The Turkish M1887 Mauser (black powder)

[Willie Barnard]

Bruce, you are right about the dumping of instantly obsolete rifles on the Boer republics.
The 4 years between the Jameson raid and the 2nd Anglo boer war was a time of hectic small arms purchases by the 2 Boer republics. The Raid opened their eyes to how woefully unprepared they were for a war against Britain.
It was also a time of unprecedented small arms development. Many a rifle contract was cancelled before delivery because the design had been overshadowed by something new. That is how some Guedes rifles were delivered to the Boers.
(Ordered and cancelled by Portugal.) They were obsolete before they touched the shores of Africa.

 

[Willie Barnard]

an interesting path to tread gert.
at the end of the black powder erta transitioning into smokeless, there were also a number of technological advancements in firearms, primarily repeaters.
many countries were trying to keep up with this, but it was so fast that many got caught half way.
they cancelled orders with the likes of mauser and steyr because they simply had to to be competitive in war.
many of these manufactured but unwanted rifles went to the south of africa and were stamped with ZAR.
their purchasers were primarily farming economies with little industry yet developed.
the rifles servred well for many purposes, and many were used against the british, along with the famous 7x57 mauser.
for the canny pioneering settlers they had good cheap working rifles that could compete with all but the major powers.
speaking of canny i saw some 7x57 rounds with very short necks.
they were loaded in a south african factory during the boer war, and the necks were shortened to save raw material.
very interesting about your black powder.
here in oz i use swiss 1.0 and 1.5, and wano p.
the wano f is not as good as the p.
good luck with learning to load for the 11mm mauser.
bruce.

However the story of the short 7 mm cartridges is well researched, they were not shortened to save raw material. Those 3 mm would make no practical difference.
The 7x54 cartridges were made from 7.65x53 Argentine cases, prepared for Argentina,, and no longer needed because Argentina also opted to change to the 7x57. besides the urgency of the Boer orders had DWM in Germany running short of 7x57 brass anyway.
They necked them down to 7 mm, and loaded them for the boers. The headstamp was FyA (Fusil y Amatrelladora).
The boers dubbed them "kortnekke" (literally short necks)
Though most of them functioned well, there were reports of throat erosion in the Boer mausers, and a few rumours of blown up rifles. (Though war conditions makes verification impossible.)

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Willie, Bruce I have to make a correction, the 1871/84 Mauser I am getting are made by Spandau company...Turkish Mausers , Mausers made by a Spandau German company \..when receiving the Mausers I will upload a lot of photos.. Here are a photo of the two Spandau Turkish 1871/84 Mausers....

 

[bruce moulds]

willie, thank you for the explaination regarding the 7x57 short necks.
another piece in the jigsaw.
gert,
another way to establish patch width is to do 3 wraps of paper on the bullet.
cut into the bullet with a razor blade.
when unwrapped you can measure between cuts for 2 wraps.
this will give the right sized patch for dry wrapping.
if you cut your template for that length, it will be too long for wet wrapping, as the paper stretches more when wet.
you can measure the overlap, and remove that much from the template as required.
he flat of an angle grinder disc will remove metal neatly.
re patch lube, i have found sheep tallow made from fat around the kidneys to be good.
oils will make the patch come loose.
tallow also helps soften black powder fouling a little.
in my own patching i have always tried to make paper thickness less than rifling depth.
my bullets have always been patched to bore diameter as opposed to groove diameter.
they bump up into the rifling with black powder, but not with smokeless.some chambers work better this way, while others (with freebore) are suited to groove diameter.
bruce.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

willie, thank you for the explaination regarding the 7x57 short necks.
another piece in the jigsaw.
gert,
another way to establish patch width is to do 3 wraps of paper on the bullet.
cut into the bullet with a razor blade.
when unwrapped you can measure between cuts for 2 wraps.
this will give the right sized patch for dry wrapping.
if you cut your template for that length, it will be too long for wet wrapping, as the paper stretches more when wet.
you can measure the overlap, and remove that much from the template as required.
he flat of an angle grinder disc will remove metal neatly.
re patch lube, i have found sheep tallow made from fat around the kidneys to be good.
oils will make the patch come loose.
tallow also helps soften black powder fouling a little.
in my own patching i have always tried to make paper thickness less than rifling depth.
my bullets have always been patched to bore diameter as opposed to groove diameter.
they bump up into the rifling with black powder, but not with smokeless.some chambers work better this way, while others (with freebore) are suited to groove diameter.
bruce.

Bruce, we are in need of an Australian black powder hunter on our 1885 Era Black powder hunt in 2020, will you join us please? It seems you have much knowledge to share around our camp fire..

 

[bruce moulds]

gert,
would i love that!!!!!!!!!!
whether i come or not, i am most happy to share black powder experience for what it is worth.
i have no experience with bottleneck cases, only straight ones.
the main difference seems to be that little or no powder compression works best in bottlenecks.
and of course no part of the bullet should go below the case neck.
a challenge with black powder in repeaters is to manage fouling such that repeat shots will both chamber, shoot straight, and not lead the bore.
i feel that i would learn more from you guys than i could offer you.
bruce.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

You are most welcome Bruce...