This has already been addressed, but... .458 Win Mag as a Dangerous 5 rifle?

[sestoppelman]

The main point is this. If a good bullet is driven by a good powder that was ignited properly, it will perform as it should irrespective of the case's headstamp.

 

[spike.t]

Spike.t

I just went to the Kynoch website and they show 458 win mag ammo. They may not have had it back in the 60's though.

david little owns kynamco and has the the rights to the use of the kynoch name. he started loading a lot of the old british calibres including some obscure ones and gave them a new lease of life. he does load a few "new" ones as well, but you are basically talking about two different companies, with the old kynoch then owned by imperial metal industries stopping loading sporting ammunition by the late 1960`s to early 1970. which is why winchester developed the .458 to replicate the performance of the .450/.470 nitro cartridges, along with the fact that americans were starting to go hunting in africa in increasing numbers and needed a reasonably priced big bore rifle/cartridge combo . unfortunately with the problems with the powder this didnt happen and led to the bad early reputation of this cartridge, but with new powder developments the problems were cured.

 

[Wheels]

david little owns kynamco and has the the rights to the use of the kynoch name. he started loading a lot of the old british calibres including some obscure ones and gave them a new lease of life. he does load a few "new" ones as well, but you are basically talking about two different companies, with the old kynoch then owned by imperial metal industries stopping loading sporting ammunition by the late 1960`s to early 1970. which is why winchester developed the .458 to replicate the performance of the .450/.470 nitro cartridges, along with the fact that americans were starting to go hunting in africa in increasing numbers and needed a reasonably priced big bore rifle/cartridge combo . unfortunately with the problems with the powder this didnt happen and led to the bad early reputation of this cartridge, but with new powder developments the problems were cured.

Thanks for the education. I wasn't aware of all this. I don't think I have seen any Kynoch ammo since 1970......now I know why.

 

[enysse]

If compare the .416 Rigby with 400gr. DGX bullets at 2415 fps/5180 ft-lbs to the .458 Win with 500 gr. DGX bullets at 2140 fps/ 5084 ft-lbs there is not much difference.

 

[spike.t]

Thanks for the education. I wasn't aware of all this. I don't think I have seen any Kynoch ammo since 1970......now I know why.

if you look on the kynoch/kynamco website it shows you the distributors round the world, so if you need some you should be able to find it.

 

[ikeda]

Doubles, Loads & the .458
This is an excellent article that explains the problems the .458 HAD and sets the record straight about all the old rumors surrounding the .458.
It is very interesting and informative.

 

[Norwegianwoods]

The main point is this. If a good bullet is driven by a good powder that was ignited properly, it will perform as it should irrespective of the case's headstamp.

Totally agree.
The bullets I talked about in my other post was soft points.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Re-visiting an old thread: Regaring the use of a .458 Win Mag caliber as a dangerous game rifle...do yourself a favor and purchase a book by the name of : The Hunting Imperative...if ever there was a reason bad mouthing the ,458 Win Mag being irrasionale/unfounded ..this book will surly provide facts..Richard Harland culled/shot/hunt /killed more elephants/buffalo/plains game than any man ever had..and he did this with a .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer....you will find this book at Safari Press...http://www.safaripress.com/The-Hunting-Imperative/productinfo/HARLAND99Z/

 

[spike.t]

funnily enough i read this a few weeks ago after finding a copy in the office here (well there is a desk and a few shelves ), well worth buying as it is very good reading

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Spike-t , this is one of the best books..if not the best book I ever read...

 

[spike.t]

yup its very good, and he was lucky to be the right age, at the right time, in the right place

 

[CTDolan]

Check the reloading manuals. Due to modern powders the 458 Win Mag is more than it once was. 2150 fps is a given, which makes it the equal of the storied cartridges of old.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Yes, Richard Harland was the youngest honorary ranger at seventeen years of age..

 

[rookhawk]

I don't care for the .458 because well...because. It gets put into less than gorgeous rifles these days and it had a rough start in life due to some quality control issues.

That being said, the bullets and powders are so good today it will surely perform just fine on everything under the sun. I bet 95% of all DG PHs in Africa carry a .458. Name another rifle capable of backing/stopping DG that can be had for <$1000. (Model 70s and FNs seem their go-to options)

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Check the reloading manuals. Due to modern powders the 458 Win Mag is more than it once was. 2150 fps is a given, which makes it the equal of the storied cartridges of old.

Yes , you are correct...Richard Harland re-load his own ammo, maybe one reason why he never experienced the early difficulties related to the .458 Win Mag loads that gave the .458 Win Mag such a bad reputation.. As pointed out by previous discussions, it really is not relevant or sensible to even mention/hang a bad reputation around the .458 Win Mag`s neck..I sincerely question any person`s motives who still want to convert a .458 Win Mag to a .458 Lott....with today`s premium bullets and excellent powders I really do not believe it is needed anymore..and very few hunters is able to handle a .458 Lott`s recoil today..since you need to up the loads ...no sense in shooting a .458 Lott with .458 Win Mag velocities at all..it just do not make sense at all..... A .458 Win Mag loads at max with a 500 gn bullets will only be handled comfortable by a very few PH and seasoned hunters...who even might struggle to shoot accurate groups with such a heavy load..now think what a .458 Lott will do to a normal/one/twice a year hunter when you load it to the max to make sure the elephant fall when you shoot it or the buffalo stop in it tracks when you use a full load .458 Lott load...this is a great recipe for embedding a permanent "flinch" in your shooting stance...

 

[cal pappas]

How could a 500-grain bullet at 2000-2100 fps NOT be adequate for the big 5 and hippo?
Cal

 

[cal pappas]

Me thinks most bad press is from those who want to blame the cartridge for their poor shooting. I say that because I've been reading negative things about the .458 for two or three decades but, at the same time, read excellent reports of the .450 3 1/4" nitro express; both having the same ballistics.
Cal

 

[CAustin]

I can't imagine that under today's circumstances why this wouldn't be a good rifle round to use on DG. Should knock down most anything.

 

[cal pappas]

Years ago I had a 1990s Model 70 (CRF) and I loaded 300 and 400-grain bullets for smaller game and found it a very versatile cartridge. I liked it enough that I bought a similar rifle a year ago but, alas, it has only one barrel and I don't shoot single barrel rifles an longer, so it is up for sale. My opinion is a .458 can be an all around rifle with proper bullets and hand loading--from deer to elephant.
Cal

 

[CTDolan]

In the realm of dangerous game rifles, if you give someone a reason (excuse, really) to think they need something bigger, they'll be all over it (something I've been guilty of myself, in my younger days). If you want the power and can handle it, fine, but beyond 500 grains at 2,100 fps, it ain't no need.

My go-to rifle? A Ruger Guide Gun in .416 Ruger. It provides 400 grains at 2,250 fps, with only 20 inches of barrel. Handy as all get-out, I refer to it as my modern day, poor man's 450/400. Really, when you get right down to it, what more could one need?