The Turkish M1887 Mauser (black powder)

[Gert Odendaal]

Good day Members

Do anyone of you have a Turkish M1887 Mauser? Please tell me more about this rifle and if possible upload some pictures please? I am on the lookout for such a rifle and if possible in the market for such a rifle to use in our 1880 era black powder rifle at Weltevreden farm in Limpopo this year. My first idea was to use a Martini Henry , but I would rather use a Turkish M1887 Mauser id I can get one...

Thank you.

Gert

 

[flatwater bill]

Gert............good luck with your search. I have never even seen a Model 87 at a gunshow. It would be quite a novelty item............a lot more rare than the Martini Henry....of which there are a lot floating around in Africa and the States. It was tough to improve upon the M-H with black powder. And I never enjoyed cleaning a black powder gun unless easily done.... with no magazine or magazine tubes full of detritus. The Turks, of course, like everyone else ordering from Germany in late 1880's cancelled their order early when the Kraut Model 88 made them all obsolete. Thus, they are rare..............I will keep on the lookout for one............................FWB

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Flatwater Bill, thank you kindly I really appreciate the reply, it always is nice when members jump in to assist another member to get hold of an item he wants..I have been looking at the u-tube videos..there are surprisingly a lot of these rifle shot in the videos.. I will even take a Portugese Kopacheck rifle..here is a video showing how accurate this rifle shoots at 1000 meters.

Thank you again for the reply.

Regards

Gert

 

[flatwater bill]

Thanks Gert...........that is a good video. I had no idea it would be as effective as it is. Makes me want to hunt impala and warthog with it..................FWB

 

[Gert Odendaal]

My sentiments exactly, especially on the 1880 Great black powder hunt on Weltevreden farm where we do the re-enactment hunt every year...that is why I need one...

 

[flatwater bill]

Sounds like a fun time...............let me know if you need an 1874 Sharps. When I get an invitation, I will bring either Selena Gomez or Shakira.....probably........have a great hunt.....................FW Bill

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Bill, the hunt commence from the 1 May to 8 May..no day fees, black powder only ( last two days you are allowed to use smokeless hunting rifles shooting for your own account.) You hunt on your own, we divide the costs /meat of all animals shot between all who hunts...if you shoot a trophy animal normal animal price counts..no trophy costs..we live of the veld/stay in the veld, no modern items only modern item is my camera ....if you want more info..please send me an e-mail: godendaal@hotmail.com
Except this as an invitation...

 

[flatwater bill]

Gert..........email on the way......................................Bill

 

[CAustin]

Black powder anywhere is great fun! Hope you find the gun you want!

 

[Gert Odendaal]

CAustin, especially this type of re-enactment hunt..it really is an occasion where we learn a lot about how the old people done it one hundred years ago..

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Update:
Flatwater Bill, here is a video about the specific black powder Mauser rifle I need to purchase..please, if you come across such a rifle let me know...

 

[bruce moulds]

gert,
the m87 turkish mauser might be hard to find.
it was a modified 71/84 for the turkish govt. it fired a 284 gn bullet at about 1750 fps not sure if paperpatched or grease groove.
the turkish govt scrapped most of them when they went smokeless.
there are apparently more peabodies around in this calibre than mausers.
the 71/84 fired the 11x60 cartridge, also black powder.
338 gn paper patched at 1425 fps.
this cartridge might be more africa correct than the turkish round.
it might also be more time correct for you hunt.
the turkish round might relate in power to a high speed 38/55, while the 11mm is more powerful.
neither bullet from these cartridges would be called a long range bullet for other than plunging fire.
the 8mm guedes is an interesting cartridge.
it started life a a black powder round, like the 303 brit.
it had a solid pellet of propellent, giving a 247 jacketed bullet about 1700 fps.
similar to the 303 it transitioned on to smokeless.
bruce.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

gert,
the m87 turkish mauser might be hard to find.
it was a modified 71/84 for the turkish govt. it fired a 284 gn bullet at about 1750 fps not sure if paperpatched or grease groove.
the turkish govt scrapped most of them when they went smokeless.
there are apparently more peabodies around in this calibre than mausers.
the 71/84 fired the 11x60 cartridge, also black powder.
338 gn paper patched at 1425 fps.
this cartridge might be more africa correct than the turkish round.
it might also be more time correct for you hunt.
the turkish round might relate in power to a high speed 38/55, while the 11mm is more powerful.
neither bullet from these cartridges would be called a long range bullet for other than plunging fire.
the 8mm guedes is an interesting cartridge.
it started life a a black powder round, like the 303 brit.
it had a solid pellet of propellent, giving a 247 jacketed bullet about 1700 fps.
similar to the 303 it transitioned on to smokeless.
bruce.

Bruce, my sincere appreciation for this information, I am learning a lot bout these old calibers. It really is a joy to shoot them..

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Bruce in the meantime I was extremely fortunate to get hold of the 11mm Mauser , this rifle is in good condition , I will be hunting with it on the black powder hunt..

 

[bruce moulds]

gert,
the 11mm mauser has a rich history in africa.
let us know how it performs.
with it paper patched bullet i suspect it used a grease wad under the bullet in order to get repeating shots, but do not know for sure.
what kind of powder are you using?
bruce.

 

[bruce moulds]

in its day, the 11mm mauser was the quintessential farmers gun, to be replaced later by the 9.3x62.
bruce.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

gert,
the 11mm mauser has a rich history in africa.
let us know how it performs.
with it paper patched bullet i suspect it used a grease wad under the bullet in order to get repeating shots, but do not know for sure.
what kind of powder are you using?
bruce.

Bruce, thank you, yes I will be using ZAR Black powder , made by my good friend Johan Greyling, it is of the highest quality type of black powder and compare even better than other commercial black powders from industrial companies. Its test results is that is a finer quality than the WANO Black powder, and it compares favorably with the Swiss black powder. Johan is manufacturing for our black powder hunts, and for local black powder hunters. There is no other Black powder manufacturer in South Africa that cater for our black powder hunters .
I will reload shortly for the 11mm Mauser and give some feedback to you.

I have acquired two beautiful original , collector`s 1871/84 Mausers with the assistance of a great friend and member here on the forum, as well as another great friend and forum member who will bring the two 1871/84 Mausers to South Africa when he come hunting again....

 

[bruce moulds]

an interesting path to tread gert.
at the end of the black powder erta transitioning into smokeless, there were also a number of technological advancements in firearms, primarily repeaters.
many countries were trying to keep up with this, but it was so fast that many got caught half way.
they cancelled orders with the likes of mauser and steyr because they simply had to to be competitive in war.
many of these manufactured but unwanted rifles went to the south of africa and were stamped with ZAR.
their purchasers were primarily farming economies with little industry yet developed.
the rifles servred well for many purposes, and many were used against the british, along with the famous 7x57 mauser.
for the canny pioneering settlers they had good cheap working rifles that could compete with all but the major powers.
speaking of canny i saw some 7x57 rounds with very short necks.
they were loaded in a south african factory during the boer war, and the necks were shortened to save raw material.
very interesting about your black powder.
here in oz i use swiss 1.0 and 1.5, and wano p.
the wano f is not as good as the p.
good luck with learning to load for the 11mm mauser.
bruce.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Yes, Bruce ,it really is great to shoot the old rifles again, I am currently busy paper-patching the 404 Jeffery cast bullets , .423 " bullets I am paper patching to shoot in the 11 mm Mauser.
10.75 X 3.141 X2 -0.16 =67.37 Paper patch that works fine for the bullet...I will commence reloading tomorrow...

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Yes, Bruce ,it really is great to shoot the old rifles again, I am currently busy paper-patching the 404 Jeffery cast bullets , .423 " bullets I am paper patching to shoot in the 11 mm Mauser.
10.75 X 3.141 X2 -0.16 =67.37 Paper patch that works fine for the bullet...I will commence reloading tomorrow...

The formula I am using is as follows: 10.75 ( circumference of the 404 Jeffery /.423 " bullet.
Times it with 3.141 x 2 ...
The onion skin paper is 0.04 thick...x 4= 0.16 , this you detract from the 10.75 x 3.141 x 2 ( two wraps around the bullet = 67.53 - the thickness of the onion skin paper 0.16 = 67, 37 mm ....now you have the measurement of the templet ...this you make a thin sheet metal templet with , use it to cut out all your patches..now you just wet the patch and roll it to cover the bullet...before you shoot it you add a little bit of lube onto the paper patched bullet , seat the bullet , test to see if it fits the chamber ... This is my method, I know there are a lot different methods , so far this one is working for me..will see how it goes when I commence reloading tomorrow...