Torn between two calibers

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Reviving my old thread.... As I said, I had myself convinced to just use the 30-06, then bought a 375 Ruger. Well, I sold it already along with the bullets. But, I just found a good deal on a No. 1 in 9.3x74 with a couple of boxes of ammo. My 06 shoots 200 grain partitions very well, but I keep thinking that the wildebeest and zebra won't mind a little more oomph. Somebody talk me out of buying another rifle! The 30-06 is plenty, right?

@Catahoula.
Zebra and wildebeest don't have any objections about getting belted with a 308 and 150 grain accubonds either. They fall down no problems.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

yup @Catahoula just stop pi--ing around and get a 9.3x62 or 9.3x74r and join a discerning group of people

@spike.t
Or he can get A 35 Whelen and join an even more elite group.
Bob.

 

[WAB]

Such an interesting conversation. Professor, I absolutely believe that you have had good results with partitions, you are obviously a very honorable man. However, like Bruce, I have had some very disappointing results and will no longer use them. So odd that different shooters can have such dramatically different results.

 

[crs]

Since no one else spoke up for the .405 WCF I will:

1895 .405 with Factory Hornady 300 grain ammo at 2225 fps. Hand loads to 2400 are common.
Osa Johnson killed African ele and buff with her 1895 .405 using Factory 300 grain JSP !

Using 400 grain .411 Woodie Weldcore at 2076 fps MV in RSA took this Cape Buff:


400 grain Woodies have been hand loaded to 2157 fps MV.

Fun gun.
Have also taken Water buff, and lots of NA game with 300 grain ammo.

Just sayin' .

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

If you could only own one calibre to hunt everything you desire what would it be? Ill chose the 375 H&H....

@Petrus Geldenhuys.
I would take my stoutly loaded 35 Whelen for all I hunt and would gladly take on buffalo of any kind with it as well.
Bob

 

[Graham Hunter]

We all knew that @bruce moulds wasn't about to change his stripes.
Thing is the NP is long in the tooth to be competing with the SAF.
Or any other modern bonded premium or mono-metal soft.

I'm not saying it doesn't work on game.
I'm saying it doesn't work as well as others do on game.
This is of course assuming the same game, caliber, bullet weight & speed.
And the mother of them all SHOT PLACEMENT.

Saying the NP is long in the tooth is like saying a Chev truck is long in the tooth. Your 2020 Chey is not the same truck as your 1957 Chevy. Nosler has modified the Partition in jacket design by thickness and taper. Still a Chevy and still a Partiton. On our hunt last year I got to see both a 28 Nosler and a 416 Rigby in action on quite a few animals both loaded with A Frames. Worked very well except for a couple of occasions. One was a frontal shot on a Buff at about 75yds. with a 400gr.416 Rigby. Hit the center of the chest turned and hit the inside of the left shoulder and followed the ribs down and ended up under the hide. Very little damage inflicted. Small nick to one lung was all. The second was a 175gr SAF from a 28 Nosler on a Gemsbok at about 100yds. Shot was a little back but penciled right thru. I think in some circumstances the Swift is a little too stout for consistent expansion.

 

[Professor Mawla]

again i say, pictures of dead animals or trophies prove nothing.
the fact that you are still posting proves that you are still alive.
when you stop posting, i will suspect that either a tiger or a bovine and a nosler partition have come together in an unsatisfactory manner.
if you have trouble with a swift it will most likely only be due to porr shooting.
bruce.

@bruce moulds
People say the same thing about the .458 Winchester Magnum , the Hornady DGS and using buckshot to stop charging leopards . I have been using all of those things , and ( as you so correctly pointed out ) I am still here . Unscratched .

I am speculating that perhaps you encountered a few faulty batches of Nosler Partition bullets . But in 40 years of using Nosler Partition bullets in all calibres ( ranging from 7x57 mm Mauser to .458 Winchester Magnum ) , I have not have even one fail to stop anything . The law of averages dictates that if something bad has not happened to me in 40 years , then I am reasonably safe . I have used them for broadside double lung shots on your Australian water buffalo , and the animals only went 80 - 85 yards before dropping dead . I have never used them on Gaur , however ( I only use Hornady DGS 500 grain flat nosed steel jacketed solids for that ) . However , they are very very effective on Royal Bengal tigers and Asiatic leopards .

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

What will you be aiming at? If DG is excluded, I would look at the 300H&H Magnum or 338 Win Magnum. If recoil is not your thing, get the 300H&H. My wife has one and she has taken just about anything below the DG category with it; Kudu, Oryx, Impala, Warthog, BWB, all with single shot kills. Distances 50-300 meters.

If you don't mind a bit of recoil, get the 338WM, it can also be used to take everything below DG. I shoot it and it has not let me down yet.

If your sights are on DG as well, then 375H&H would be the minimum calibre for SA. If memory serves me right and you hunt Namibia, they only have an energy restriction on DG of something like 3 980 ft-lbs. If you have a VERY HOT loaded 338WM 300 grainer or a 338 Lapua Magnum, you should be good to go

However, just because 375H&H is minimum calibre for DG, it should not necessarily be the go-to calibre. There is much to say for knocking a charging buffalo on his ass with a 416 Rigby.

Most important, pick the calibre that you are comfortable with. Can handle really well and shoot accurately. If you are comfy with the HOWA dirty-ol'-six and DG is not on your list, take the -06, it is more than sufficient for anything you would come across in SA (except DG), especially bush hunting where you would be lucky to get a 250 meter shot in. Most shots will be 40-160 meters. If you will also be doing some plains shooting (as you have mentioned), the 300H&H Magnum or 338WM should serve you well. My Father in Law is a one gun man and has taken a Kudu at 450 meters with the -06. So even the -06 will be more than adequate for plains shooting.

@doodsangel
If 3,900 fpe of energy is the minimum for DG the 35 Whelen has it covered as well. With a 250 or 275grain premium bullet it has no problems breaking the 4,000fpe mark.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Bruce , all I’m hearing is .375 is still the better option.

@CBH
If you listen carefully you will hear the 35 Whelen calling you in the background. You have to be open minded and listen carefully tho.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

chris,
we should go hunting camels or donkeys together, you with your 375 and i with my 9.3 using equivalent quality bullets.
the casual or experienced observer would not be able to tell the difference.
come to think of it, we should invite bob as well to see how the 35/06 stacks up.
bruce.

@bruce moulds
I would gladly join you both in that hunt and we could have a realistic comparison betwixt the three. I think the 35/06 More commonly known as the MIGHTY WHELEN would acquit it self admirably.
Bring it on.
Bob

 

[Graham Hunter]

@CBH
If you listen carefully you will hear the 35 Whelen calling you in the background. You have to be open minded and listen carefully tho.
Bob

It's thanks to you that I brought my 35 Whelen from being a safe queen to using it quite frequently now. When I 1st acquired it years and years ago I shot it with factory ammo. Nice gun but nothing exciting! Then after all your raving I started reloading for it. Wow what a difference. mind you I am stuffing it with NP's so I will probably get all my exercise tracking wounded animals.

 

[BeeMaa]

Saying the NP is long in the tooth is like saying a Chev truck is long in the tooth. Your 2020 Chey is not the same truck as your 1957 Chevy. Nosler has modified the Partition in jacket design by thickness and taper. Still a Chevy and still a Partiton. On our hunt last year I got to see both a 28 Nosler and a 416 Rigby in action on quite a few animals both loaded with A Frames. Worked very well except for a couple of occasions. One was a frontal shot on a Buff at about 75yds. with a 400gr.416 Rigby. Hit the center of the chest turned and hit the inside of the left shoulder and followed the ribs down and ended up under the hide. Very little damage inflicted. Small nick to one lung was all. The second was a 175gr SAF from a 28 Nosler on a Gemsbok at about 100yds. Shot was a little back but penciled right thru. I think in some circumstances the Swift is a little too stout for consistent expansion.

Nosler Partition was not bonded in 1948.
Still not bonded in 2020.
I didn't say it was a bad bullet, just that there are better ones.

Do you happen to remember the original Hornady DGX bullet?
Yep, it was NOT bonded and it failed...several times.
So severe was the backlash that Hornady was pulling them off the shelves.
Their new DGX bullet is clearly labeled "DGX bonded" for a reason.
Bonding the core to the jacket works...it just does.
Not an argument, not a discussion...it's a fact.
And still, I will admit that the NP is a good bullet...but not a premium one.

If you are happy driving your Father's Chevy, so be it.
The fact remains that there have been technological advances since then.
Choosing to ignore those advances is your choice.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

It's thanks to you that I brought my 35 Whelen from being a safe queen to using it quite frequently now. When I 1st acquired it years and years ago I shot it with factory ammo. Nice gun but nothing exciting! Then after all your raving I started reloading for it. Wow what a difference. mind you I am stuffing it with NP's so I will probably get all my exercise tracking wounded animals.

@Graham Hunter
Just switch to 225 grain accubonds or Woodleigh at 2,800 to 2,950 fps. If you want to go bigger go the 250grain Speer hotcore or Woodleigh at 2,700 fps .
The Whelen will take all you want. If you want the ultimate in penetration go for the 225 grain woodleigh hydrostatic, 280 swift Aframe or the 225grain TSX.
Bob

 

[Graham Hunter]

Nosler Partition was not bonded in 1948.
Still not bonded in 2020.
I didn't say it was a bad bullet, just that there are better ones.

Do you happen to remember the original Hornady DGX bullet?
Yep, it was NOT bonded and it failed...several times.
So severe was the backlash that Hornady was pulling them off the shelves.
Their new DGX bullet is clearly labeled "DGX bonded" for a reason.
Bonding the core to the jacket works...it just does.
Not an argument, not a discussion...it's a fact.
And still, I will admit that the NP is a good bullet...but not a premium one.

If you are happy driving your Father's Chevy, so be it.
The fact remains that there have been technological advances since then.
Choosing to ignore those advances is your choice.

Not driving Dad's 57. I agree that bonding can improve some bullets. But I have seen where some of the "Premium Bonded" bullets have had more failures or poor performance than non bonded. Same with monumetals. Trust me with the amount of hunting I do I would be the 1st to switch bullets if
i wasn't having great success with Partitions. And it was most certainly not just the lack of bonding that made the Horn DGX a bad bullet.

 

[CBH Australia]

chris,
we should go hunting camels or donkeys together, you with your 375 and i with my 9.3 using equivalent quality bullets.
the casual or experienced observer would not be able to tell the difference.
come to think of it, we should invite bob as well to see how the 35/06 stacks up.
bruce.

Bruce, tell me what I’m loading and I will try source some. I owe you a coffee so we need to catch up.
I do have some Woodleigh etc.
Honestly I brought he .375 after reading it’s the classic DG chambering and legal minimum in some African countries.
I want toHunt Buffalo in Australia some time but happy to assist with pest culling . I’m a shooter not a trophy hunter, I aim for clean kills and improving my skills. I just enjoy my rifle time and this site.
Reloading today as the weather is poor, just came up to reheat pizza and got sidetracked

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Bruce, tell me what I’m loading and I will try source some. I owe you a coffee so we need to catch up.
I do have some Woodleigh etc.
Honestly I brought he .375 after reading it’s the classic DG chambering and legal minimum in some African countries.
I want toHunt Buffalo in Australia some time but happy to assist with pest culling . I’m a shooter not a trophy hunter, I aim for clean kills and improving my skills. I just enjoy my rifle time and this site.
Reloading today as the weather is poor, just came up to reheat pizza and got sidetracked

@CBH
Take a good fridge with you Chris camels are bloody good eating.
Would love to join you and Bruce.
Bob

 

[CBH Australia]

@CBH
If you listen carefully you will hear the 35 Whelen calling you in the background. You have to be open minded and listen carefully tho.
Bob

Bob, not just yet. She only approved the P.O. last night for a .25-06 Tikka to build my .280ai . Deposit paid new old stock.

Now it just so happens the action and magazine would work with a .35Bob.

If a cheap barrel comes up It might be something to investigate.

I’m accumulating the components for the .289ai a time present That’s adding up.

I need to record the load data people shared. I’m going to run 120s in the 7mm-08 and I want this to be a good step up from that for performance.

 

[CBH Australia]

@CBH
Take a good fridge with you Chris camels are bloody good eating.
Would love to join you and Bruce.
Bob

If Bruce is keen something might come of it.
We would take our Von Gruff knives that’s for sure!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

If Bruce is keen something might come of it.
We would take our Von Gruff knives that’s for sure!

@CBH
I'd take my Grohman and Ted Mitchell knives as well as some butcher knives for meat
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Bob, not just yet. She only approved the P.O. last night for a .25-06 Tikka to build my .280ai . Deposit paid new old stock.

Now it just so happens the action and magazine would work with a .35Bob.

If a cheap barrel comes up It might be something to investigate.

I’m accumulating the components for the .289ai a time present That’s adding up.

I need to record the load data people shared. I’m going to run 120s in the 7mm-08 and I want this to be a good step up from that for performance.

@CBH
A 25 ought six barrel, a 280AI barrel and a Whelen barrel all bases covered.
Bob