TSA Behavior, Destructiveness and Airline Difficulty

[Beretta391]

Just back from my third trip to SA (landed Friday). I'll be posting more over the next few weeks as time allows. Still not unpacked at this point and haven't cleaned either rifle I took.

To answer @Vanguard2279 original post, my route was ATL-DFW-DOH-JNB and back the same direction with AA on the ATL-DFW leg and Qatar on the others. Both part of Oneworld. When I arrived in JNB and started unpacking, I noticed that my ammo case had been broken beyond repair. It was locked using TSA locks in my checked baggage and had been declared when I checked in originally in ATL. The bag was checked through to JNB from ATL as the ladies at Travel Express told me it would be as as I confirmed with the rather snotty AA ticket counter agent in ATL. There was no TSA "card" in the ammo case as far as I remember. My locks were undamaged and in the case. Pics of case and locks:
View attachment 401213
View attachment 401214

I borrowed an ammo case from my PH, locked it with one of the locks above and it flew home in the same spot in my checked bag as the original ammo case. It was unmolested on the way home - checked all the way through from JNB to ATL.

There was absolutely no reason for the case to be broken in the way it was. It was purposely broken so as to be unusable and one of the latches on the case (there are three) was also missing. I was obviously displeased, to put it mildly. I've flown with this ammo case exactly as it was to Africa and back before (2019) and back and forth to Saskatchewan (also 2019) and it was fine.

On the way to JNB, my brand new Tuffpak gun case with the "barrel" lock was checked through to DFW where I had to claim it and re-check it to JNB. It was a painful, but successful process:

1. Find the correct baggage claim oversized area and wait for case;
2. Retrieve case and take bus to new terminal;
3. Wait in line at Qatar counter to be told none of the info they needed for the rifles had been forwarded (but they were aware in advance I was travelling with firearms and ammo);
4. Provide them with all my info (passport, 4457, and pre-approved SA import permit) which they took in the back to make copies (my copies weren't good enough for some reason, inc my passport copies that I had notarized);
5. Get the case checked back in through to JNB;
6. Take case to TSA where they unpacked the entire case, opened my soft cases, rubbed down everything with the swab and put it in the little machine that detects explosives;
7. Help TSA agent re-pack my case inside the TSA area and re-lock the case; and
8. Go back through security check-point to continue my journey.

I know you guys with internal USA flights have to do this every time but as an ATL-area resident, I've not had to do this before. Took over 90 minutes after I landed to get to my gate for the DOH segment. And I was in business class, so it would have taken longer if in economy.

Everything arrived in JNB in good shape in my rifle case. I was the only one travelling with firearms on the DOH to JNB leg, and if it weren't for the nice folks at Riflepermits.com (thanks Adel and Marius) I might still be waiting on the SAPS guys to find my rifle case and get me checked in.

On the way back, check the rifle case to DFW as expected where I have to collect both my checked bag and rifle case and go through the process of getting my rifles checked back into the US and sent to ATL. Collect my bags, head to CBP area for the process of checking the serials with my 4457. The case arrived in DFW in great shape. The CBP guys that checked my rifles back in with me were very professional and courteous. He's clearly done this 100x before and is using the oppo to take a new CBP agent through the process. CBP guy tells me the re-lock the case which I do in front of him.

Take both bags to AA recheck area, throw my checked bag on the belt, guy there says you need to take rifle case to that AA lady over there at the counter. Take rifle case over, tell her it's a rifle case, she asks if it's been previously declared, I say yes, she checks tag and tells me to put in on this oversize luggage belt. I do so, ask if that's all I need to do, she says yes and I'm off to security check-point for my last leg to ATL.

Arrive ATL, checked bag comes out fine. Rifle case takes a while longer to come out of oversized baggage claim. Immediately notice that this is clearly my case (my biz card with all my details inc mobile number is taped on the side of the case) but there's a pink TSA lock on the buckle that secures the case lid to the rest of the case. Weird. Pick up the case and immediately notice fairly significant damage to the case lid itself (again, this is a brand new Tuffpak). Think to myself, "I bet those TSA bastards broke my lock" and check - sure enough, the barrel lock has been broken. Since my wife is due to pick me up momentarily, I sulk off upstairs and ride home.

Pics of my (now no longer brand new) Tuffpak and the added TSA lock. Yes, that's an actual hole all the way through on the case lid:
View attachment 401220
View attachment 401221

It requires a hellova effort to screw up a brand new Tuffpak like that.

Get home, cut the added TSA lock off, check rifles (appear to be fine). There is a TSA card on the inside of the case stamped with travel date (May 07 2021) and "D30 Ramp OS". Thanks to those assgoblins for destroying the lid of my brand new case with my mobile number clearly visible on the side of the case. I'm now willing to bet it's the same DFW TSA bastards who destroyed my ammo case on the way to JNB. A pox on your house and all those you love, ya loser POS.

To top it all off, there's someone else's rain jacket crammed into my case with my rifles and my shooting sticks. So if you traveled through DFW last Friday and the TSA lost your rain jacket, send me a note with a description and I'll mail it to you.

So, so irritated right now.

That doesn’t look like the tsa did that to ur tuff pak. That looks like baggage handlers. Like it fell off the cart going 60 mph!! I would be talking to American Airlines about destroyed luggage. It may have busted open when it hit and tsa put it back together.

 

[JimP]

I would of defiantly filed a claim with the airline

 

[BnC 04]

And what's the repercussions for this incurred damage/cost to the airline? We as travelers/hunters are expected eat it?

 

[Mekaniks]

That doesn’t look like the tsa did that to ur tuff pak. That looks like baggage handlers. Like it fell off the cart going 60 mph!! I would be talking to American Airlines about destroyed luggage. It may have busted open when it hit and tsa put it back together.

I agree. I bet that the luggage handlers broke it, and TSA put it a lock on it to help secure it.

 

[Goose Cracker]

I agree. I bet that the luggage handlers broke it, and TSA put it a lock on it to help secure it.

You guys are so cute. Thinking TSA folks care about my rifle case and didn't maliciously break into it and then add someone else's jacket to my rifle case's contents accidentally. I know for a fact baggage handlers throw stuff around and don't give a rat's hiney about my stuff. But I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts this specific case was TSA malevolence. They are the single worst thing to happen to airline travel in the last 30 years IMHO. It was certainly the TSA that broke my ammo case headed to JNB.

 

[seth hollenbach]

Th black lock is my original lock tsa cut in Houston(United flight), the red one is the one they replaced it with I had to cut off when I arrived home.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Did you pack clothes in the Tuff Pak with the guns? IIRC, that's a no no and may be why the TSA person got a case of the ass. Another thing IIRC, no TSA locks on gun cases. From this chair, I think their mindset was, we're going to teach this guy a lesson he won't forget.

 

[Goose Cracker]

Th black lock is my original lock tsa cut in Houston(United flight), the red one is the one they replaced it with I had to cut off when I arrived home.

What the actual F? Why in hell are we using crappy TSA locks when the TSA just cuts em off or destroys our cases anyway? Those jokers make my blood boil.

 

[Goose Cracker]

Did you pack clothes in the Tuff Pak with the guns? IIRC, that's a no no and may be why the TSA person got a case of the ass. Another thing IIRC, no TSA locks on gun cases.

I didn't. Only two rifles in soft cases and my shooting sticks in a tripod case. With foam at the bottom and top of the case. Along with a manila folder with all of my paperwork. I loathe 'em, the worthless sacks of protoplasm that make up the TSA....

 

[Hogpatrol]

What the actual F? Why in hell are we using crappy TSA locks when the TSA just cuts em off or destroys our cases anyway? Those jokers make my blood boil.

Don't use TSA locks for anything firearm related, end of problems. Now I know we're going to hear from a dozen people that say they use them. All well and good until you run into someone the OP experienced.

 

[Goose Cracker]

Don't use TSA locks for anything firearm related, end of problems. Now I know we're going to hear from a dozen people that say they use them. All well and good until you run into someone the OP experienced.

Sadly wrong. I've had the bastards cut off padlocks as well. My first trip to SA I used a separate Pelican case for my ammo and checked it separately. They cut the padlocks off the case, put em in the case with the ammo, and put zipties in the holes in place of the padlocks. I've used these specific TSA locks on this specific ammo case 2X before without problems.

And note that my tuffpak doesn't have a TSA lock, it has (had) a factory installed barrel lock.

 

[jpr9954]

Just back from my third trip to SA (landed Friday). I'll be posting more over the next few weeks as time allows. Still not unpacked at this point and haven't cleaned either rifle I took.

To answer @Vanguard2279 original post, my route was ATL-DFW-DOH-JNB and back the same direction with AA on the ATL-DFW leg and Qatar on the others. Both part of Oneworld. When I arrived in JNB and started unpacking, I noticed that my ammo case had been broken beyond repair. It was locked using TSA locks in my checked baggage and had been declared when I checked in originally in ATL. The bag was checked through to JNB from ATL as the ladies at Travel Express told me it would be as as I confirmed with the rather snotty AA ticket counter agent in ATL. There was no TSA "card" in the ammo case as far as I remember. My locks were undamaged and in the case. Pics of case and locks:
View attachment 401213
View attachment 401214

I borrowed an ammo case from my PH, locked it with one of the locks above and it flew home in the same spot in my checked bag as the original ammo case. It was unmolested on the way home - checked all the way through from JNB to ATL.

There was absolutely no reason for the case to be broken in the way it was. It was purposely broken so as to be unusable and one of the latches on the case (there are three) was also missing. I was obviously displeased, to put it mildly. I've flown with this ammo case exactly as it was to Africa and back before (2019) and back and forth to Saskatchewan (also 2019) and it was fine.

On the way to JNB, my brand new Tuffpak gun case with the "barrel" lock was checked through to DFW where I had to claim it and re-check it to JNB. It was a painful, but successful process:

1. Find the correct baggage claim oversized area and wait for case;
2. Retrieve case and take bus to new terminal;
3. Wait in line at Qatar counter to be told none of the info they needed for the rifles had been forwarded (but they were aware in advance I was travelling with firearms and ammo);
4. Provide them with all my info (passport, 4457, and pre-approved SA import permit) which they took in the back to make copies (my copies weren't good enough for some reason, inc my passport copies that I had notarized);
5. Get the case checked back in through to JNB;
6. Take case to TSA where they unpacked the entire case, opened my soft cases, rubbed down everything with the swab and put it in the little machine that detects explosives;
7. Help TSA agent re-pack my case inside the TSA area and re-lock the case; and
8. Go back through security check-point to continue my journey.

I know you guys with internal USA flights have to do this every time but as an ATL-area resident, I've not had to do this before. Took over 90 minutes after I landed to get to my gate for the DOH segment. And I was in business class, so it would have taken longer if in economy.

Everything arrived in JNB in good shape in my rifle case. I was the only one travelling with firearms on the DOH to JNB leg, and if it weren't for the nice folks at Riflepermits.com (thanks Adel and Marius) I might still be waiting on the SAPS guys to find my rifle case and get me checked in.

On the way back, check the rifle case to DFW as expected where I have to collect both my checked bag and rifle case and go through the process of getting my rifles checked back into the US and sent to ATL. Collect my bags, head to CBP area for the process of checking the serials with my 4457. The case arrived in DFW in great shape. The CBP guys that checked my rifles back in with me were very professional and courteous. He's clearly done this 100x before and is using the oppo to take a new CBP agent through the process. CBP guy tells me the re-lock the case which I do in front of him.

Take both bags to AA recheck area, throw my checked bag on the belt, guy there says you need to take rifle case to that AA lady over there at the counter. Take rifle case over, tell her it's a rifle case, she asks if it's been previously declared, I say yes, she checks tag and tells me to put in on this oversize luggage belt. I do so, ask if that's all I need to do, she says yes and I'm off to security check-point for my last leg to ATL.

Arrive ATL, checked bag comes out fine. Rifle case takes a while longer to come out of oversized baggage claim. Immediately notice that this is clearly my case (my biz card with all my details inc mobile number is taped on the side of the case) but there's a pink TSA lock on the buckle that secures the case lid to the rest of the case. Weird. Pick up the case and immediately notice fairly significant damage to the case lid itself (again, this is a brand new Tuffpak). Think to myself, "I bet those TSA bastards broke my lock" and check - sure enough, the barrel lock has been broken. Since my wife is due to pick me up momentarily, I sulk off upstairs and ride home.

Pics of my (now no longer brand new) Tuffpak and the added TSA lock. Yes, that's an actual hole all the way through on the case lid:
View attachment 401220
View attachment 401221

It requires a hellova effort to screw up a brand new Tuffpak like that.

Get home, cut the added TSA lock off, check rifles (appear to be fine). There is a TSA card on the inside of the case stamped with travel date (May 07 2021) and "D30 Ramp OS". Thanks to those assgoblins for destroying the lid of my brand new case with my mobile number clearly visible on the side of the case. I'm now willing to bet it's the same DFW TSA bastards who destroyed my ammo case on the way to JNB. A pox on your house and all those you love, ya loser POS.

To top it all off, there's someone else's rain jacket crammed into my case with my rifles and my shooting sticks. So if you traveled through DFW last Friday and the TSA lost your rain jacket, send me a note with a description and I'll mail it to you.

So, so irritated right now.

Put a claim in for reimbursement for damages. All they can do is say no. Send a copy of the request to your Congressman as well.

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/passenger-support/claims

 

[JimP]

If you placed non TSA padlocks on regular checked luggage as you say here you were just asking for them to cut them off to inspect what you had in it.

Actual firearms cases are the only item that I know of that you don't use TSA locks on since they inspect it while you are there.

 

[Andrew Short]

With a trip coming up; what locks should be out on my rifle case “pelican”? What locks for ammo case? “Will be in my checked baggage.”

 

[YancyW]

I know it doesn't mean they actually know the rules, or follow, or even give a shit either way, but bullet point 4 here is pretty clear what you should, in theory, be able to use.

Transporting Firearms and Ammunition | Transportation Security Administration

www.tsa.gov

 

[Andrew Short]

Thanks!!!

I know it doesn't mean they actually know the rules, or follow, or even give a shit either way, but bullet point 4 here is pretty clear what you should, in theory, be able to use.

Transporting Firearms and Ammunition | Transportation Security Administration

www.tsa.gov

 

[Red Leg]

I suppose I just have been really lucky. But, I have travelled domestically and internationally with firearms pretty extensively since 9/11. I have never had a lock cut and never had an issue with TSA. Those flights have originated in Austin, Houston, Dallas, BWI, Vancouver, Manhattan - KS, Charleston, and a bunch of places that I can't immediately recall. I have transited Atlanta several times. I use real locks on my gun cases and TSA locks on ammunition. I have always been treated with courtesy by the TSA firearms inspectors. Can't say the same about every customs officer or airline desk clerk, but that is a different issue.

In all that time, one rifle spent the night at Dulles upon return when it couldn't be immediately found by baggage claim. It was delivered the next morning. And I had my primary checked bag lost in the bowls of J'burg for five days on the way into Mozambique. Obviously not a TSA issue.

 

[YancyW]

Thanks!!!

I use non-TSA locks on gun cases, if ammo is in a separate case, it gets TSA locks. If possible I put the ammo box in the same case as firearm, but that isn't doable in some places, like SA.

In the US, I almost always have firearm and ammo in the same case. I nearly always have loaded mags in the same case, in a couple hundred flights, never had an issue with it.

 

[JimP]

With a trip coming up; what locks should be out on my rifle case “pelican”? What locks for ammo case? “Will be in my checked baggage.”

Rifle case gets your own padlock, you only have a key or the combination.

Everything else gets TSA locks, I even placed TSA locks on my ammo box inside of my checked luggage but my own padlock on my rifle case. Remember this is only for the US every place else is different in ways.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Aside from the gun case, what the hell was so important that they had to break open the ammo box? If there's a procedure for filing a complaint with TSA or homeland security, I'd do it. That is just plain wanton destruction.