TSX - You Can't Have It Both Ways!

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Good post! With today’s Barnes TSX and others I just don’t understand some PH’s still recommending loading solids after softs for buffalo

I agree with your sentiment on loading solids after softs. I can't see the need for that and feel that those days are long gone.
Are you saying that hunters can substitute solids with TSX or are you saying hunters should load a TSX after a conventional soft?

 

[Bandera]

My previous trip using a 308 Winchester, we recovered one Barnes TTSX from an Impala . It was frontal shot the bullet lodged in the tailbone.
The Zebra, Blue Wildebeest and Warthog where all broadside pass through.

This last trip I used a 375 Ruger with the 300 grain TSX.

 

[skydiver386]

Barnes TSX - You Can't Have It Both Ways!

As a lover of all things safari I encounter discussions and debates of many kinds but rifle calibers and bullets seem to be the most discussed and filled with the strongest opinions. As a self described student of everything safari I will challenge the convention wisdom where appropriate. I have no interest in dismissing history but on the contrary embrace the history of safari. There are so many nostalgic aspects of safari dating back well over a century. Being nostalgic for me does not mean I turn a blind eye to technology and live solely in a 1900's mindset. By way of example I'd mention the debate of .375 H&H versus .375 Ruger. The latter is superior by every metric yet many want to hold onto tradition by choosing the former. This is great and there is not a nickle's worth of difference on game between the two calibers. Let's just not say the the .375 H&H is superior because that would simply be untrue. My point is that we should not let tradition blind us to the reality in front of us.

I like to chime in on the debates of what bullet to use for follow up on a buffalo hunt. It seems to be one of the most opined aspects of the hunt and one that seems to be stuck in the past. I do not proclaim to be an expert on anything but have hunted quite a bit and studied and discussed this subject for many years now. The conventional wisdom is that you must shoot "softs followed by solids" on most any buffalo hunt. I've heard it over and over that an expanding bullet will not make it through the rumen from a Texas heart shot and reach the vitals. This may be true with traditional "softs" but technology has changed over the years. Enter the revolutionary Barnes TSX. The original Barnes X bullet came on the market in 1989. There was nothing like it at the time and it began gaining a following from sportsmen. 1989 was a long time ago yet there are many who go about their hunts as if the X bullet was never invented. Due to the effectiveness of this bullet on game it now has many competitors in the marketplace. I personally have seen the effectiveness of the TSX on buffalo, hippo, Lord Derby Eland as well as other game hunting in many corners of the world. I have equally seen the lack of effectiveness of solids when used in the aforementioned scenarios. The most dramatic example of the lack of effectiveness of solids on buffalo for me actually came from videos although I've had many experiences myself. I've seen so many where two guys with 500's shooting solids at close range on a buffalo just keep shooting over and over with little effect. Sometimes a dozen shots put into the bull before it finally goes down. What other hunting scenario would be comparable to this? I don't care how big the animal is you shouldn't need to shoot it a dozen times! Something is wrong.

When thinking about the results from a solid bullet versus a hollow point I revert back to my childhood where no jack rabbit was safe! I literally took thousands of jack rabbits over the years. Back in the 1970's and 1980's here in west Texas the jack rabbit, which is actually a hare, was like a plague. Farmers and ranchers loved for kids to come take a few out and reduce the grazing pressure they caused. They used to say 20 rabbits equaled a cow as far as grazing was concerned. Who knows if that is true but it was used as the excuse to go buy bricks of .22LR and fire away! My how times have changed. Now no one trusts kids with guns and the rabbit hemorrhagic disease (RHD) has hammered the jack rabbit to minuscule numbers. As you can imagine I got to take shots with every type of .22LR on the market. Budget was a concern with the volume of shooting that took place so the CCI Stinger, the fastest and most effective cartridge in .22LR, was a rare pleasure to shoot. The cheapest were and still are a simple all lead solid bullet. I hate these lead bullets to this day. They jam in my 10/22's and cause more fouling and of course do less damage than a hollow point. My favorite overall was the Remington Golden Bullet hollow point. After taking countless rabbits with the solids it was an amazing experience to have a decent hollow point. The solids proved over and over to consistently allow the animal to run away and possibly require another shot whereas a simple body shot with the hollow point anchored them where they were.

Even today there are very few African PH's who will allow or recommend a client hunter use an expanding bullet as the follow up shot on Buffalo. There are a few who have "seen the light" and understand the penetration of the TSX. Now I'll turn to a discussion I heard recently that prompted this article. Joseph Von Benedikt was interviewing Mark Haldane of Zambezi Delta Safaris at a recent hunting show. Mark is famous for bringing back the wildlife in parts of Mozambique in dramatic fashion. Stories and videos have been produced in great volumes showcasing his success and the thriving wildlife in his hunting areas. He likely hunts more buffalo than anyone in Africa and is widely considered an expert on all subject of wildlife and hunting in Africa. Being a gun writer and highly experienced in bullets and calibers Joseph took the conversation to bullets. Of course he would and we all eagerly await the discussion! Due to the fact that buffalo in the swamps of Mozambique live in larger herds there is more of a danger of a shot passing through and hitting another buffalo than anywhere in Africa. With this in mind Mark does not recommend the TSX for hunting in this area. He states that he has seen too many pass throughs that wound up causing a big problem. I'll just touch briefly that when it comes to bullet failures or performance issues I find it often times to be reloads traveling at an improper velocity that caused the failure. Then the bullet gets unfairly blamed but lets leave that one alone for now. I have not personally had a broad side pass through myself with the TSX on buffalo but I will take it from the expert who has seen it. This means that possibly the top expert on buffalo in Africa (he and his team shoot over 200 Buffalo per year) states that the TSX has excellent penetration!

Ok, but you can't have it both ways! You can't on one hand state that the TSX does not penetrate well enough to use for follow up's and then in the same breath say that they pass through too often. Which is it?



View attachment 708267S

Phillip, I agree with 100% of your initial post, but I'm unclear on what you described as improper reloading with the Barnes bullets. Can I assume it's reloading the lighter bullets at to high velocity, and possibly shedding petals, or loading heavy bullets to insufficient velocity, and not achieving proper expansion?

Each bullet maker is forced to design a bullet to work under a wide variety of circumstances including velocity, twist, specific animal, etc., but the end user fully expects the bullet to perform no matter what. I don't envy any bullet maker trying to produce a quality product for the market under current conditions.

 

[Arctic97]

I recently posted this on another thread, but it fits here....note what he says about the failed one and penetration.....

I like to leave ammo for the PH's when I go. I left a batch of 270 gr, in 375 H&H cal for a PH and he sends me pics of bagged animals which I enjoy receiving. He uses TSX and likes and recommends them. He had this to say about the following pictures he sent me......

The Barnes worked this week! 3 buffalo safari done and dusted....some from sable, some from kudu, but most from buff.....

One Barnes failed, but penetrated well....I've seen them do it twice before....They all fail, Barnes just fail less...

 

[Rare Breed]

I agree with your sentiment on loading solids after softs. I can't see the need for that and feel that those days are long gone.
Are you saying that hunters can substitute solids with TSX or are you saying hunters should load a TSX after a conventional

I’m saying that besides a leopard needing more of a SP with fast expansion, if I am hunting Buffalo I would stick with TSX in my rifle not a TSX then a solid

 

[JMM]

Please expound on this! 3500fps, wow. What is your rifle twist, or is the mono metal 110 grain long enough that it is not a factor? TSX opens another possibility--lighter bullets that still get the job done, and can be pushed to what normally would be magnum velocities...hmmm

I shoot a custom rifle with a 24" Pacnor barrel with a 1/10 twist. Overall cartridge length is 3.118 inches for my rifle. This load shoots 1/2 MOA groups at 100 yards.

 

[375Fox]

I recently posted this on another thread, but it fits here....note what he says about the failed one and penetration.....

I like to leave ammo for the PH's when I go. I left a batch of 270 gr, in 375 H&H cal for a PH and he sends me pics of bagged animals which I enjoy receiving. He uses TSX and likes and recommends them. He had this to say about the following pictures he sent me......

The Barnes worked this week! 3 buffalo safari done and dusted....some from sable, some from kudu, but most from buff.....

View attachment 708780

One Barnes failed, but penetrated well....I've seen them do it twice before....They all fail, Barnes just fail less...

View attachment 708781

I would definitely prefer that type of bullet failure over breaking on the shoulder and failing to penetrate like a non-bonded lead core bullet. Interestingly I’ve had one failure with Barnes. It was an impala at maybe 200 yards with a 250 gr TTSX. It was full broadside in open floodplain. The shot placement was perfect on shoulder, but it appears bullet deflected possibly and only made a flesh wound. I would really liked to have recovered bullet and seen shot on camera to know what happened. It ran off and needed a follow up after some tracking.

 

[Green Chile]

I would definitely prefer that type of bullet failure over breaking on the shoulder and failing to penetrate like a non-bonded lead core bullet.

Agreed 100%. Every mechanical device can fail at some point but Barnes failures are very different than softs breaking up in other types of failures. Recovered bullets from dead animals are educational but are they really failures or did they contribute something to the recovery of that animal? You can't recover a bullet unless the animal dies so I always find irony in that.

 

[Dirtdart]

I remember well being told by Barnes that their new X-Bullet will reliably expand at an impact velocity of 1600FPS or more. That was the early 90's

The first two Barnes X bullets that I witnessed strike meat were 165's from a full throttle 30-06 load on a mule deer at 80 yards give or take. I am confident those two bullets were WELL above what the factory quoted as minimal velocity to expand. All ends well as the deer was recovered. If I had not seen the direction the deer was facing I would have had a hard time differentiating the exit from the entrance wound. Not the situation for a solid.

Shortly there after that mule deer incident I happened to stop by the shop of a friend / gunsmith. I was asked to take the bore scope and examine a barrel laying on the bench. The story was that there were less than 200 rounds of Barnes X through this barrel. There are so many variables such as barrel maker, cleaning practices, etc. that I just chalked it up to operator error. Not a far stretch with a 7.62 Warbird?

The blue X bullet? If you have had a negative experience with moly-coated bullets you may be a bit skeptical when you see that paint job.

My second trip to Africa my PH told me that he didn't want those bullets in his camp.

My early experiences with the Barnes X bullet were not so positive but fast forward to 2025 and we are talking about a completely different bullet as the evidence in this thread proves.

 

[Philip Glass]

Phillip, I agree with 100% of your initial post, but I'm unclear on what you described as improper reloading with the Barnes bullets. Can I assume it's reloading the lighter bullets at to high velocity, and possibly shedding petals, or loading heavy bullets to insufficient velocity, and not achieving proper expansion?

Each bullet maker is forced to design a bullet to work under a wide variety of circumstances including velocity, twist, specific animal, etc., but the end user fully expects the bullet to perform no matter what. I don't envy any bullet maker trying to produce a quality product for the market under current conditions.

I guess my point is that many reloaders look at accuracy and velocity primarily. What about shooting an animal and evaluating performance? So just because you have great accuracy and a velocity to brag about does not mean you have the ideal setup.
How many times have we heard “ I just worked up a new load and am heading to Africa”? If it’s tried and true fine but a new recipe and then the bullet is blamed.
I’ll get flack but I’ve simply never seen a TSX failure with factory or my custom loaded ammo. What else is to blame?

 

[Philip Glass]

Well written @Philip Glass

Im a barnes fan-boy through and through... I use TSX or TTSX in pretty much every caliber I reload for.. Ive tried other bullets to varying degrees of success.. but as a rule barnes are consistently accurate across all of my various platforms, in all calibers, etc.. and my experience with them has been that as long as they a little speed on them, that they are absolutely devastating on game..

A TSX might not be my first choice on slower moving cartridges like 30-30 Winchester or 45-70... but for the vast majority of mid to high speed cartridges they are always my first stop, go-to, projectile..

I recognize that there are other bullets that have similar reputations for straight line penetration, consistency in expansion, etc like the A-Frame, CSX, etc.. I dont begrudge anyone that likes another well established premium projectile better..

But.. for me.. Barnes are readily available at my local big box retailers.. they are reasonably affordable when compared to other premiums.. and again, are consistent across every caliber I load for.. I get somewhere between very good and excellent accuracy in every caliber.. and absolute devastating downrange results on game on everything Ive shot with them ranging from little 30lb pigs up to elk, zebra, wildebeest, etc.. (my buffalo was actually taken with an A-Frame since I was using a camp gun at the time.. had I brought either my 375 or 416 on that hunt, it would have been loaded with TSX)...

Another thing that is weird about the TSX is that it seems to outperform its BC. Thanks for sharing your experience on such a variety of game!

 

[Philip Glass]

This is interesting @Philip Glass. Real world bullet performance data is hard to come by. A man like Mr. Haldane sees more game taken in a season than I’ll shoot in my lifetime. So I respect what he says.

My own, much more limited experience with hunting bullets is a lot less definitive. I suppose I’ve shot most of my animals with 2 brands of bullets, Nosler Partitions and Barnes TSXs. I recon these 2 bullets represent the soft and hard ends of the premium bullet spectrum. I’ve never lost an animal with either bullet. Never had a bullet failure, whether it was a bullet that came apart prematurely or one that failed to expand.

So I’ve come to the (boring) conclusion that if you select the right type of bullet for the game at hand, and place the bullet reasonably well, you’ll kill your animal. I say boring, because this conclusion doesn’t play well during campfire bullet arguments!

I like boring! I can agree and add that Barnes, Nosler, and Swift bullets are all boring. No surprises.

 

[Philip Glass]

@Philip Glass, I'm by no means an expert on African hunting, with only four safaris under my belt, I'll consider myself a novice compared to some on here. On three of my four safaris, I used a 375 H&H with 300 grs Barnes TSX factory ammo, and all I can say is the more I shot the ammo, the more a believer I became.

On my second and fourth safari with Game-4-Africa I shot an array of animals to include the following (2022 Safari) Warthog, Black Wildebeest, Red Hartebeest, Cow Buffalo, Bushbuck, Kudu, and Nyala, (2025 Safari) Cape Buffalo, 2 Kudus, and a Waterbuck. I also made my longest shot this year on a Kudu at 312 yds, quartering away, shot went in the back stripes and exited on the chest. The only bullet recovered (see picture) was from the Buffalo. All were one shot kills with the exception of two animals that needed an extra insurance shot.

Third safari was with Hans De Klerk, for a Lioness. One shot one kill, with devastating internal effect.

Like I said earlier, the more I shoot this ammo, and more of a believer I become. All the PHs I hunted with gave me the thumbs up with asked if Barnes TSX ammo was good for the safaris.

View attachment 708273

This is the effect of the 300 grs TSX on the Lioness organs.

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Exit wound.

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Amazing. Thanks for sharing your success!

 

[Philip Glass]

@Philip Glass, I'm by no means an expert on African hunting, with only four safaris under my belt, I'll consider myself a novice compared to some on here. On three of my four safaris, I used a 375 H&H with 300 grs Barnes TSX factory ammo, and all I can say is the more I shot the ammo, the more a believer I became.

On my second and fourth safari with Game-4-Africa I shot an array of animals to include the following (2022 Safari) Warthog, Black Wildebeest, Red Hartebeest, Cow Buffalo, Bushbuck, Kudu, and Nyala, (2025 Safari) Cape Buffalo, 2 Kudus, and a Waterbuck. I also made my longest shot this year on a Kudu at 312 yds, quartering away, shot went in the back stripes and exited on the chest. The only bullet recovered (see picture) was from the Buffalo. All were one shot kills with the exception of two animals that needed an extra insurance shot.

Third safari was with Hans De Klerk, for a Lioness. One shot one kill, with devastating internal effect.

Like I said earlier, the more I shoot this ammo, and more of a believer I become. All the PHs I hunted with gave me the thumbs up with asked if Barnes TSX ammo was good for the safaris.

View attachment 708273

This is the effect of the 300 grs TSX on the Lioness organs.

View attachment 708274

Exit wound.

View attachment 708275

Amazing. Thanks for sharing your success!

 

[Philip Glass]

I think over penetration on a broadside shoulder shot is very different than penetration on a Texas heart shot running away. I don’t know if I’d trust a Barnes TSX to reliably make it there, but it definitely has best chance of the current premium softs available. I think you wrote something backwards though from my experience. Most PHs are recommending premium softs only. The number that recommended a soft followed by solids is less every year.

I had a buffalo I shot from the rear on follow-up that went all the way to the shoulder.
Interesting to know more PH’s are not recommending solids for follow up.

 

[Philip Glass]

I do have to point this out. My argument has been 375 H&H is superior to the 375 Ruger because of ammo availability. Barnes TSX is only available in semi-custom loads in 375 Ruger (and still only in Hornady brass when they decide to make it).

Good point on ammo availability although that was not part of my point on the difference in calibers. I have Safari Arms load my ammo on many of these calibers. .450/400 is quite limited as far as factory loads go!

 

[Philip Glass]

Philip, I agree 100% with Mark, and you know my personal stance on Barnes on Buffalo.

To answer your above questions for you, when we we speak of follow ups, we are saying that we are not trusting the Barnes TSX to have enough penetration from a Texas Heart Shot on an already wounded Buffalo. I'm not trusting a Barnes TSX to go through the rumen and reach the lungs. It might get there, I know a solid will get there. ( This is the reason why I carry two or so solids in my belt always), but I also don't trust a Barnes TSX/TTSX on a broadside shot in fear of overpenetration.

I’ve done it on the Texas Heartshot but I guess I’ll just have to keep shooting buffalo until I finally get one to pass through. .416, .470, and .450/400 and no exits. I promise to keep trying and report back!

 

[Doug3006]

I like boring! I can agree and add that Barnes, Nosler, and Swift bullets are all boring. No surprises.

I understand that people want to try new things. Without curiosity, we’d still be hunting with sharp sticks! However, I get enough of a rush hunting in Africa. I don’t need the extra thrill of discovering whether this new bullet, or that new bolt action design works as hoped. Give me boring guns, cartridges and calibers.

 

[UpNorthMI]

There are a lot of good comments here, I think we have an amazing choice of quality bullets today. I've shot a lot of Barnes TSX and TTSX in many different calibers, my main comment would be that all of the Barnes bullets have shot well with great accuracy and grouping.

My hunting experience on dangerous game with Barnes TSX is limited but includes all one shot kills on cape buffalo and a lot less one shot kills on Australian water buffalo in .375 300gr, most animals shot close in under 100 yards, bullet performed as expected, I shot one cape buffalo at 225 yards, the recovered round had much less expansion, I assume it was due to the velocity drop.

I've shot .30 cal 150 gr TSX in .308 and felt that the bullets were too hard for medium soft skinned game (maybe little expansion), I have since moved down to .30 cal 130gn TTSX in .308, I hope to have some real use feedback on this in the next few months. I can see where users are recommending to drop down to a slightly lighter bullet and pick up speed for mid size calibers for soft skin game.

I have to say I'm still a big fan of soft point bonded bullets such as Swift A frames, Hornady DGX bonded and Nosler Partition. I've recently moved to .416 Rem for buffalo and similar, I will be shooting Barnes TSX, Federal with Swift A Frames or Hornady DGX Bonded, all 400gn ammunition. I'm very impressed with the .416 compared to the .375 and believe that any of these quality bullets will work well.

I have to comment that Barnes and Hornady have done a great job with availability over the last 5 or 6 years. I'd like to be able to comment about all the other great bullet options but I deliberately limit my bullet selection to a few as there is just such a large selection available today. Once something works well for me I try to standardize to 1 or 2 bullet options for each hunting caliber.

 

[Philip Glass]

It looks like I'm in the minority when it comes to Barnes bullets. My history with Barnes Bullets dates back to my childhood and young teen years when they were made in Denver using copper tubing with a lead core. My family and myself used them for years even though they we not as accurate as the next generation premium bullet (Partitions and BitterRoot). Not long after Randy Brooks bought Barnes and
came out with the solid copper bullets that have matured to the TSX & TTSX along with several
"copycat variations".
My issues with current Barnes are:
1. Accuracy varies a lot much related to copper fouling and velocity fluctuations.
2. Performance is very inconsistent from expansion and peddle sheading to frequent shoot throughs.
3. Rapid copper fouling that leads to increased pressures and decreasing accuracy.
4. Lot to lot variations in bullet weight

I've purchased many rifles who I either feel or know were sold for reasons #1&3. Most have been customs with high quality barrels that have been so heavily copper fouled they were sold because of
accuracy issues. A Bore scope exam usually tells the story. Former owners will tell you they cleaned the
gun and even went to other brands of bullets and/or ammo with no resolution.
The vast majority of those rifles can be saved but it takes special techniques and care to do it, simple
cleaning even with Cu+ removing solvents isn't enough (and they are often very caustic).
I've personally in the last few years tested several copper bullets incl TSX, in calibers from 25 to 416,
accuracy and pressure issues start to develop as soon as 20 rounds to as much as 60 even from good quality hand lapped barrels, a few cut rifling barrels seam to do better but not always.
I respect those of you who choose to use solid copper bullets for whatever reason, sometimes it's
what you have been told, what a government bureaucrat has forced you to use, lack of availability of another option, or cost (and they are the cheapest "premium"). With proper techniques can they be used (YES) but I'm convinced the average rifle owner doesn't clean their rifle bores well anyway let alone what it takes to use most of the copper bullets available IMHO.

Ever used Wipe Out?