Tipping Guide

[Red Leg]

I get it ! ))) And I myself hate the elite clubs circle in European football. But what you write about, isn't it pure socialism, by definition? There must be at least something good in socialism, Comrades )) Like Comrade Sanders said ))!

Now linking it to safaris in South Africa:

US clients tip like crazy (in European / Ocean / Asian / South-american, actually global - except North-american - standards). Outfitters, farms love them for that.
Then a French, Australian or German guy starts booking a hunt there. And he is either not really welcomed - my personal experience when trying to directly book a hunt in Namibia without a hunting travel agency, because Yankees wield money bundles far thicker/better - or he is expected to comply to US tipping standards. But obviously he is not planning to travel neither to bespoke Rome or to the US, does he? Some socialism, as in US sports, here would be nice, wouldn't it?

I guess the US deserved the Biden/Harris ticket )))

Oh give me a break. I am so thoroughly tired of European (or in your case Eurasian?) whining about our cultural norms compared to your self-proclaimed superior ethics with regard to the "help" that I had quit reading this thread. And of course you feel compelled to make a political comparison as well. If you want to go down that particular rat hole, I'll gladly take my mess instead of yours any day. I suspect history will as well.

But the truth is, I could care less how you treat your PH, your tracker, or the poor man cooking your food or the poor woman making your bed. Your indifference to their condition is irrelevant to me.

But I do pay attention to it. I do so primarily because I genuinely appreciate what they do, but also I am convinced that attention has paid me enormous dividends on hunts, in restaurants, and hotels worldwide. That you don't like it is little more than slightly irritating to me. That said, if your attitude with your outfitter, PH, or housekeeper is anything like you illustrate here, I have no doubt their service might very well have been anything other than what was absolutely necessary.

With respect to socialism, it has been kicked to the curb of history several times. It will again. It fundamentally ignores the basic motivations of our species.

You compound your lack of understanding about our market system when you bring up the the NFL salary cap (twice now). You really should look into how the players union and management negotiated the current salary cap in football (necessitated due to the large numbers of players on each team) to maximize profits and salaries for both players and ownership. That isn't socialism - that is fundamental capitalism. Based on your posts, I am not surprised you fail to understand that.

 

[Artur S]

Were you there in Africa when the first American showed up and started tipping? Is this documented somewhere ? What a ridiculous claim to make. I'm not even American and spit my drink out reading that garbage. Who claims Americans started tipping culture in Africa? Its obvious the Europeans didn't tip when you first got there. You guys were to busy colonizing and taking everything from them.

And if you feel you are not treated the same when you arrive in Africa. Look in the mirror. Don't blame the tipping scheme. They don't know you won't tip until the end of the trip. So if they treated you like shit the whole way through I think that's you problem my friend.

Your professional sports leagues being a clear definition of socialism, is as clear as mud. Might want to go back to the drawing board for that argument.

As a matter of fact - neither I, nor someone from my generation has colonized Africa. I refuse inherited guilt.
And before You start dishing out personal insults - Read this thread, read the posts from European hunters and their view on this matter. And also the posts from RSA people, how they see tipping and changes in it with US tourists coming in.

BTW, Fabulous arguments about sports leagues, lots of facts, no doubt about that ! Don't be lazy, do some research, at least read a couple of pages of present thread. And then, don't just ejaculate your opinion and don't just judge, argue and bring up facts!

 

[Chago]

As a matter of fact - neither I, nor someone from my generation has colonized Africa. I refuse inherited guilt.
And before You start dishing out personal insults - Read this thread, read the posts from European hunters and their view on this matter. And also the posts from RSA people, how they see tipping and changes in it with US tourists coming in.

BTW, Fabulous arguments about sports leagues, lots of facts, no doubt about that ! Don't be lazy, do some research, at least read a couple of pages of present thread. And then, don't just ejaculate your opinion and don't just judge, argue and bring up facts!

Ok I'll bite.

You won't inherit guilt. Yet my initial comment was about you claiming "Americans started tipping in Africa" I assume you meant Americans before this generation right? Since none of us were alive when Americans started going there right ? So you don't inherit guilt but happily place it on others. Good good now we are making progress.

I am actually thoroughly vetted on this thread. I add color commentary every few pages to the cheap skates justifying why they shouldn't tip a lady $20 for washing your clothes and doing your bed all week. I know I know. It us Americans with all of our money right. I know. I get it. 2 weeks in Africa, hunting 10 animals and eating and drinking like a king. Costs less money then a weekend in Paris. Apparently the French have tons of cash too.

And please explain to me all this research you have done on communism in the NFL? You say these things like there are studies and written documentation on the topic. No... Comrade. This is your very bias opinion. That's all it is. And quite delusional as well.

And I don't even know why you are arguing about the American way of life. Didn't your country send a man to America to learn the American way of life and bring it back to Kazakhstan? I loved his bathing suit by by the way. It's really become popular in American culture.

 

[Artur S]

Oh give me a break. I am so thoroughly tired of European (or in your case Eurasian?) whining about our cultural norms compared to your self-proclaimed superior ethics with regard to the "help" that I had quit reading this thread. And of course you feel compelled to make a political comparison as well. If you want to go down that particular rat hole, I'll gladly take my mess instead of yours any day. I suspect history will as well.

But the truth is, I could care less how you treat your PH, your tracker, or the poor man cooking your food or the poor woman making your bed. Your indifference to their condition is irrelevant to me.

But I do pay attention to it. I am convinced that attention has paid me enormous dividends on hunts, in restaurants, and hotels worldwide. That you don't like it is little more than slightly irritating to me. That said, if your attitude with your outfitter, PH, or housekeeper is anything like you illustrate here, I have no doubt their service might very well have been anything other than what was absolutely necessary.

With respect to socialism, it has been kicked to the curb by history several times. It will again. It fundamentally ignores the basic motivations of our species.

You compound your lack of understanding about our market system when you bring up the the NFL salary cap. You really should look into how the players union and management negotiated the current salary cap in football (necessitated due to the large numbers of players on each team) to maximize profits and salaries for both players and ownership. That isn't socialism - that is fundamental capitalism. Based on your posts, I am not surprised you fail to understand that.

I do believe that the self-proclamation of superior values and ethics is rather on the other side... The World observes the emanation of certain high values and ethics for the last 76 years... I guess You are entitled to it. By the right of the economic and military hegemony.

And as previously stated, I personally do value and admire lots of things coming from this corner. yet not all.



But it's kind of amusing to observe how some people/societies develop allergic reactions when a mirror is held in front of them. Or a sting is placed in their bread and circuses, the holy grail of anglo-saxon capitalism and achievement ideology. Unions or not, a cap is a cap. I wonder why such approaches are nowhere to be found in financial industry, or big tech? I am confused, so, where is capitalism to be found, in US sports leagues or banking industry, or giant internet corp? Double standards?

What You write about, are hybrid systems/approaches, a la Nash, to benefit all parties involved, no pure capitalism to be found there in a hundred years, far from that.

I have worked for 2 decades with US companies, co-developed several luxury hotel properties literally worldwide, on 3 continents, on some islands. All for US chains/brands.

And believe me, the US mentality is not really famous for being especially tactful or graceful towards foreign cultures. WORLDWIDE. The cowboy hat & jeans guy with his feet on the table, no sense for local cuisine, culture, is unfortunately a too often confirmed clichee. I do not even mention being able to speak more than one language. Than seems to be a European / Asian, Eurasian clichee.

You wield money bundles, we build friendships.

 

[Artur S]

Ok I'll bite.

You won't inherit guilt. Yet my initial comment was about you claiming "Americans started tipping in Africa" I assume you meant Americans before this generation right? Since none of us were alive when Americans started going there right ? So you don't inherit guilt but happily place it on others. Good good now we are making progress.

I am actually thoroughly vetted on this thread. I add color commentary every few pages to the cheap skates justifying why they shouldn't tip a lady $20 for washing your clothes and doing your bed all week. I know I know. It us Americans with all of our money right. I know. I get it. 2 weeks in Africa, hunting 10 animals and eating and drinking like a king. Costs less money then a weekend in Paris. Apparently the French have tons of cash too.

And please explain to me all this research you have done on communism in the NFL? You say these things like there are studies and written documentation on the topic. No... Comrade. This is your very bias opinion. That's all it is. And quite delusional as well.

And I don't even know why you are arguing about the American way of life. Didn't your country send a man to America to learn the American way of life and bring it back to Kazakhstan? I loved his bathing suit by by the way. It's really become popular in American culture.

If I were into this game, I should come up with Indians, Inuit and French to club a Canuck ))) Some First Nations and rapacious colonial land grabbing guilt ))) Thanks God, I am a conservative )))

It seems that You are not much into words and written arguments and a debate:
Here's some video content for You to digest, fits the sport capitalism idea:

Is it it your highlight argument to come up with Borat ? It's a US-UK Jewish guy filming in Romania (a beautiful country and hunting destination, btw) mocking US hillbillies and white trash, isnt't he? And I see no difference between Sasketchewan and Alabama average education levels.

My other half is German. What will you come up with, Hitler? Or Porsche?

 

[K-man]

My other half is German. What will you come up with, Hitler? Or Porsche?

Interesting. You couldn't come up with something hunting related, like Heym or Blaser?

 

[Chago]

If I were into this game, I should come up with Indians, Inuit and French to club a Canuck ))) Some First Nations and rapacious colonial land grabbing guilt ))) Thanks God, I am a conservative )))

It seems that You are not much into words and written arguments and a debate:
Here's some video content for You to digest, fits the sport capitalism idea:

Is it it your highlight argument to come up with Borat ? It's a US-UK Jewish guy filming in Romania (a beautiful country and hunting destination, btw) mocking US hillbillies and white trash, isnt't he? And I see no difference between Sasketchewan and Alabama average education levels.

My other half is German. What will you come up with, Hitler? Or Porsche?

Hahaha I don't even know where to begin with your propaganda video. But who am I to argue. Seems totally legit.... You and those Brits in the video figured it all out.

I thought I made it clear in the last post. You don't inherit guilt but happily pass it in the first place claiming Americans ruined the tipping structure in Africa. And now you have passed some more using words you thought made sense but you didn't use them correctly. And I really have no problem with colonization. I am very well aware of how Canada was founded. I was just pointing out your ridiculous claim that Americans started tipping in Africa and should be held accountable for their actions. So I pointed out that you are right it was them who came to Africa and started giving and not taking. And you clearly got very offended by that. As you are still trying to pass inherited guilt on to others. But it's ok man let it out. I can handle it.

So wait Borat wasn't a true documentary? They fooled me again. Damn Hollywood.

Saskatchewan and Alabama are both beautiful places. You should actually visit both. Saskatchewan has the planets best white tail deer hunting and Alabama has BBQ you can't even imagine. And both have some of the nicest people in both America and Canada. But I'm sure your textbook didn't teach you that. You just learned all the stereotypes and did not even know those very stereotypes are actually from other parts of USA and Canada. But in all honesty you again screwed up. You literally couldn't have picked two places that were more of a polar opposite. But again you are trying I get it.

I am of croatian descent. So unfortunately I am in the same boat with you on the last comment. So we can call it even on that one.

Have a nice day. I'm going to bed dreaming of Limpopo this summer. Where I plan on bringing tip money. And continuing to ruin Africa for you with all those tips.

 

[Chago]

I do believe that the self-proclamation of superior values and ethics is rather on the other side... The World observes the emanation of certain high values and ethics for the last 76 years... I guess You are entitled to it. By the right of the economic and military hegemony.

And as previously stated, I personally do value and admire lots of things coming from this corner. yet not all.



But it's kind of amusing to observe how some people/societies develop allergic reactions when a mirror is held in front of them. Or a sting is placed in their bread and circuses, the holy grail of anglo-saxon capitalism and achievement ideology. Unions or not, a cap is a cap. I wonder why such approaches are nowhere to be found in financial industry, or big tech? I am confused, so, where is capitalism to be found, in US sports leagues or banking industry, or giant internet corp? Double standards?

What You write about, are hybrid systems/approaches, a la Nash, to benefit all parties involved, no pure capitalism to be found there in a hundred years, far from that.

I have worked for 2 decades with US companies, co-developed several luxury hotel properties literally worldwide, on 3 continents, on some islands. All for US chains/brands.

And believe me, the US mentality is not really famous for being especially tactful or graceful towards foreign cultures. WORLDWIDE. The cowboy hat & jeans guy with his feet on the table, no sense for local cuisine, culture, is unfortunately a too often confirmed clichee. I do not even mention being able to speak more than one language. Than seems to be a European / Asian, Eurasian clichee.

You wield money bundles, we build friendships.

Lmao man I love this guy. Your closing paragraph to this PHD thesis was amazing. You hear that @Red Leg. The world doesn't like the fact that all Americans wear cowboy hats and jeans. And always putting your damn feet on the table at restaurants.... Lmao have you ever even been to America? In all those years working with Americans... How many Americans did you actually work with? That stereotype you came up with was taken straight from "Fistful of dollars". Shit most Americans I know wished Artur version of America was reality. Artur your stereotypes and theories on what you think you know about America are amazing. Keep up the good work brother.

 

[Red Leg]

I do believe that the self-proclamation of superior values and ethics is rather on the other side... The World observes the emanation of certain high values and ethics for the last 76 years... I guess You are entitled to it. By the right of the economic and military hegemony.

And as previously stated, I personally do value and admire lots of things coming from this corner. yet not all.



But it's kind of amusing to observe how some people/societies develop allergic reactions when a mirror is held in front of them. Or a sting is placed in their bread and circuses, the holy grail of anglo-saxon capitalism and achievement ideology. Unions or not, a cap is a cap. I wonder why such approaches are nowhere to be found in financial industry, or big tech? I am confused, so, where is capitalism to be found, in US sports leagues or banking industry, or giant internet corp? Double standards?

What You write about, are hybrid systems/approaches, a la Nash, to benefit all parties involved, no pure capitalism to be found there in a hundred years, far from that.

I have worked for 2 decades with US companies, co-developed several luxury hotel properties literally worldwide, on 3 continents, on some islands. All for US chains/brands.

And believe me, the US mentality is not really famous for being especially tactful or graceful towards foreign cultures. WORLDWIDE. The cowboy hat & jeans guy with his feet on the table, no sense for local cuisine, culture, is unfortunately a too often confirmed clichee. I do not even mention being able to speak more than one language. Than seems to be a European / Asian, Eurasian clichee.

You wield money bundles, we build friendships.

You are right. You and yours are the envy of the civilized world and your tact and negotiating skills should be studied as the norm for civilized international discourse. We rubes stand in awe of your success and acumen. You have to admit, however, it is a little amusing how all that is working out for you. I only wish my countrymen employing your services had a better understanding of their investment.

This particular cowboy in jeans ( I am a Texan no less) speaks German, French, and Arabic (though it is a bit rusty). His English isn't bad either. I can also work my way through a Spanish or Italian newspaper. Sadly, Portuguese still defeats me. I have spent my adult life, professionally and privately, abroad. I have sat around a Bedouin Kabsa on the edge of the Empty Quarter, negotiated with military and government contemporaries throughout the Persian Gulf region, and even debated international relations with Russian counterparts at Harvard. I have lived for several years in Europe. I travel there often. In short, I am somewhat underwhelmed with your self-proclaimed worldliness. So let's quit comparing tail length.

After decades, I have still not concluded what is the worst characteristic of your ilk- your assumed cultural superiority or your jealousy of American achievement. Both characteristics are to uneducated and unenlightened Americans like me - ugly.

But back to the subject of this particular discussion. You should feel free to fiscally abuse whomever you wish wherever you encounter them. Those actions are between you and your conscious. I suspect those actions are repaid often in turn. I, on the other hand, will gladly continue sharing some small measure of my success with those less gifted by circumstance or opportunity. I would suggest that if my actions in any way bother you, that is your problem - not mine.

 

[Artur S]

Hahaha I don't even know where to begin with your propaganda video Again those opinion statements Arguments?. But who am I to argue. Seems totally legit.... You and those Brits.. Those were Brits? Then of course, they must have been wrong, automatically. What's your problem with ethnicity / origin of people ?? Some Ustase heritage? in the video figured it all out.

I thought I made it clear in the last post. You don't inherit guilt but happily pass it in the first place claiming Americans ruined the tipping structure in Africa. And now you have passed some more using words you thought made sense but you didn't use them correctly. And I really have no problem with colonization. I am very well aware of how Canada was founded.

I was just pointing out your ridiculous claim that Americans started tipping in Africa and should be held accountable for their actions.
WHERE in hell did I state that ?? Where did I write something about US and accountability ??? Don't drink and chat, dude ))

To bring it into some context for You:
Not everybody, who posted in this thread or visits Africa for hunting, likes or condones certain current "americanesque" habits for tipping, which have developed there in the past. God forbid, even some hunters from the US had a feeling to be pressured for more tips and felt being shaken down! And they even wrote here about it! Who should they blame now and hold accountable, according to your approach ? Those greedy Europeans?

No one is holding anybody accountable. We express our opinions, we highlight something what we deem worthwhile doing so.

So wait Borat wasn't a true documentary? They fooled me again. Damn Hollywood.

Not sure I understand Your sense of humor here.

Saskatchewan and Alabama are both beautiful places. You should actually visit both. Saskatchewan has the planets best white tail deer hunting and Alabama has BBQ you can't even imagine. And both have some of the nicest people in both America and Canada. But I'm sure your textbook didn't teach you that. You just learned all the stereotypes and did not even know those very stereotypes are actually from other parts of USA and Canada. But in all honesty you again screwed up. You literally couldn't have picked two places that were more of a polar opposite. But again you are trying I get it.

I have actually been to Sasketchewan. Spent a weekend on a farm there, invited by my former colleague in Toronto. And seen many parts of Ontario, and Vancouver city. Years ago, though. And I liked the BBQ in Texas, and Georgia.
I and my croatian friends here have a word for what you are aiming at: Seljacina. It's the same in Russian.
I like Your occasional "reference" to my ability of writing down my thoughts in English. I mean, You being probably a native English speaker. That shows Your good manners and how well versed You are in various languages ))

I am of croatian descent. So unfortunately I am in the same boat with you on the last comment. So we can call it even on that one.

Have a nice day. I'm going to bed dreaming of Limpopo this summer. Where I plan on bringing tip money. And continuing to ruin Africa for you with all those tips.

No way You can ruin Africa for me.

 

[Artur S]

You are right. You and yours are the envy of the civilized world and your tact and negotiating skills should be studied as the norm for civilized international discourse. We rubes stand in awe of your success and acumen. You have to admit, however, it is a little amusing how all that is working out for you. I only wish my countrymen employing your services had a better understanding of their investment.

This particular cowboy in jeans ( I am a Texan no less) speaks German, French, and Arabic (though it is a bit rusty). His English isn't bad either. I can also work my way through a Spanish or Italian newspaper. Sadly, Portuguese still defeats me. I have spent my adult life, professionally and privately, abroad. I have sat around a Bedouin Kabsa on the edge of the Empty Quarter, negotiated with military and government contemporaries throughout the Persian Gulf region, and even debated international relations with Russian counterparts at Harvard. I have lived for several years in Europe. I travel there often. In short, I am somewhat underwhelmed with your self-proclaimed worldliness. So let's quit comparing tail length.

After decades, I have still not concluded what is the worst characteristic of your ilk- your assumed cultural superiority or your jealousy of American achievement. Both characteristics are to uneducated and unenlightened Americans like me - ugly.

But back to the subject of this particular discussion. You should feel free to fiscally abuse whomever you wish wherever you encounter them. Those actions are between you and your conscious. I suspect those actions are repaid often in turn. I, on the other hand, will gladly continue sharing some small measure of my success with those less gifted by circumstance or opportunity. I would suggest that if my actions in any way bother you, that is your problem - not mine.

Oh this victimizing crap about civilized world and envy of the barbarians ))) That is a show act and Hollywood. Why don't You get it: The world does not envy the US achievement, it's too busy building / preserving its own.

You claim to have travelled the bigger part of this planet - specifically Europe. So You know there are other successful countries with a wealthy population. Why do You play that "jealous of American achievement" card ??? If that is your experience after all those travels, then it's very poor...

It's a pity you guys are taking some differing opinion/view that personally, and do not accept it. It may as well contain some criticism in it - oh I forgot, everything's perfect there, love it or shut up.

I have met and worked with hundreds of Americans, seen them for years checking in and out in top hotels in Asia, Europe. All sorts of people, Harvard & MIT profs, architects, engineers, designers, artists, business owners, many bankers. You would be the first one to be such a polyglot. In 90% only english, 10% some Spanish. And many many with a demanding and superior aura and style about them.
Come on, You yourself must have observed your fellow countrymen when abroad and must have seen how different from other folks they behave, present themselves. Most, not all, Europeans and Asians have a more attentive, considerate approach.
I have never seen anybody else pat a concierge on his cheek and throw (I mean literally throw) a bill on his desk. But I have seen at least 20 times american hotel guests doing exactly that!

I have witnessed for years how German or British engineers line up and treat their workers/teams, and have seen as many times US guys doing that. In most cases the US guys were harsher, more rude, with quite a demanding attitude.

You are getting me wrong and labeling me wrong - I am not anti US, I have friends and relatives there, been there and like it there! But a little bit of consideration, self reflection and criticism does not hurt nobody.

Believe me - if there would be a global popularity contest, you guys would not win it ))) Nor would the russians or germans or chinese ))) neither would be even in the run-up !

 

[VertigoBE]

You are right. You and yours are the envy of the civilized world and your tact and negotiating skills should be studied as the norm for civilized international discourse. We rubes stand in awe of your success and acumen. You have to admit, however, it is a little amusing how all that is working out for you. I only wish my countrymen employing your services had a better understanding of their investment.

This particular cowboy in jeans ( I am a Texan no less) speaks German, French, and Arabic (though it is a bit rusty). His English isn't bad either. I can also work my way through a Spanish or Italian newspaper. Sadly, Portuguese still defeats me. I have spent my adult life, professionally and privately, abroad. I have sat around a Bedouin Kabsa on the edge of the Empty Quarter, negotiated with military and government contemporaries throughout the Persian Gulf region, and even debated international relations with Russian counterparts at Harvard. I have lived for several years in Europe. I travel there often. In short, I am somewhat underwhelmed with your self-proclaimed worldliness. So let's quit comparing tail length.

After decades, I have still not concluded what is the worst characteristic of your ilk- your assumed cultural superiority or your jealousy of American achievement. Both characteristics are to uneducated and unenlightened Americans like me - ugly.

But back to the subject of this particular discussion. You should feel free to fiscally abuse whomever you wish wherever you encounter them. Those actions are between you and your conscious. I suspect those actions are repaid often in turn. I, on the other hand, will gladly continue sharing some small measure of my success with those less gifted by circumstance or opportunity. I would suggest that if my actions in any way bother you, that is your problem - not mine.

Well said @Red Leg. I hope however this is not your view of all Europeans

 

[Red Leg]

Well said @Red Leg. I hope however this is not your view of all Europeans

Of course not. I love Europe. I love its culture, its living history, and even much of its formality. Though I hate driving in Rome and wherever a roundabout may be found. I particularly love its relative ‘smallness.” I do not mean that in anyway but geographically. Here in the States, I may drive 200km to meet someone for lunch. In Europe, I am likely to be in a different country, speaking a different language, and on the other side of momentous historical events. In no other place on the planet is such diversity wedged into such a limited region. I also would suggest that may have some small influence on European multilingual tradition.

Americans are indeed different. We also differ regionally and culturally among ourselves. The vast majority will be lucky to leave the country of their birth once in their lives. They are not exposed to foreign languages early in their lives other than in the classroom and have no opportunity to practice. Picking up those skills later in life is difficult.

We are far less formal than Europeans. That can be perceived as rudeness. Our table manners or odd - what are we doing with that left hand in our lap? We tend to be indifferent about our clothing. We are, or at least were until this new generation became woke, generally proud of our country. The vast majority of us, even those who get around a bit, would much rather live here than anywhere else we have been. Some consider that a form of arrogance, to most of us it feels more like common sense.

Most of us don’t take well to receiving lectures about our perceived faults or lack of sophistication or lack of worldliness. There is an independent streak that is easily triggered and is deeply coded into our DNA. I should note that too is apparently changing as Third World immigration slowly overwhelms our traditions turning us into obedient chattel. Culturally, I think we will be far less interesting if they are successful.

This thread is supposed to be about tipping. I regret that it devolved into one of these cultural shouting matches. If I and my countrymen seem arrogant to @Artur S because we do not subscribe to his cultural norms with regard to tipping, then that is unfortunate. But those norms are not mine and have no bearing on my considerations with regard to rewarding service.

 

[gordon kings langley]

Not this old chestnut again.
In all the years I have hunted is SA I have not seen any poor outfitters?
if they paid a realistic salary to the staff tipping would not be required.

 

[Zambezi]

Then you must have only hunted with the biggest and best equipped outfitters. I can tell you the majority of outfitters carry HUGE mortgages and HUGE loans on vehicles etc etc plus have a staff compliment of at least half a dozen to two dozen. I would suggest maybe acquainting yourself with the facts / expenses and logistics of running a decent outfit. It may surprise you to know that above the salary paid to staff, the outfitters routinely pay school fees for the children, pay towards their school uniforms, provide towards general medical expenses etc.

Public liability insurance is costly, even getting diesel delivered out into the middle of nowhere costs an arm and a leg. That lovely double cab bakkie / cruiser that picks you up and never misses a beat costs a great deal to maintain as it spends most of it's life bouncing around the bush. Those drinks that you sink every night like it's the last alcohol on the planet also adds up. Of course you wouldn't even think of the thousands of hours spent on emails, attending shows around the planet, planning YOUR safari for you, repairing and maintaining roads, vehicles, fences, chalets and lodges.

The outfitter not only has to run a business but must also provide for his own family as well as the family of all his staff. Maybe he could pay more if he didn't have to double up on staff (thereby creating employment and making sure your every whim is catered for) such as having 2/3 trackers instead of one, 2/3 skinners instead of one, one cook, one cleaner, one guard etc etc... Just because you go out on your 10 day hunt and only see a handful of staff does not mean that that is all there is.

I bet you'd bitch and moan if the outfitter picked you up in a barely serviceable vehicle, if you had to wait for the only tracker in camp to return from another hunting party, if your trophy soiled in the bush because there was only one skinner. Maybe you won't have your clothes washed for a few days because the single cleaning woman has malaria...

Maybe think that running a half decent outfit is much like running a little village where you are the sole bread winner. Maybe then you'd have a better idea on crap salaries / tipping.

 

[Chago]

Europe is amazing. And of course being a first generation Canadian and my roots coming from Croatia. I have gone numerous times and was raised I feel far more Croatian culturally then Canadian. That being said for work I am a VP of global sales and spend 80-100 flights per year and typically around 150 nights in a hotel. At least 30 of those nights per year are in Europe. There are too many amazing things about Europe to list. I have spent enough time there that I have been able to use my fluent Croatian to very quickly learn other eastern European languages. I can easily carry full conversation in Poland, Ukraine and Russia in a professional setting. Mind you I have been to all 3 more times then I can remember. And of course being in Canada I am fluent in French as well. Or I should say french Canadian as it is very different then Parisian french.

All that being said I have nothing against anyone from any country. Unless they ask for it. My problem with Artur is he doesn't take his own advice. He is so quick to pick at the worst of America and the worst of the people. And picks at all of the stereotypes. But then he plays the part of the exact opposite stereotype. The word he used seljaci which truly just translates to farmer or villager. But it's used typically used as a derogatory term used by city folk to insult those from rural areas. Some what like the American word, redneck or along those lines. And using that word just proves to me who I thought you were in all of your other posts.

Based on your writing you are clearly well educated. Someone with that sort of education in your home country tells me you grew up in the upper class. Which is easy to guess as you are in a country that has huge divide between wealthy and poor. Very very little so called middle class. You have over 27% under the poverty line the last I spoke to my rep in the region Askar. So in other words an elitist rich kid who was told all his life he is better then others and belittled those "villagers" or seljaci. In North America we call you trust fund babies.

You want to argue the point that African guides should pay a healthy wage so that tipping is not necessary. But why don't you do the same at home? I feel like this comes from your rich kid background. That you feel poor people are not your problem and there employer who pays them next to nothing is not your problem. And tipping these seljaci is just uncomfortable for you... I spent 6 days in Nur-Sultan. And saw the divide myself. I worked with UPMC (american hospital) who came to Kazakhstan and helped you guys build your first proper oncology center. The two pop up covid hospitals you guys built in 14 days and bragged about it. Ya, I supplied a ton of medical devices for you guys. And also worked with AECOM who helped made this feat possible. Ohh also an American company. Kazakhstan was one of the worst healthcare systems on the planet and have finally started making some great changes. But far from perfect. Amazingly keep using American advice on building there healthcare system.

Long story short. Take your stereotypes and shove them up your ... And as others have tried to do with by brining this back to tipping. If you can't part with a few bucks then don't. I will continue to do so. I even tipped in every restaurant in Nur-Sultan. Gonna invade your country as well with my tipping ways. One restaurant at a time.

 

[Artur S]

Of course not. I love Europe. I love its culture, its living history, and even much of its formality. Though I hate driving in Rome and wherever a roundabout may be found. I particularly love its relative ‘smallness.” I do not mean that in anyway but geographically. Here in the States, I may drive 200km to meet someone for lunch. In Europe, I am likely to be in a different country, speaking a different language, and on the other side of momentous historical events. In no other place on the planet is such diversity wedged into such a limited region. I also would suggest that may have some small influence on European multilingual tradition.

Americans are indeed different. We also differ regionally and culturally among ourselves. The vast majority will be lucky to leave the country of their birth once in their lives. They are not exposed to foreign languages early in their lives other than in the classroom and have no opportunity to practice. Picking up those skills later in life is difficult.

We are far less formal than Europeans. That can be perceived as rudeness. Our table manners or odd - what are we doing with that left hand in our lap? We tend to be indifferent about our clothing. We are, or at least were until this new generation became woke, generally proud of our country. The vast majority of us, even those who get around a bit, would much rather live here than anywhere else we have been. Some consider that a form of arrogance, to most of us it feels more like common sense.

Most of us don’t take well to receiving lectures about our perceived faults or lack of sophistication or lack of worldliness. There is an independent streak that is easily triggered and is deeply coded into our DNA. I should note that too is apparently changing as Third World immigration slowly overwhelms our traditions turning us into obedient chattel. Culturally, I think we will be far less interesting if they are successful.

This thread is supposed to be about tipping. I regret that it devolved into one of these cultural shouting matches. If I and my countrymen seem arrogant to @Artur S because we do not subscribe to his cultural norms with regard to tipping, then that is unfortunate. But those norms are not mine and have no bearing on my considerations with regard to rewarding service.

Thank you for this thoughtful posting, appreciate it.

 

[gordon kings langley]

I note you have not published my recent response to the above.
Being a sponsored site, clearly you only publish what YOU want to hear.

 

[Red Leg]

I note you have not published my recent response to the above.
Being a sponsored site, clearly you only publish what YOU want to hear.

To whom are you referring?

 

[Hank2211]

You turn away for a few days . . . and look what happens to the tipping thread! It turns into a mud-slinging match . . .

Unbelievable. I think I will turn away for a few more days . . .

PS @gordon kings langley if you posted something and it didn't show up, then there are only a couple of moderators who could have taken it down . . . and they are more patient and permissive than I would be . . .