Time to go long on CRF rifles?

[Hunter-Habib]

This is news to me, that Mayfair also closed down. I wonder where all the EU small gun shops are buying their magnum actions from, to build custom Mausers…

And at 5000$ a piece or more in the white, hardly pennies, why is no one stepping up to build more magnum actions?

Well, there is still:
Waffen Prechtll
FZH
Armeria Concari

Yes... I very recently learnt about Mayfair Engineering closing up business, as well.

 

[mark-hunter]

why is no one stepping up to build more magnum actions?

It could be lack of skilled gunsmiths, know how is lost.

Second, target to eliminate labor from production process, or minimise it.

Modern factory runs on CNC and robot technology, different skill set is necessary.
Modern engineering is focused on design to be economic, productive and adjusted to modern automatized machinery with minimum labor.

On the other hand, origin of m98 was to be designed for maximum reliability of untrained military personnel in war conditions, in the times when work labor was not overly expensive. Basically not a factor to consider.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Montana Rifle Company will eventually make some magnum actions. If you visited their booth at the shows. they had an action on the table. I think he said It will go through some more iterations before production.

The models they sell now are a great value. A lot of rifle for the money. Nice wood, very smooth actions. Hand lapped barrels

One ragged hole

 

[BeeMaa]

Push-feed actions have come a long way from the first big production PF…the R700.

Advancements in manufacturing, better materials and a less expensive process vs CRF has driven the market towards PF. Probably combined with a level of indifference from the buying public.

BTW, the members of AH are a niche group and do not accurately reflect a true cross-section of hunters around the world. Most of my hunting buddies from my home town couldn’t tell the difference between CRF, PF, action length or the advantages/disadvantages of each. They have a gun that can hunt deer, and that’s all they care about.

I’ll probably be roasted on the spit for this, but there are a few modern PF magnum length actions (Blaser R8 is one) that offer the same level of reliability without the need for extensive hand fitting and tuning. However, I’ll also admit that these actions are hardly a cost savings vs a custom CRF.

 

[mark-hunter]

Most of my hunting buddies from my home town couldn’t tell the difference between CRF, PF, action length or the advantages/disadvantages of each. They have a gun that can hunt deer, and that’s all they care about.

ha!
my hunting friends are the same.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Push-feed actions have come a long way from the first big production PF…the R700.

Advancements in manufacturing, better materials and a less expensive process vs CRF has driven the market towards PF. Probably combined with a level of indifference from the buying public.

BTW, the members of AH are a niche group and do not accurately reflect a true cross-section of hunters around the world. Most of my hunting buddies from my home town couldn’t tell the difference between CRF, PF, action length or the advantages/disadvantages of each. They have a gun that can hunt deer, and that’s all they care about.

I’ll probably be roasted on the spit for this, but there are a few modern PF magnum length actions (Blaser R8 is one) that offer the same level of reliability without the need for extensive hand fitting and tuning. However, I’ll also admit that these actions are hardly a cost savings vs a custom CRF.

And if your hunting buddies are like mine, they MIGHT shoot six rounds (more likely three) at a target from the bench before the hunting season only to make sure their scope is still zeroed. They don’t want to waste ammo. LOL. I laugh but that’s probably the norm for many hunters around the world?

 

[gbflyer]

Montana Rifle Company will eventually make some magnum actions. If you visited their booth at the shows. they had an action on the table. I think he said It will go through some more iterations before production.

The models they sell now are a great value. A lot of rifle for the money. Nice wood, very smooth actions. Hand lapped barrels

One ragged hole

There’s one being tested on another forum. Real testing, not gun writer testing. MRC sent it out with some somewhat embarrassing problems that were corrected by the tester. Nothing was hidden from the public. They have been transparent during the process. I am firmly in their corner and wishing them the very best, even though I find that integral pic rail distasteful.

 

[mark-hunter]

I laugh but that’s probably the norm for many hunters around the world?

I confirm, from across the pond.

 

[VertigoBE]

It could be lack of skilled gunsmiths, know how is lost.

Second, target to eliminate labor from production process, or minimise it.

Modern factory runs on CNC and robot technology, different skill set is necessary.
Modern engineering is focused on design to be economic, productive and adjusted to modern automatized machinery with minimum labor.

On the other hand, origin of m98 was to be designed for maximum reliability of untrained military personnel in war conditions, in the times when work labor was not overly expensive. Basically not a factor to consider.

This is not a lack-of-skilled-gun-smiths-problem in my opinion. (Although that is also a problem) rather this is a not-enough-experienced-machinists/compagnies-with-gun-manufacturing-licenses-problem.

An action in the white still needs a lot of finishing by a competent gun smith. (Although I suspect with precision manufacturing techniques such as CNC, much less now than in times gone by). But no one seems to be producing these high value pieces in quantity any more.

 

[Fatback]

I’ve got to admit that until a couple of years ago I never gave the CRF vs PF difference much thought. Since hunting Cape buffalo a few years ago and really looking into it I decided I wanted to get CRF rifles. Also being a lefty reduces available options. I’ve been diligent in my searching and have spent more money than I care to admit but I’ve been able to put together the following battery.

CZ 550s in 375 H&H and 404 Jeffery (a re-barrled 375)

Winchester M70s in 416 Rem (a re-barrled 375), 375 H&H, 300 Win, 30-06 and 270 Win

Ruger M77 Mark IIs in 9.3x62, 35 Whelen, 30-06 and 25-06. The 9.3 and 35 Whelen are re-barreled 30-06s. Some of these are still with my gunsmith waiting to get finished.

I think I am covered for any hunting I ever want to do anywhere on the planet with this line up. Obviously quite a bit of overlap with this collection but it’s better to have them and not need them than the other way around, at least that is what I’ve told myself. I do believe as many have already stated, CRF rifles are not going to become easier to find, especially left handed varieties, going forward so hopefully these won’t loose value but I didn’t by them to have an investment. I really enjoy shooting them and hunting with them and that has value to me at least.

 

[mark-hunter]

This is not a lack-of-skilled-gun-smiths-problem in my opinion. (Although that is also a problem) rather this is a not-enough-experienced-machinists/compagnies-with-gun-manufacturing-licenses-problem.

An action in the white still needs a lot of finishing by a competent gun smith. (Although I suspect with precision manufacturing techniques such as CNC, much less now than in times gone by). But no one seems to be producing these high value pieces in quantity any more.

On a first part, lets say we are on same track.

On second part, in these discussions we generally talk about large companies, their products, and their marketing policies. But luckily there is still number of small workshops doing proper classic crf rifles. (I am not speaking of London elite gunshops)
With its tradition, I am sure they can be still found in Belgium, Austria, Slovenia.
In Croatia, no more. Finito.

 

[khesser]

While not cheap the Mausingfield action from American Rifle Company is an excellent option. Long Rifles Inc and Blue Mountain Precision will build a custom DG rifle using the Mausingfield action. I have a rifle built by Long Rifles Inc using the Mausingfield action and have used it to kill bears in Alaska. The action is good enough that American Rifle Company is rebranded and used by some OEMs.

 

[Aaron N]

I keep hearing cost as the main reason CRF actions are being phased out. How much more can a ten dollar piece of spring steel and an extra cut to accommodate it cost? Same with a magnum action, does an extra 2.2 inches increase cost significantly?

 

[BeeMaa]

I keep hearing cost as the main reason CRF actions are being phased out. How much more can a ten dollar piece of spring steel and an extra cut to accommodate it cost? Same with a magnum action, does an extra 2.2 inches increase cost significantly?

Multiplied across the numbers that a major manufacturer puts out…yes. Or they wouldn’t be going to PF’s

 

[Aaron N]

Multiplied across the numbers that a major manufacturer puts out…yes. Or they wouldn’t be going to PF’s

Or is it that the average consumer just doesn’t care. A new model 70 doesn’t really cost all that much, and how much of that price tag is paying for the Model 70 name itself.

There’s no reason someone can’t put out a CRF action in the white for a reasonable price, but if the market isn’t there, then it’s not worth the while.

 

[mdwest]

Or is it that the average consumer just doesn’t care.

^^ this ^^

Your typical “range” shooter, deer hunter, precision shooter, etc could care less about the benefits that CRF provide in a DG hunt scenario…

They want accuracy, reliability (under the conditions they are typically exposed to) and affordability..

The demand dictates the supply… manufacturers are going to build what they can sell..

And the number of deer, pig, elk, PG, etc hunters far outweigh the number of DG hunters in the world… add in all of the “precision” shooters and guys that just like poking holes in paper at the range or banging steel gongs at 1000 meters… and the numbers aren’t even close…

As long as there’s some measure of demand for CRF someone will produce one…

But that demand will never equal the demand for push feed…

No different than there will always be more 308 options than 375 options in the US and Europe (where the overarching majority of sporting rifles are sold worldwide)… the demand for 375 and larger is limited.. therefore production and options will be limited…

 

[khesser]

I keep hearing cost as the main reason CRF actions are being phased out. How much more can a ten dollar piece of spring steel and an extra cut to accommodate it cost? Same with a magnum action, does an extra 2.2 inches increase cost significantly?

Various things factor into the cost of an action. Material is one but it’s not as big a factor as you would think. Machining time and complexity is the largest driving factor and why you see a big swing in prices when looking at custom actions. An action can be made relatively cheap if it doesn’t have an integrated recoil lug and rail and that’s largely why the R700 action became so popular. As you add things like an integrated rail and recoil lug the costs go up because of the extra machining. Want CRF now your bolt goes from something relatively simple to one that now has moving parts on it. And what it all comes down to is there is a larger demand for inexpensive and reliable rifles than an absolute bullet proof CRF action that can cost 2 to 3 times what some rifles cost.

 

[CoElkHunter]

What I'm seeing HERE in the gun shops are 90% PF rifles with many having adjustable synthetic stocks (many carbon fiber), a lot of carbon wrapped longer barrels with brakes. I guess those features are what the younger shooters want in a lighter weight long distance shooting rifle? And every other rifle is either chambered in a Creedmoor or PRC. They seem to carry a handful of Winchester and Ruger CRF rifles but not many and 99% of those have synthetic stocks. The other day I was in a LARGE LGS and I counted 12 rifles with wooden stocks and 6 of those were Mossbergs out of probably 200 rifles. No wait, there was probably another 6 with wood because they were old military Mosin Nagants and AKs. I prefer walnut and blue steel like my mid '90s Browning A Bolt and CZ 550s but I fear those are becoming a glimpse from the past in factory rifles. Sad.

 

[mark-hunter]

No different than there will always be more 308 options than 375 options in the US and Europe (where the overarching majority of sporting rifles are sold worldwide)… the demand for 375 and larger is limited.. therefore production and options will be limited…

I just sincerely hope this will not apply for ammunition factories and their products. it already is not so simple to find quality DG ammo, in 375 and above.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

And if your hunting buddies are like mine, they MIGHT shoot six rounds (more likely three) at a target from the bench before the hunting season only to make sure their scope is still zeroed. They don’t want to waste ammo. LOL. I laugh but that’s probably the norm for many hunters around the world?

It was the norm for this hunter for more than fifty years. Most working stiffs with a family to look after don't have the time or money to play games at the range. I hunted hard but out of respect for my very respectful and never complaining dearly departed wife. I was careful to avoid wasting money on fancy or extra guns or shooting $$$ through paper at the range during the off season. Didn't want to give her a reason to complain.

I would never buy a new rifle ... or a new vehicle. Too wasteful.