Traveling With Your Own Rifle to Europe; Bad Idea or Terrible Idea?

[375Fox]

What I understand is that it used to be legal but isn't anymore due to a recent change of the law. Diana Hunting, one of the biggest outfitters in Europe even has is stated on their website by the FAQ section.

If it is always strictly followed is another question. I am on the more cautious side regarding these situations. I would not rent a rifle in Poland if it is offered.

That’s very interesting they list that specifically. I last hunted there two years ago. They also surprisingly list Tanzania where outfitters offer rental rifles. I think renting a rifle will likely fall into a gray area in a lot of countries. If the owner of the rifle is present and in control of rifle at all times I wouldn’t be concerned. I’d be more concerned bringing my own rifle to Poland.

 

[DieJager]

That’s very interesting they list that specifically. I last hunted there two years ago. They also surprisingly list Tanzania where outfitters offer rental rifles. I think renting a rifle will likely fall into a gray area in a lot of countries. If the owner of the rifle is present and in control of rifle at all times I wouldn’t be concerned. I’d be more concerned bringing my own rifle to Poland.

Our national hunting organisation has a detailed page regarding this because a lot of fellow countrymen hunt there. They even have the contact info of the Polish embassy on the page. They are fairly convincing that is is not legal and the punishment is severe.

Here is the translation of the part concerning the rental of guns.

"Please also remember that hunting with any weapon other than your own is prohibited in Poland. This means, among other things, that borrowing a weapon for hunting purposes is prohibited in Poland. Violating the above provisions can have serious consequences, such as the confiscation of guns and other possessions, and can result in imprisonment."

Hunting info Poland by Royal Dutch Hunting Organization (KNJV))

 

[Muskox]

I was told the same thing by K and K Premium Jagd.

I had a work trip a this summer and was going to stay and shoot a couple roe. Couldn't make it work with bringing a rifle so I didn't hunt there.

 

[Muskox]

Speaking on behalf of this forum, Krieghoff guns are most highly regarded as the highest-end German factory rifle.


The selection by favorability (or quality, or price) is as follows, I could be wrong but not by much: Italian double rifle (name the brand), then French Chapuis and/or Verney Carron, then Merkel, then Heym, then Kreighoff, then British fine guns.
(Recently, I heard the term: "Merkel is the CZ of double rifles".)

Interestingly, rarely mentioned on the forum are fine guns by Austrian workshops from small town of Ferlach. Most likely, those are mainly marketed across Europe and haven't reached the American market in significant numbers, thus remaining as lesser-known gems of the rifle world. (Borovnik, Johan Fanzoj, Peter Hofer, Hambrusch, Karl Hauptmann, Housmann, Scheiring). If, arguably, the last step of evolution is the British fine gun, then Austrian guns could be placed just between the Kreighoff and the British gun.

Merkel is not anything like CZ. But both them and Heym and Krieghoff are made on a CNC with very little hand fitting.

Krieghoff isn't a step below a hand made bespoke rifle from any country, it is made by CNC.

There is a stupid notion in the hunting world that a gun made by hand has soul, and is better than a gun made by a robot. Guns are soulless objects, no matter how much we want them to not be. The same as push pins and cars.

Or that a gun made in a certain factory is always better. Every company can produce trash and treasure.

Placing Ferlach guns or British guns as best leaves out a ton of other makers all over Europe and to some extent Canada and America. There are fantastic makers all over Germany and Austria.

Saying that if wanted a mountain rifle for fair weather it would be made by Schierring.

If I wanted a double rifle for dangerous game it would be a Kreighoff Big Game, because of the system and relative accuracy. I'd replace the stock with a fiberglass one, even if scratch built. Possibly a Fuchs double bolt rifle.

If I want something very Willy Wonka and mesmerizing it would be something from Fuchs, Fanzoj or Hofer.

I think Hartmann and Weiss would be hard to beat as the best in the world. They have enough customers in Arab rulers that are only buying million dollar guns, that they own that market.

 

[mark-hunter]

Merkel is not anything like CZ. But both them and Heym and Krieghoff are made on a CNC with very little hand fitting.

Krieghoff isn't a step below a hand made bespoke rifle from any country, it is made by CNC.

There is a stupid notion in the hunting world that a gun made by hand has soul, and is better than a gun made by a robot. Guns are soulless objects, no matter how much we want them to not be. The same as push pins and cars.

Or that a gun made in a certain factory is always better. Every company can produce trash and treasure.

Placing Ferlach guns or British guns as best leaves out a ton of other makers all over Europe and to some extent Canada and America. There are fantastic makers all over Germany and Austria.

Saying that if wanted a mountain rifle for fair weather it would be made by Schierring.

If I wanted a double rifle for dangerous game it would be a Kreighoff Big Game, because of the system and relative accuracy. I'd replace the stock with a fiberglass one, even if scratch built. Possibly a Fuchs double bolt rifle.

If I want something very Willy Wonka and mesmerizing it would be something from Fuchs, Fanzoj or Hofer.

I think Hartmann and Weiss would be hard to beat as the best in the world. They have enough customers in Arab rulers that are only buying million dollar guns, that they own that market.

You understand that putting the entire European gun production in one forum post is impossible? This would require at least a book!
So, thank you for filling in my gaps, it blends in perfectly!

 

[Challer]

What if I just wanted to take my R8 barrel and scope because my loads are developed for and sighted in for my loads? Is this easier or possible?

 

[coreydb]

Gents-I really found this info string informative-truly, as I am pondering buying a double gun myself. I'm going to put myself on a cross here, and say hit me if you can find an open spot, but I believe any gun will do as long as you will do. Of course it has to be in safe operating condition. So, I guess hit me...I need to learn more.

 

[coreydb]

This is all very interesting for me as I’ve been thinking more and more about hunting in Europe. The only time I’ve hunted Europe I went to Scotland and it was extremely easy, but that was in 1985. Didn’t have to do much of anything back then.

I’ve decided to have a new rifle built that I’d love to take hunting in Europe. It’ll be a Parkwest single shot in 7x57. I’ve had a beautiful walnut blank sitting in my gun room for about 40 years and have finally decided to send it to Parkwest where it’ll take about a year to get my rifle.

Pachmayr used to have a stock making business here in California that was located near Oroville (which was also the home of RCBS) about 90 minutes from my home. It was located in an old fruit packing shed complex and they had 2 or 3 buildings completely filled with walnut blanks that were in various stages of drying. Roy Vincent was with me and we spent hours looking at blanks with their manager. Roy picked out a couple blanks that he thought would be great for PH rifles he was building back in Zimbabwe and I picked out a two-piece blank that I was going to have put on a shotgun. My blank was cut from a tree around 1982 if memory serves me. I’ve decided it’s time to build a beautiful single shot rifle with that wood. It seems that taking it to Europe would be ideal. I’m thinking it’s first hunt may be Roe Deer and Gredos Ibex in Spain.

Perfect caliber for both!

 

[gcbailey]

No sarcasm beautiful rifle. I have been trying to find one in 7x65R, 9,3x74R or 10,3x60R. I should have ordered one directly when I got here. They don't come up used very often.

This was the first Hubertus I have ever seen. It was quite light, which is fine for a .243 but I would hope the gun would be a bit heavier for 9.3x74R. That's a great cartridge, but you'd feel it in a lightweight gun like that.

 

[gcbailey]

What if I just wanted to take my R8 barrel and scope because my loads are developed for and sighted in for my loads? Is this easier or possible?

Unfortunately, gun parts are treated the same as if they are firearms, with the exception of scopes.

 

[gcbailey]

Speaking on behalf of this forum, Krieghoff guns are most highly regarded as the highest-end German factory rifle.
At my place, nobody speaks about them; they are financially out of reach for 99% hunters.

The selection by favorability (or quality, or price) is as follows, I could be wrong but not by much: Italian double rifle (name the brand), then French Chapuis and/or Verney Carron, then Merkel, then Heym, then Kreighoff, then British fine guns.
(Recently, I heard the term: "Merkel is the CZ of double rifles".)

Interestingly, rarely mentioned on the forum are fine guns by Austrian workshops from small town of Ferlach. Most likely, those are mainly marketed across Europe and haven't reached the American market in significant numbers, thus remaining as lesser-known gems of the rifle world. (Borovnik, Johan Fanzoj, Peter Hofer, Hambrusch, Karl Hauptmann, Housmann, Scheiring). If, arguably, the last step of evolution is the British fine gun, then Austrian guns could be placed just between the Kreighoff and the British gun.

Visiting hunter to Austria, should visit Ferlach and see those shops.
As Val Trompia and Brescia in Italy are the historical centers of gun development in Italy, Ferlach is the same in Austria.
This is the general European orientation.

Krieghoff's don't make me wrinkle my nose like I just smelled a skunk or anything, but they aren't my cup of tea.The Hubertus I rented was quite nice and got me the Roebuck I was after. I just don't care for teutonic firearms in general, with some exceptions. I admire them for what they are, I just prefer a different style firearm.

 

[gcbailey]

Merkel is not anything like CZ. But both them and Heym and Krieghoff are made on a CNC with very little hand fitting.

Krieghoff isn't a step below a hand made bespoke rifle from any country, it is made by CNC.

There is a stupid notion in the hunting world that a gun made by hand has soul, and is better than a gun made by a robot. Guns are soulless objects, no matter how much we want them to not be. The same as push pins and cars.

Or that a gun made in a certain factory is always better. Every company can produce trash and treasure.

Placing Ferlach guns or British guns as best leaves out a ton of other makers all over Europe and to some extent Canada and America. There are fantastic makers all over Germany and Austria.

Saying that if wanted a mountain rifle for fair weather it would be made by Schierring.

If I wanted a double rifle for dangerous game it would be a Kreighoff Big Game, because of the system and relative accuracy. I'd replace the stock with a fiberglass one, even if scratch built. Possibly a Fuchs double bolt rifle.

If I want something very Willy Wonka and mesmerizing it would be something from Fuchs, Fanzoj or Hofer.

I think Hartmann and Weiss would be hard to beat as the best in the world. They have enough customers in Arab rulers that are only buying million dollar guns, that they own that market.

I understand what you mean. If we are talking religion, then I believe only a person has a soul. However, we also tend to apply the word to inanimate objects that touch our emotions. Most Van Gogh paintings do nothing for me, but a work by Rembrandt or "A Study of Praying Hands" by Albrecht Durer moves me emotionally. The same with any item someone is particularly fond of. An AR15 is a great tool of plastic and wood, but a a WJ Jeffery double rifle to me has "soul." It's that something special that moves you where you can appreciate the artistry of the design and function.

 

[Beck]

All the mentioned countries, with the possible exception of U.K. welcome hunting tourists but, maybe
they are not be happy to have an armed visitor not locally spending any money.
Better you get in touch with all the embassies of the planned countries to know the conditions to enter with firearms.

Get ahold of all of he embassies? This sounds like a pain in the ass...sorry

 

[Sabre]

1. Yes Europe is one place where many of us would say just use the outfitters rifle. They usually have high quality guns. I did get burned once when the guys turret got spun coming in and out of the soft case. It was in Spain. There the rifle permit must be done exactly the same whether you are taking a rifle or not! I would add to the criteria the question of is this an estate hunt or a real mountain hunt? In Spain I thought it was basically a walk in the park based on what I'd seen. Mine was a true mountain hunt and my rifle would have been nice!

2. Most people are stupid and try to take a rifle overseas after buying the cheap flights (on numerous airlines) on their phone. Then they come home and wail about the "snags" they ran into. Use a top travel agent like Patrick Wright and you can then professionally assess the situation with the flights, airlines, and countries. There will be differences in the logistics of taking a rifle to each of the destinations you have listed.

Best of luck on the hunts!

Philip, the first hunt is a free range hunt, but from what I have gathered it won't be mountains, large rolling hills, I'm told.

I have used Patrick for travel before and he is fantastic. I will use him again. On this trip I did not use him because there were fairly direct flights in and out of the different countries I was going to. However, to do it over again, I would have used him to book the flights and hotels for this. Because I just really don't care for that side of it. I know a lot of people enjoy booking their own travel and get a sense of satisfaction out of it. I used to not mind it, but now I just get annoyed with it.

Thank you!