Bill Stiegers at Bitterroot make a batch of BBCs in 7mm which were not the most accurate bullets but they held together very well.

In the last few years I have been experimenting with 25 caliber Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets for longer range shooting at the local Coues deer and with 140 grain 7mm SSTs for my 280 AI for the same little deer. They seem OK so far, but I would not use them on animals over 120 lbs. Nathan Foster likes fragmenting bullets at extended long range but I seldom shoot much past 400 yards so I cannot comment on his ideas. I still like Nosler Patitions for most of my hunting..

For truly large game (Buffalo, etland, etc.) I use Swift A Frames and they are, IMO, the best available for this job given lower velocities and 400+ grain bullets. Great penetration and perfect expanion. I hear that Woodleighs are excellent if not pushed beyond their manufacturers velocity limits, but I have not used them on game yet.

 

[grand veneur]

Did the elk all die?

Sure, otherwise I would not be able to show you the bullets. These are all shots at longer range, 300 yards to 400 yards and even more. I only had problems once by hunting Elk with a 180gr Scirocco bullet from the cartridge 300 RUM at 400 Yrds. I have already given details about this poor action in another topic. That's why I continue to trust the 250gr Game King bullets and the cartridge 340 Weatherby Magnum for hunting heavy game.

The alternative was the 19g TUG bullet of the cartridge 9,3x64 Brenneke. Extremely efficient on Elk and Moose despite the fact that the bullet has largely disintegrated in the body of the game. Only the external ballistics have somewhat limited the use of this cartridge for longer shooting distances.

Use enough gun and then you want not have to worry as much about your bullets.

 

[grand veneur]

I have also shot heavier game species with the same 250gr GK bullet from Sierra, meant above all two Muskox, one with the cartridge 338 Lapua Magnum and the other with the cartridge 340 Weatherby Magnum. Everything went well in both cases.

Once again, place more value on the cartridge and its caliber. With the concept of the majority as far as bullets are concerned, we would not have been able to shot any game 50 years ago with what was available at this time.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

You gonna have to explain in english not aus.....
"hog shit they the shoulders".......did the hog shit itself when you shot it through the shoulders?...

@IvW
Bloody big fingers and not proof reading before hitting then post reply button. Should have read shit. Plus auto correct has a lot to answer for.
Bob

 

[crossone]

@IvW
Bloody big fingers and not proof reading before hitting then post reply button. Should have read shit. Plus auto correct has a lot to answer for.
Bob

Autocorrect has a lot to answer for!

Hah! That's hilarious!

U RULE!!

 

[MS 9x56]

Sure, otherwise I would not be able to show you the bullets. These are all shots at longer range, 300 yards to 400 yards and even more. I only had problems once by hunting Elk with a 180gr Scirocco bullet from the cartridge 300 RUM at 400 Yrds. I have already given details about this poor action in another topic. That's why I continue to trust the 250gr Game King bullets and the cartridge 340 Weatherby Magnum for hunting heavy game.

The alternative was the 19g TUG bullet of the cartridge 9,3x64 Brenneke. Extremely efficient on Elk and Moose despite the fact that the bullet has largely disintegrated in the body of the game. Only the external ballistics have somewhat limited the use of this cartridge for longer shooting distances.

Use enough gun and then you want not have to worry as much about your bullets.

That is a good point and why most of my favorite cartridges use 358 bullets

 

[Rule 303]

Re Woodleigh bullets. I have shot game and hit them at well above the recommended velocity and the bullets held together, just lost a bit more weight. Yes, you can use them well above recommended impact velocities. The recommended impact velocity range is for optimum performance.

The one animal I did loses to bullet failure was a 40kg pig. 270 cal Nosler 130grn ballistic tipped solid base. The pig was facing us in the spotlight. Hit it in the middle of the forehead just above the eyes, dropped to the shot. By the time we got out of the Mini Moke and walked across to it, it had gone. Found it the following day due to the crows and hawks. It had a massive surface head wound. The round did not penetrate at all.

Used the rest of those POS projectiles on paper and never bothered with them again.

 

[375Fox]

Re Woodleigh bullets. I have shot game and hit them at well above the recommended velocity and the bullets held together, just lost a bit more weight. Yes, you can use them well above recommended impact velocities. The recommended impact velocity range is for optimum performance.

The one animal I did loses to bullet failure was a 40kg pig. 270 cal Nosler 130grn ballistic tipped solid base. The pig was facing us in the spotlight. Hit it in the middle of the forehead just above the eyes, dropped to the shot. By the time we got out of the Mini Moke and walked across to it, it had gone. Found it the following day due to the crows and hawks. It had a massive surface head wound. The round did not penetrate at all.

Used the rest of those POS projectiles on paper and never bothered with them again.

I’m not going to argue Woodleigh bullets aren’t proven or a decent bullet, but I lost a lot of confidence in their reputation after pulling these fragments from a roan at around 75 yards with two 300 gr 375 woodleigh protected points. I believe the recommended maximum impact velocity is 2700. These would have been well under. I had a combination of trophy bonded bear claws and woodleigh on that hunt. My PH asked me not to use woodleigh until the buffalo was down because he felt woodleigh are too soft at 375 velocities. I expected weight loss but I wasn’t expecting the jacket to fragment.

 

[Rule 303]

I’m not going to argue Woodleigh bullets aren’t proven or a decent bullet, but I lost a lot of confidence in their reputation after pulling these fragments from a roan at around 75 yards with two 300 gr 375 woodleigh protected points. I believe the recommended maximum impact velocity is 2700. These would have been well under. I had a combination of trophy bonded bear claws and woodleigh on that hunt. My PH asked me not to use woodleigh until the buffalo was down because he felt woodleigh are too soft at 375 velocities. I expected weight loss but I wasn’t expecting the jacket to fragment.
View attachment 600334

First up, I hope you sent that photo and a not to Geoff at Woodleigh. he does analyze things to help make improvements.

2) I don't know when you did your hunt but for a few years now Woodleigh have made a heavier constructed 300 and 350 grain 375 to avoid this situation. They are referred to as Heavy Duty and are black in colour.

 

[375Fox]

First up, I hope you sent that photo and a not to Geoff at Woodleigh. he does analyze things to help make improvements.

2) I don't know when you did your hunt but for a few years now Woodleigh have made a heavier constructed 300 and 350 grain 375 to avoid this situation. They are referred to as Heavy Duty and are black in colour.

I’ve never considered sending in bullet performance photos to the manufacturer. It’s good that he cares. The hunt was 2021. I bought loaded ammo in woodleigh protected points because it was available, not really for any other reason. It will probably be my last trial with woodleigh softs though unless a similar ammo shortage occurs again. I just think there are better options available for what I want. The woodleighs did very well on PG just appear very soft. Technically the protected points have a higher impact velocity rating than the heavy duty but I’ve never tried the heavy duty.

 

[Rule 303]

I have not heard of any Woodleigh coming apart like that. I guess a dud can always get through.

Just out of curiosity what was the brand of ammo? I would still send the recovered bullet to them as the Ammo manufacturer may have put some other bullet in the mix. Not say it is a deliberate move as they would not want to get a bad name, just a mistake.

Just trying to cover all bases as looking at the photo it does not look like it was a bonded bullet.

 

[375Fox]

I have not heard of any Woodleigh coming apart like that. I guess a dud can always get through.

Just out of curiosity what was the brand of ammo? I would still send the recovered bullet to them as the Ammo manufacturer may have put some other bullet in the mix. Not say it is a deliberate move as they would not want to get a bad name, just a mistake.

Just trying to cover all bases as looking at the photo it does not look like it was a bonded bullet.

I’ll send you a PM. Here were the bullets.

 

[Rule 303]

I forget if it is in this thread or another. I have had Woodleigh bullets hit at more than 200fps above the recommended impact velocity and they have held together even when hitting bone. Ones I did recover, 225 grain weighted 180 to 190 grains.