The Terrace Male Is Dead...

[PeteG]

I don't live near there, but since you do.... DON'T do anything that introduces any money into that village, Plain and Simple.
Get your business associates to do the same. Wages, goods, products, services, No money , That will put everyone in that village working for you to find them and root them out to return to the normalcy of life before this. It's all about cash flow. Don't let your money go into the village. The $$$ stream drying up will open mouths a lot quicker than a simple questioning by some government agency. If you employed any people of the village and are a PH, or operator, or all local businessman or woman that support tourism and think this is a crime against all that live in the area, lay those people of that village off, IF this TRULY is a meaningful cause for you, till the perps are named. Don't buy anything from them , nothing, nor let them use anything that is under your or your friends and their businesses control. If your government truly wishes answers then they can stop the any funding to the village until the killers are found.
Do that and I believe the ones that did it would be named in a very short time.
It all comes down to what would you and fellow business people willing to sacrifice to find them?
It may cost yourself some inconvenience. new people to hire, a change of supply or service and maybe even some $$$.
How much does the government really want to know who did it.
Get your Namibian tourist industry as a group to do the same ......or put $$$$ up or the information.
Money talks, Bu*****t walks ...... away. Not naive.

Dennis, what you are recommending can introduce other problems. This can be compounded if you are in a remote/rural setting.
If you did cut off their income streams, what would stop them from poaching more to get the money they need? You are assuming they will rollover on whoever did this act. Not saying it definitely wont work, just offering another thought on the matter.

This type of action is more than likely only going to earn you enemies within your communities and cause further disruptions.
Especially when you consider that people will likely cut whatever allegiances they had with your ranch/business/home. This can be just as damaging to the rancher/businesses/homes in the area.

It would be very hard to convince the gov to cut off spending/support to its citizens, that is one sure fire way of being voted out of power in the next election. there are very few politicians willing to risk that kind of exposure and criticism.

Rewards to the public can work, it has worked for us in the past but it is not foolproof, sometimes we get random nonsense in the hopes of someone getting paid... i guess they were thinking we just throw cash around to any old fool that rocks up with a half coherent sentence trying to implicate the neighbour who has been "enjoying" with his wife!
The most successful method for us has been informants within villages, even within the Wildlife Officers themselves.

 

[spike.t]

Dennis what pete said. also we give money to different tribal councils whose areas are adjacent to our place and assist when they ask for things, but this must be a 2 way relationship and we expect info on potential poachers/ poaching etc . if there has been a poaching incident and there is no info forthcoming then we suspend our payments to the council whose area the incident was nearest. now according to you this should get them to come up with the info we need, and some times it does but they also get very unhappy because we removed the funding, and some think that we are being unfair by doing this, remember mr logic isnt too well known in africa....... on the other hand one of the areas has not been willing to assist us over the years and we are now terminating for good the payments and any assistance we would have given, so applying "economic sanctions" doesnt always work when dealing with villagers in remote areas.

 

[harden]

I understand your points, you know the culture, yes, more than I do.

Dennis, what you are recommending can introduce other problems. This can be compounded if you are in a remote/rural setting.
If you did cut off their income streams, what would stop them from poaching more to get the money they need? You are assuming they will rollover on whoever did this act. Not saying it definitely wont work, just offering another thought on the matter.

I don't believe this would be long term wait for info on this and the poaching would be something that they would start slowly and not the next day.

This type of action is more than likely only going to earn you enemies within your communities and cause further disruptions.
Especially when you consider that people will likely cut whatever allegiances they had with your ranch/business/home. This can be just as damaging to the rancher/businesses/homes in the area.

Yes I agree, but this is where your interest and morality comes to light. It's great to say you care but what are you willing to sacrifice for what you believe and stand for.

It would be very hard to convince the gov to cut off spending/support to its citizens, that is one sure fire way of being voted out of power in the next election. there are very few politicians willing to risk that kind of exposure and criticism.

True again, I agree just like above the politician is willing to only so much till it effect him. It's again doing and saying a great number of words about the distain for such actions but only if it doesn't mess with his bottom line. His job.

Rewards to the public can work, it has worked for us in the past but it is not foolproof, sometimes we get random nonsense in the hopes of someone getting paid... i guess they were thinking we just throw cash around to any old fool that rocks up with a half coherent sentence trying to implicate the neighbour who has been "enjoying" with his wife!

Rewards are offered many times, all the time. It's part of the process and not saying it's foolproof. Nothing ever is my post was about what people are willing to stand up for even if it costs them personally. That's what character is made off.
Maybe his wife is charging him and he needs to cash...LOL I had to go there..

The most successful method for us has been informants within villages, even within the Wildlife Officers themselves.

I'm glad you have these in place, any of the local employees of that village are PH employed are I'm sure are your first line of information.

Spike I am glad to hear you will be cutting off the funds where your efforts have not been embraced in that one area. You say your now going to do this. Kudos' to you, I think your right. Let's see when the money stops how they feel it may just work. You can then use that money to help increase your anti poaching efforts in that same area.

 

[PeteG]

Dennis,
i did try quote and answer... but to no avail, so i will keep it short and simple.

you definitely have some valid points and there is a lot to be said for putting the screws economically to the people in the surrounding area's. Just have to find the best method for each location and group.
some of the conservation groups we have dealt with encourage education and co operation with the people, others press for policing and heavy anti poaching patrols. different strokes for different folks i suppose at the end of the day.

still hope they find the people responsible... I'm sure Doc will be smiling when they do!!

 

[BRICKBURN]

That Google Earth image of the "Village". It is pretty well completely displayed.
A very loose association of shacks and very small Kraals.
I think the local currency is a goat...

 

[Sable123]

Garth Owen-Smith was one of the first to try and conserve the Kaokoveld region of Namibia, not far from this incident. He is also the author of An Arid Eden and he tried to implement conservation of the area through locals not by gaining economic salvation from the wildlife but by saving them because of their importance in the environment. In the early seventies he was the first to conduct an aerial game count of the region and found the animal populations within the hunting conservancies (no fences) were considerably higher than those outside the hunting areas. With this he quickly realised that without local benefit, there will be no conservation. Now Iam not saying open it all up to hunting, but the question should not be WHO killed that lion (although I wouldn't mind seeing the guilty party punished for it) but WHY had they killed? Local villages often have their own means of justice and retribution, by means we will never comprehend but what often seems logical to us is not often the easiest means.

 

[enysse]

All it takes is one lion story and the USA media plays it into shutting down all lion hunting. "Because of coarse if you shut down hunting", you preserve and enhance the wildlife. That's how they closed elephant imports, poisoning in Zimbabwe, "Preserve and Protect".

 

[harden]

Enysse, You are precisely correct. This WILL play to the anti's stop lion hunting in a big way.
Poachers and Hunters to them are the same.
Sable 123 African Culture killed this lion and this is what conservationist hunters are trying to fight by education.
Tho' most if the time it's similar to talking to rocks.