Trying to choose which caliber for a new double rifle

[KJE81]

Did a little research of my own after Nhoros posting, apperently .375 Flanged is not legal for buffalo and elephant in Namibia or Zimbabwe due to to low energy, does that mean it is not legal for buffalo or elephant anywere in Africa? In that case the decision is made easier...

 

[Jeffrey]

IMHO a K Gun in 450-400 is the ultimate client double rifle. Great combination of safety features, shootability, and modularity.

You could add a set of 9.3X74 and 20 gauge barrels later on.

I’m certainly not saying Nhoro is wrong, but I’m pretty sure a 375 Flanged would be accepted in Zim. While the 9.3X62 falls a little outside the legal allowable power range there it is still widely accepted for everything, seems 375 flanged would be as well. Check with a few operators and get their opinions.

 

[MMAL]

A lot of great advice here. Remember you can’t go wrong with your choice if you are in the .375 to 500/416 category for all you want to hunt. I have the K gun in 500/416 and love it. It is heavy but so is every gun that is meant for elephant. I put a red dot on it and use it for everything in Africa except leopard. It is good to 150 yards with the red dot. One thing I would suggest is to make sure they regulate the gun to the ammo you want to use. I believe they did use woodleigh bullets. Not sure what they are doing now with woodleigh out of commission. I sent mine back to regulate with swift a frames. Then worked up a load for the solid. The 450-400 is more common so if you do not reload you might consider it but the 500/416 and it replicating the 416 Rigby is, imo, closer to a classic. Good luck and have fun with the new toy.

 

[Mopani]

The minimum caliber in Zimbabwe is 9.3x62 resp. 9.3x74R. Don Heath had changed it from .375 to 9.3.

 

[KJE81]

The minimum caliber in Zimbabwe is 9.3x62 resp. 9.3x74R. Don Heath had changed it from .375 to 9.3.

And thats including elephant and buffalo?

 

[Mopani]

 

[Tom Leoni]

375 flanged is not legal for buffalo or elephant in zimbabwe- it falls short of the energy requirement. 450/400 is legal so maybe factor that into your choice.

This is surprising. It produces comfortably over the 4,000 ft/lbs (5,400 Joules) required according the online resources I've been able to find. Does that mean the belted version of the .375 H&H is also out for ele and buff in Zimbabwe? Is there a site with an actual list of approved calibers rather than just a minimum energy requirement? Thank you in advance--I haven't been able to find it.

 

[Scott CWO]

I am in the process of ordering myself a new double rifle, most likely it will be a Krieghoff Classic/Big five. But since we have quite strict gun legislation here in Sweden (maximum 4-6 guns) it would be nice if it could fill several roles, like beeing usable for mosse/elk hunting and bear aswell as boar hunting here in Sweden while still be feasible to use for both plains game and Buffalo, Elephant, Hippo and big cats in africa in the future. For smaller game at home I have other guns, and since that is my main hunting diet those other guns are taking up 5 of the 6 spaces in my gun cabinet in accordance with Swedish law in this matter.

And since I would prefer a rimmed caliber I am presently looking at two options, one beeing the .375 Flanged Magnum and the other being the .500/.416 Nitro Express, the question is if the .375 Flanged Magnum is enough for the above or if I should look at the bigger caliber instead? There would probably be much more of the other game then those in the Big Five.

One upside with the .375 Flanged is that it can be ordered in the regular Krieghoff Classic which means a slender, lighter gun than the Classic Big Five, making it more suitable for hunting that involves a lot of walking. On the other hand the big upside of the .500/.416 is of course that it gives more effect when it comes to the bigger animals.

With regards to gun makes, I think that I will go with the Krieghoff since I feel I get more bells and whistles for my money with this make ie engraving and wood quality then with Heym which was my other contender Also looked at SIACE and some second hand guns of spanish or italian make but in all honesty I am quite fond of buying a completly new gun to my own specifications and also some of these brands seem to have a so-so reputation.

So if anyone feels like they have some input in this matter it would be greatly appreciated

I’m certainly no expert when it comes to double rifles but I think you are asking too much from a single double rifle. The result could be a rifle that is mediocre for most situations. I am more of a specialist in my thinking and searches for solutions. A 375 Flanged is likely a bit underpowered for elephant and sometimes, buffalo. In addition, shooting a double rifle accurately past 100 yards can be very challenging, especially with iron sights and considering regulated loads meant for shorter range regulation.

If you really want a double rifle, I would suggest a larger heavier caliber double rifle for dangerous game under 100 yards and closer range plains game under 200 yards. Then, get a .375 H&H bolt action rifle for plains game at longer distances that could also be used for dangerous game if your double rifle is not available at that moment. Trying to do all things with one double rifle is a stretch. I have been on seven safaris to large open range areas and have two more confirmed. The habitat varies from the thick forests of CAR to the open plains in Tanzania to the bush country in Zimbabwe and Mozambique. Trying to pick one double rifle for all of your future African hunting is near to impossible in my estimation. Go with a double rifle in the .40 caliber range and get a proper bolt action in at least .375 and you are all set in my humble opinion.

 

[Dean2]

I have owned a few double rifles, as well as drillings and combo guns. Yes, the barrels on a double will not be well regualted past 100 yards in most cases. This does not stop me from using them to 3 and 400 yards. Scoped, I can get great groups by using one barrel at 300 yards. I do not see this as being any different than hunting with a single shot rifle. I do not recall the last time I ever had to use a second shot on game, other than a walk up finishing shot. We are talking hunting accuracy, not trying to clover leaf 5 at 500 yards.

 

[KJE81]

I’m certainly no expert when it comes to double rifles but I think you are asking too much from a single double rifle. The result could be a rifle that is mediocre for most situations. I am more of a specialist in my thinking and searches for solutions. A 375 Flanged is likely a bit underpowered for elephant and sometimes, buffalo. In addition, shooting a double rifle accurately past 100 yards can be very challenging, especially with iron sights and considering regulated loads meant for shorter range regulation.

If you really want a double rifle, I would suggest a larger heavier caliber double rifle for dangerous game under 100 yards and closer range plains game under 200 yards. Then, get a .375 H&H bolt action rifle for plains game at longer distances that could also be used for dangerous game if your double rifle is not available at that moment. Trying to do all things with one double rifle is a stretch. I have been on seven safaris to large open range areas and have two more confirmed. The habitat varies from the thick forests of CAR to the open plains in Tanzania to the bush country in Zimbabwe and Mozambique. Trying to pick one double rifle for all of your future African hunting is near to impossible in my estimation. Go with a double rifle in the .40 caliber range and get a proper bolt action in at least .375 and you are all set in my humble opinion.

Thank you for your answer, I have started to think about ordering a doublerifle with two sets of barrels, one for plainsgame and one for the bigger stuff. A boltrifle and a big bore doublerifle would probably be a better choice. But I really would prefer to be able to do both with a doublerifle.

 

[KJE81]

I have owned a few double rifles, as well as drillings and combo guns. Yes, the barrels on a double will not be well regualted past 100 yards in most cases. This does not stop me from using them to 3 and 400 yards. Scoped, I can get great groups by using one barrel at 300 yards. I do not see this as being any different than hunting with a single shot rifle. I do not recall the last time I ever had to use a second shot on game, other than a walk up finishing shot. We are talking hunting accuracy, not trying to clover leaf 5 at 500 yards.

Thank you for your input, thins is just as I think aswell, usually dont use more then one shot on game that is standing still, so hopefully that strategy would work in Africa aswell.

 

[spike.t]

Thank you for your input, thins is just as I think aswell, usually dont use more then one shot on game that is standing still, so hopefully that strategy would work in Africa aswell.

Don't over think it...just go order the rifle , as everyone is more interested in seeing it and obviously getting you to spend your money...

 

[KJE81]

Don't over think it...just go order the rifle , as everyone is more interested in seeing it and obviously getting you to spend your money...

Haha Will do, but unfortunately the swedish authorities process these things very slowly, so it will probably take a couple of months before I get it. Or if it is made to order then the production time plus a couple of months for the very same reason

 

[Woodcarver]

Don't over think it...just go order the rifle , as everyone is more interested in seeing it and obviously getting you to spend your money...

Isn't that the purpose of this forum? To live vicariously through the wallets adventures of others?

 

[RTG]

View attachment 458236

Make sense. Zim is never going to the moon, so metric is fine!

 

[Scott CWO]

Thank you for your answer, I have started to think about ordering a doublerifle with two sets of barrels, one for plainsgame and one for the bigger stuff. A boltrifle and a big bore doublerifle would probably be a better choice. But I really would prefer to be able to do both with a doublerifle.

Two sets of barrels is a great solution.

 

[Nhoro]

This is surprising. It produces comfortably over the 4,000 ft/lbs (5,400 Joules) required according the online resources I've been able to find. Does that mean the belted version of the .375 H&H is also out for ele and buff in Zimbabwe? Is there a site with an actual list of approved calibers rather than just a minimum energy requirement? Thank you in advance--I haven't been able to find it.

I used Ballistics in Perspective by Lagrange for the energy figures. The rimless case comfortably makes the energy but according to Lagrange and Wikipedia, the Flanged does not. Flanged lists a velocity of around 2400 fps, quite a bit lower than the rimless. And I assume that, being designed for the double rifle, you cannot soup it up without losing regulation. Below is the table copied from the book mentioned-mods may remove it as I am not sure about copyright etc.

Cartridge	Bullet Diameter /inches	Bullet Diameter/mm	Bullet Weigh/ Gr	Bullet Weight/g	Velocity/fps	Velocity/ms-1	Muzzle Energy/Ftlbs	Muzzle energy/J
9,3 x 64 Brenneke	0.365	9.27	285	18.47	2750	838	4790	6494
.375 H & H Mag	0.375	9.525'	300	19.44	2550	777	4330	5871
.375 Weatherby	0.375	9.525	300	19.44	2800	853	5223	7081
.378 Weatherby	0.375	9.525	300	19.44	2925	891	5700	7728
.450/.400 3" Jeffrey	0.408	10.36	400	25.92	2100	640	3920	5315
.450/.400 3-1/4 Mag NE	0.405	10.29	400	25.92	2150	655	4110	5572
.404 Jeffrey	0.421	10.69	400	25.92	2225	678	4400	5965
.416Rigby	0.416	10.57	410	26.57	2370	722	5100	6915
.425 Westley Richards	0.435	11.05	410	26.57	2350	716	5010	6793
.500/.4503-WH&H	0.466	11.56	480	31.1	2175	663	5080	6887
.450 No. 2 (3-1/2") N.E.	0.455	11.56	480	31.1	2175	663	5050	6847
.450 3 -1/4"	0.458	11.63	480	31.1	2150	655	4930	6684
.458 Win Mag	0.458	11.63	500	32.4	2130	649	5040	6833
.460 Weatherby	0.458	11.63	500	32.4	2700	823	8095	10975
500/.465 H&H	0.456	11.84	480	31.1	2150	655	4930	6684
.470 Rigby	0.475	12.065	500	32.4	2150	655	5140	6969
.475 Nitro Express	0.476	12.09	480	31.1	2175	663	5040	6833
.475 No. 2 N.E.	0.483	1Z27	480	31.1	2200	671	5170	7009
.475 No. 2 Jeffrey	0.489	12.42	500	32.4	2150	655	5140	6969
.476 Westley Richards	0.476	1Z09	520	33.7	2100	640	5085	6894
.500 Nitro Express 3"	0.51	1Z95	570	36.94	2150	655	5850	7931
.500 Jeffrey Rimless	0.51	12.95	535	34.67	2400	731	6800	9219
.505 Gibbs	0.505	12.83	525	34.02	2300	701	6180	8379
.577 Nitro Express 3"	0.585	14.86	750	48.6	2050	625	7010	9504
.600 Nitro Express	0.622	15.8	900	58.32	1950	594	7600	10304

 

[MMAL]

The other option to not purchasing a second gun is to get a good quality detachable scope mount installed. Iron sights for large close game and a scope with at least one shot spot on out to say 300 yards even if the bullet drops about 34 inches total. Sight it in at 200 and a 300 yard shot drops another 12 inches. No two barrels or two guns.

 

[Nhoro]

The minimum caliber in Zimbabwe is 9.3x62 resp. 9.3x74R. Don Heath had changed it from .375 to 9.3.

As far as I am aware, no current factory ammo will qualify in Zimbabwe. I have been reliably informed that handloads are capable of meeting the criteria in Zimbabwe. The Zim regulations are 9,2 mm and 5,3 kJ (3172 ftlbs) It is unlikely that anyone will stop you but....... at your own risk !

 

[KJE81]

The other option to not purchasing a second gun is to get a good quality detachable scope mount installed. Iron sights for large close game and a scope with at least one shot spot on out to say 300 yards even if the bullet drops about 34 inches total. Sight it in at 200 and a 300 yard shot drops another 12 inches. No two barrels or two guns.

If I decide to go with one barrel set/one gun I will defininately get a quality QD-mount, I am thinking of a Recknagel swing mount since I have this on my Chapuis double rifle and like it. Also for riflescope I am thinking a Swarovski Z8i 1-8x24 since I seem to need more magnification then 5 to make good shots on distances over 80 meters