Two rifles for Africa

[One Day...]

Hello Nevada Mike;

I agree with BeeMaa, JHT, dchamp, etc. the .375 H&H and .404 are virtual clones, especially if the .375 H&H shoots 350 gr DG bullets. Either will do great on buffalo. Unless you specifically want two DG rifles - i.e. a spare rifle in case of problem with one - I would not take .404 and .375.

The one rifle battery screams simplicity, but it also says no backup if something breaks, and things get limited if you take only one scope for it. This practically limit you to one load (unless you like re-sighting on the fly), and in this case, it limits you to 300 gr. Not ideal for PG if distances go longish in the plains.

On the PG side, sable, zebra, kudu will fall to the 7 x 57 with heavy bullets, but the trajectory is not great. If you hunt in dense bush and get close it is all good. If you hunt in open plains, before you know it you are looking at 300+ yards shoots. Not ideal for the 7 x 57 with heavy slugs...

The .30-06 with 165 gr or 7 mm Rem Mag with 160 gr will do it all, and will stretch the range easier than the 7 x 57.

Among your rifles, I would suggest you take two (it does not cost you a penny or a worry more to have two in the case), and I would suggest you take a medium-heavy for buff: either .404 or .375; and a light for PG: either .30-06 or 7 Mag.

Personally, I was on the .375/300 gr bandwagon for some years, then I jumped on the .416/400 gr bandwagon, and I am back on the .375 bandwagon, but with 350 gr slugs for buffalo. On large PG I am on the .30 bandwagon, but .30 with longer legs, i.e. 300 Wby/165 gr TTSX, and for small PG and MG (mountain game) I use a .257 Wby/100 gr TTSX. All 3 barrels in the Blaser/Pelican case give me total flexibility, and when DG will be heavy or in dense bush I replace the .375 with a .470.

 

[GuttormG]

Why not do everything with the 404?

 

[Zambezi]

It depends on your appetite for risk. If you feel you need the backup for the .404J in case something goes wrong then take the .375. It will do both the DG and the PG role.

If you are ok with using a camp gun should anything go wrong with the .404J and want a PG rifle that will do it all on any PG then take the 30.06.

If you are a lefty like me then I would take the .404J and the .375 as there are very few left-handed weapons in camp to hire. Then you have the .375 backup, just need to take the correct ammo for DG and PG.

 

[IvW]

I have posted before about heading to Tanzania in little over a year. I am going to spend 21 days hunting buff, sable, zebra, kudu. Perhaps other animals as well as the license provides a lot of species including, lion, leopard, etc.

For the buffs an bringing my .404 jeff. But I am undecided on which 'second' rifle to bring. My current choices are .30-'06, 7mm RM, 7 X 57, or a recently acquired .375 H&H.

I shoot the 7mm RM well, but I am leaning towards the .375 which could do the PG well and also double on DG if needed. For those who have been on similar safaris in the past, what would you recommend?

As you state that you have all ready decided to take the 404 Jeff for the buffalos and are un decided on the second rifle.

First off the 404 Jeff is a no brainer and irrespective of what has been said above is the right choice as it is probably the best caliber ever designed for buffalo in a bolt action using premium grade soft point bullets.....

Before jumping on the 7x57mm or 30-06 band wagon regarding the other plains game that are available. lets carefully consider the list of species below available on a 21 day license.....

• The following game to be hunted strictly on a 21 day license: Elephant; Lion; Leopard: Oryx; Greater Kudu; Eland; Gerenuk; Sable; Ostrich; Klipspringer; Hippopotamus; Puku; Roan and Porcupine.

Would your 7x57mm or 30-06 be capable of:
Greater kudu in Tanzania is a very sought after trophy and rarely are trophy size bulls encountered, so want to have a very capable cartridge when one does.
Oryx are very tough.
Eland, Patterson's eland are very large tough shy and elusive again if you get the opportunity you need a caliber that can deal with the animal and the situation.....neither the 7x57mm or the 30-06 qualify....
Sable are large bodied and not to hard to put down.
Roan can be larger in body size than sable and are tough....
Hippo, often hunted on land.....again 7x57mm and 30-06 do not qualify....

So however great the 7x57mm and the 30-06 are they are not a good choice for the species available.

You can take 3 rifles and 1 shotgun to Tanzania....

If you only take two...

404 Jeff with premium softs and a couple of solids paired with the 375 H&H with 300gr premium softs and some solids makes the most sense for the specific animals available.

If you take three I would add the 7x57mm for the smaller stuff...

There is this thought that you will have the 7x57mm in your hands while hunting kudu or gerenuk and bump into a world record buffalo.....well the chances of that happening is about well zero.....

404 Jeff and 375 H&H for this hunt makes the most sense.....

 

[PerH]

.404 is quite versatile. The one i had previously with help of previous owner took

Both Seal species in Norway, Moose, Red deer, Ptarmigan, Roedeer,Capercaille, Fox etc. This was done with 310 Mimek hc lead for small game and the Ptarmigan, 350 Woodleigh or 300 PBP copper mono bullet for the rest.

 

[Nevada Mike]

Thanks, All! You have given me a lot to think about... fortunately, I have a year to decide. When my PH is back from the bush, I'll ask him what he thinks.

Mike

 

[rookhawk]

I have posted before about heading to Tanzania in little over a year. I am going to spend 21 days hunting buff, sable, zebra, kudu. Perhaps other animals as well as the license provides a lot of species including, lion, leopard, etc.

For the buffs an bringing my .404 jeff. But I am undecided on which 'second' rifle to bring. My current choices are .30-'06, 7mm RM, 7 X 57, or a recently acquired .375 H&H.

I shoot the 7mm RM well, but I am leaning towards the .375 which could do the PG well and also double on DG if needed. For those who have been on similar safaris in the past, what would you recommend?

You have and need a 404J for your awesome trip. The 404 serves all needs covered by the 375HH, so evaluate what else you need.

it appears you have no plan for the following:

-small animals without serious pelt damage

-distant plains game for which you lack reach

My conclusion is you’re missing a 7x57, 7x64, or 7mm rem. Both softs and solids.

 

[chashardy]

I agree with the other posters recommending the 404Jeff paired with the 7X57 or the 30-06.

 

[cal]

For my next hunt I’ll be taking my .404J and .300WM and feel very happy with that 2 gun battery. In saying that my brother will be with me with his .375HH and I am right handed so no issues with camp rifles either. It is highly unlikely anything will happen to your rifle making it unusable. But it can happen! on my last hunt I managed to irreparably damage the scope on my WM and had to use the camp gun… in your case id probably take the .404 and .375. Enjoy the planning and the hunt!

 

[JHT]

Thanks, All! You have given me a lot to think about... fortunately, I have a year to decide. When my PH is back from the bush, I'll ask him what he thinks.

Mike

I’ll answer for him - your PH is going to say bring only the .375 and do all with it.

 

[Nevada Mike]

I’ll answer for him - your PH is going to say bring only the .375 and do all with it.

He may do that, but I'll let him respond. He LOVED the idea of bringing my .404J... "A great buffalo cartridge." according to him. His response on the second rifle was to bring the 7mm RM. But that was before I had the .375 H&H available.

An old friend, who was a PH in Kenya and later in Botswana said that the single most useful rifle safari caliber was the 7mm RM, but for PG, not DG, I'm hoping that the .375 will do for PG and sub for the .404 if needed.

 

[Nevada Mike]

You have and need a 404J for your awesome trip. The 404 serves all needs covered by the 375HH, so evaluate what else you need.

it appears you have no plan for the following:

-small animals without serious pelt damage

-distant plains game for which you lack reach

My conclusion is you’re missing a 7x57, 7x64, or 7mm rem. Both softs and solids.

I do not intend to shoot tiny game or porcupines. I want Buffalo, Sable, Zebra, Eland, etc, I originally felt the .30-'06 was the right second rifle, but since ranges will almost always be with 200 yards (+ or -) that the .375 might be right for PG and serve for buff in extremis. Thought about taking three guns, the third being a shotgun, but I have plenty of bird hunting available here in Arizona.

I have never hunted Africa, so I am depending on my PH and the clad here on AH for guidance. All good and thanks to everyone for their suggestions.

 

[JHT]

I do not disagree with his assessment. The .404J is cooler than the other side of the pillow and the 7 mag is a certified darn killer. However, the 7 mag is nuevo and the Springfield, like the .404J has history. Romanticism they call it.
I will simply say that, in my opinion (free advice is worth what you pay for it), taking two guns is a bad idea. I have shot plains game animals over 200 yards with a .416 Rem Mag (I’m not scared of nuevo), with little damage to the capes. The bullet is through them before fully expanding. The only problem one might have is the scope. At 200+ yards, the animals might appear small on 6 power.
I suppose what I am trying to say is if you want to take two guns then take them. Any combination of the .404J and any of the others will work; however, if you decide to only take one gun then I suspect your PH’s advice will be to bring the .375 with at least an 8 power scope. Of course, I could be wrong. Just a hunch.

 

[rookhawk]

I do not intend to shoot tiny game or porcupines. I want Buffalo, Sable, Zebra, Eland, etc, I originally felt the .30-'06 was the right second rifle, but since ranges will almost always be with 200 yards (+ or -) that the .375 might be right for PG and serve for buff in extremis. Thought about taking three guns, the third being a shotgun, but I have plenty of bird hunting available here in Arizona.

I have never hunted Africa, so I am depending on my PH and the clad here on AH for guidance. All good and thanks to everyone for their suggestions.

Not my place to say you’re crazy, @Nevada Mike , but you’re leaning that way.

Tanzania is one of the most expensive places in the world to have a safari. I’m envious and jealous of you. If you’re paying that amount of coin and going the full measure, there are a ton of must-have animals you’ll get no place else. Gerenuk, Puku, Thompsons gazalle, some duikers I can’t recall. Etc.

Yes, Buffalo, Sable, Zebra, and Eland are plenty cool. But if you fail to get one of them, there are a half dozen economical places you can go on another hunt to get whatever you missed of that list. But the one’s I rattled off? Pretty rarified air. You definitely want a rifle that won’t devastate them if you are going to bring home trophies.

 

[JimP]

On my first trip to Africa I was thinking about taking 2 rifles on just a plains game hunt with one of them being for the smaller game. But then I started to think about what if I had the smaller caliber and a larger game animal showed up that I wanted to shoot but was under gunned with the smaller caliber?

I ended up just taking one rifle that was capable for all of them.

One nice thing with the 375 is that you can carry some solids if you decide to shoot any of the smaller game.

 

[JHT]

And as far as a “back up rifle in case something goes wrong” why not take two of the same caliber where you don’t have to buy twice the ammunition?

 

[Tra3]

And as far as a “back up rifle in case something goes wrong” why not take two of the same caliber where you don’t have to buy twice the ammunition?

I don’t think you can take two fo the same caliber. I seem to recall a limitation on this.

 

[JHT]

I don’t think you can take two fo the same caliber. I seem to recall a limitation on this.

I think you are correct. It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. Lesson learned.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

Not my place to say you’re crazy, @Nevada Mike , but you’re leaning that way.

Tanzania is one of the most expensive places in the world to have a safari. I’m envious and jealous of you. If you’re paying that amount of coin and going the full measure, there are a ton of must-have animals you’ll get no place else. Gerenuk, Puku, Thompsons gazalle, some duikers I can’t recall. Etc.

Yes, Buffalo, Sable, Zebra, and Eland are plenty cool. But if you fail to get one of them, there are a half dozen economical places you can go on another hunt to get whatever you missed of that list. But the one’s I rattled off? Pretty rarified air. You definitely want a rifle that won’t devastate them if you are going to bring home trophies.

Gotta agree here. Way too many species of game only available in Tanzania to not hunt for them at the cost you're paying. I'd be primarily chasing those animals and hunting the others you named on a different trip or as targets of opportunity if they present.

 

[Velo Dog]

I suggest bringing only the .404, with both softs and solids.