The stuff you really wanted

[Royal27]

Oh, and ain't it grand to derail a thread like this?

Since pics haven't been added it can't be considered derailing.

 

[Velo Dog]

Velo Dog,
I happen to find this bit of conversation enlightening, especially with first hand statements from someone who has "been there, done that". I will just mention an observation from the fellows at my job that test ammo for a living. To prevent "extreme bruising" from testing ammo in a .460 they used a 5lb. bag of lead shot for a recoil pad. I have no desire to even try that once. Once again, why I want a 450/400, if you cant make a quick second shot, why have a double?
I find your comments on the handling of your Heym very interesting, sine it seems to be all a double should be. Please keep us updated.
Best Regards,
30winmag

Thank you for that 30winmag,

I have used the bag of bird shot trick but I still have not had the desire to shoot a .460 Weatherby.
The memory of that underweight/too short barreled .500 NE was all the beating I could ever want.
My 9.9 lb Heym .458 kicks like Satan but I can fire it accurately for a half dozen rounds before I have to quit for the day (for the week, hahaa).

When I bought it, if it had given me any fits, I had planned to then save up and have Heym or Champlin convert it to .450 NE.
However, so far, it is shooting/ejecting well.
If it runs amok, I plan to revisit that plan.

Perhaps when I get my ducks in a row, I can start a thread about the "Old" Heym, in the Double Rifle Section or Over .375 Section of this Forum, and quit stealing this thread.

Out,
Velo Dog

 

[Velo Dog]

Velo Dog, you never have to apologize on AH for rambling. It keeps things interesting sharing experiences and knowledge. It's what makes AH a great place! I personally find your posts interesting and thought out.

Thanks for that.
I find your posts interesting as well.

 

[Norwegianwoods]

After good boots, gun or bow, then good binos is a must.
I have a zeiss Victory 7x42 that I am very happy with, but I wished I had binos with more power last time I hunted in South Africa.
Before my next African hunt, I will buy the Zeiss Conquest HD 10x32. The 10x42 would be nice too, but I want to keep the weight down.

One of the small and cheap things that I have bought that I am extremely happy with, is a harness for the binos.
I consider it as a must have item.
I have one from Leupold and it didn't cost much.

I always travel very light as I really don't think I need much when I go hunting. Specially when hunting with a gun.

I always have some light cloths I can use as hunting cloths in my carry on luggage. And I also always have my binos with harness there too.
I also either wear my hunting boots or have them in my carry on luggage when I travel.
I can always borrow/rent a gun from the outfitter.
That way, I can always go hunting from day one even if my main luggage is lost.

When I go with my bow, I bring a few more things to tinker with my bow if needed.
Good thing I did that last year in Eastern Cape, as my drop away rest malfunctioned for me and I needed to fix and adjust it during my stay.

 

[30winmag]

Thank you for that 30winmag,

I have used the bag of bird shot trick but I still have not had the desire to shoot a .460 Weatherby.
The memory of that underweight/too short barreled .500 NE was all the beating I could ever want.
My 9.9 lb Heym .458 kicks like Satan but I can fire it accurately for a half dozen rounds before I have to quit for the day (for the week, hahaa).

When I bought it, if it had given me any fits, I had planned to then save up and have Heym or Champlin convert it to .450 NE.
However, so far, it is shooting/ejecting well.
If it runs amok, I plan to revisit that plan.

Perhaps when I get my ducks in a row, I can start a thread about the "Old" Heym, in the Double Rifle Section or Over .375 Section of this Forum, and quit stealing this thread.

Out,
Velo Dog

Velo Dog,

Don't consider it stealing a thread, consider it sharing your experience with newbie me and everyone else who stops by. Feel free to comment anytime!
One of the best quotes from literature concerning a .460 Weatherby was by Capstick, after having a client fire three rounds from one at a buffalo he commented "It was hard to tell who was taking the worse beating, my client or the buff." As to having a capacity of six from your .458, hopefully it only takes one. I always say if I have to carry more than nine rounds I'd better be hunting something that shoots back!
In a similar vein, what is your opinion of the .450 NE? You have mentioned it several times and it seems to be the red-headed step child compared to the more famous .470.
Best Regards,
30winmag

 

[Velo Dog]

Velo Dog,

Don't consider it stealing a thread, consider it sharing your experience with newbie me and everyone else who stops by. Feel free to comment anytime!
One of the best quotes from literature concerning a .460 Weatherby was by Capstick, after having a client fire three rounds from one at a buffalo he commented "It was hard to tell who was taking the worse beating, my client or the buff." As to having a capacity of six from your .458, hopefully it only takes one. I always say if I have to carry more than nine rounds I'd better be hunting something that shoots back!
In a similar vein, what is your opinion of the .450 NE? You have mentioned it several times and it seems to be the red-headed step child compared to the more famous .470.
Best Regards,
30winmag

Hello again 30winmang,

Unfortunately, I never met Capstick but, I wish that I had.
By reputation he was quite the character.
I repeat myself when I say that the .460 Weatherby is an incredible cartridge for those stalwart characters who can use it without flinching.
Pretty sure I'm not one of them.

Heavy slow recoil from a low pressure, straight or slight taper cartridge and well fitting stock is one thing but heavy fast recoil from a high pressure/abrupt bottle neck cartridge plus weird stock design, is a whole different bird altogether.
In that regard, yes I like the .450 NE very much.
The fact that the .470 NE is more popular is just one of those things.
I guess it started about 100 years ago when England banned all .45 caliber weapons and ammunition in a couple of their Colonial possessions and the .470 became the most available one to use (ammunition and "off the shelf/standard" rifles both), then it sort of just stayed that way (?)

At any rate, I have fired a .450 NE 3.25" straight, in a beautiful Pre-War boxlock double - an Army & Navy - that weighed a bit over 10 lb, not quite 11.
I have also fired a similar .470 (but in poor exterior condition) and the recoil seemed about the same.
In terms of recoil, those types of weapons remind me of firing 1 oz slugs from a typical 12 gauge pump shotgun.
The .450/.470 doubles at about 10.5 to 11.5 lb seem to recoil a bit faster against the shoulder than that but not much.
That .450 was accurate with the owner's reloads and recoil was very tolerable (Hornady brass and 480 gr Woodleighs at about 2125 to 2150 fps).

The "Stuff you really wanted" on safari for me personally could easily be a Westley Richards drop lock , in one caliber or another but, the .450 NE would be an excellent one (easier to find ammunition/brass than the No2 version).
Too bad I'd have to sell my house to get one.

Cheers,
Velo Dog

 

[30winmag]

Norwegianwoods,

The wear your hunting boots advice is very welcome! I was thinking of something easy to get through security, but you are right, it'd be a shame to get there and not have boots! I do like your attitude of pack a light load of essentials and keep them with you. As to the bino harness, some like them some don't. I see myself being in the former, but I'll see. Thanks for the valuable info! Feel free to stop by anytime.
Best regards,
30winmag

 

[30winmag]

Velo Dog,
I too mourn the passing of Capstick, I would have loved to meet the original "I'm going to chuck it all and be a PH" guy who pretty much hunted for everything that moved and fished for everything that swims and also managed to survive stuff that would have killed a platoon of mere mortals.
I heartily agree with you on the straight case/low pressure/large bullet cartridges in a properly weighted and stocked rifle. I am eagerly awaiting my extreme venture into this, a Shiloh Sharps 50/70. I regularly use my 11lb. Hawken with 90-100 grains of powder with patched round balls and have no issues with recoil with a brass buttplate. So the straight wall large bores don't make me very nervous. The description of the kick being similar to a slug is very helpful, been there done that, they kick but not a rattle your teeth way.
As to "the stuff you really wanted" you hit it pretty much dead on. Both in desire and in price. I'd like to give a similar make, possibly a Holland and Holland, in a .475 a try just once. Of course one round would be the cost of a decent night on the town!
Best regards,
30winmag

 

[Velo Dog]

Velo Dog,
I too mourn the passing of Capstick, I would have loved to meet the original "I'm going to chuck it all and be a PH" guy who pretty much hunted for everything that moved and fished for everything that swims and also managed to survive stuff that would have killed a platoon of mere mortals.
I heartily agree with you on the straight case/low pressure/large bullet cartridges in a properly weighted and stocked rifle. I am eagerly awaiting my extreme venture into this, a Shiloh Sharps 50/70. I regularly use my 11lb. Hawken with 90-100 grains of powder with patched round balls and have no issues with recoil with a brass buttplate. So the straight wall large bores don't make me very nervous. The description of the kick being similar to a slug is very helpful, been there done that, they kick but not a rattle your teeth way.
As to "the stuff you really wanted" you hit it pretty much dead on. Both in desire and in price. I'd like to give a similar make, possibly a Holland and Holland, in a .475 a try just once. Of course one round would be the cost of a decent night on the town!
Best regards,
30winmag

30winmag,

Great minds think alike.

If I ever go for N American bison, I will invest in a rolling block 50/70 Gov't. (I very much like rolling block rifles).

That cartridge, in the (pre-.45-70) trapdoor Springfield was the very same that William F. Cody, used to bag a mountain of bison in his day, thereby earning his moniker, "Buffalo Bill".

If the .50/70 was good enough for Buffalo Bill, it is way good enough for me.

(Mooving right along):
Back before I had gray whiskers, Capstick came to Anchorage (my home for 32 years so far) and spoke at an SCI Banquet here but, I was not yet mature enough to realize how attainable Africa really was/is, in those cold/windy/rainy - moose and caribou hunting days.

I fully knew who he was but did not have enough sense to cowboy-up for a ticket and go.

He was a fibber for sure but I loved his books anyway.

Strangely, my favorite PH (Hannes Swanepoel / Mahlahla Game Lodge / Limpopo District South Africa) is very good friends with Brian Smith who, was Capstick's boss in Zambia back in the day and now lives about 20 KM from Hannes' lodge/home.

I've had the gigantic honor and huge pleasure of sharing more than one braai (aka BB-Q) and more than one camp fire with Brian, among other incredible Afrikaners, in my 3 trips to Mahlahla.

Likewise I have visited Brian at his invitation, in his home (he is a rifle nut like me) on his "farm" as South Africans call large tracts of land with a house on it (actually a hunting concession, no "farming" going on there at all).

I was privileged to shoot a bushbuck on Brian's "farm" with my first double rifle (Merkel SxS .375 H&H) about 12 years ago.

Brian is older than me but appears to be only in his 50s (I look every minute of my age and probably more), he's very physically fit, lightening fast sense of humor, etc (typical Scotsman I suppose).

We conspired to fetch him mellow with Scotch on the rocks (Famous Grouse) during one such camp fire sitting / braai - eland tenderloin supper, etc, etc. and he had all of us spellbound with stories of when "Peetah" was working for him as a PH, as well as Zambia stories in general.

Incredible honor to have been there for that.

Blah, blah, blah........well anyway, I am a fool to have shrugged off Capstick's visit to my home town.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[Norwegianwoods]

Velo Dog, I am sure if I could hunt every day of my life, I would look half my age for sure.
I am not even sure if a hunting day spends any of your allotted life span at all.
Every day I don't hunt, I feel older.
And every day of hunting either stops the time or make me feel younger.

It is when I hunt, I really feel like I am living my life as it was meant to be.

 

[Velo Dog]

Velo Dog, I am sure if I could hunt every day of my life, I would look half my age for sure.
I am not even sure if a hunting day spends any of your allotted life span at all.
Every day I don't hunt, I feel older.
And every day of hunting either stops the time or make me feel younger.

It is when I hunt, I really feel like I am living my life as it was meant to be.

I will heartily second that.

 

[30winmag]

30winmag,

Great minds think alike.

If I ever go for N American bison, I will invest in a rolling block 50/70 Gov't. (I very much like rolling block rifles).

That cartridge, in the (pre-.45-70) trapdoor Springfield was the very same that William F. Cody, used to bag a mountain of bison in his day, thereby earning his moniker, "Buffalo Bill".

If the .50/70 was good enough for Buffalo Bill, it is way good enough for me.

(Mooving right along):
Back before I had gray whiskers, Capstick came to Anchorage (my home for 32 years so far) and spoke at an SCI Banquet here but, I was not yet mature enough to realize how attainable Africa really was/is, in those cold/windy/rainy - moose and caribou hunting days.

I fully knew who he was but did not have enough sense to cowboy-up for a ticket and go.

He was a fibber for sure but I loved his books anyway.

Strangely, my favorite PH (Hannes Swanepoel / Mahlahla Game Lodge / Limpopo District South Africa) is very good friends with Brian Smith who, was Capstick's boss in Zambia back in the day and now lives about 20 KM from Hannes' lodge/home.

I've had the gigantic honor and huge pleasure of sharing more than one braai (aka BB-Q) and more than one camp fire with Brian, among other incredible Afrikaners, in my 3 trips to Mahlahla.

Likewise I have visited Brian at his invitation, in his home (he is a rifle nut like me) on his "farm" as South Africans call large tracts of land with a house on it (actually a hunting concession, no "farming" going on there at all).

I was privileged to shoot a bushbuck on Brian's "farm" with my first double rifle (Merkel SxS .375 H&H) about 12 years ago.

Brian is older than me but appears to be only in his 50s (I look every minute of my age and probably more), he's very physically fit, lightening fast sense of humor, etc (typical Scotsman I suppose).

We conspired to fetch him mellow with Scotch on the rocks (Famous Grouse) during one such camp fire sitting / braai - eland tenderloin supper, etc, etc. and he had all of us spellbound with stories of when "Peetah" was working for him as a PH, as well as Zambia stories in general.

Incredible honor to have been there for that.

Blah, blah, blah........well anyway, I am a fool to have shrugged off Capstick's visit to my home town.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

Velo Dog,

It's good to know that there is a fellow devotee of the 50/70 out there. In doing research for what caliber to get, I was sold by the fact that it was in the top three selling calibers for Sharps rifles ever and number two before the advent of the 45/70. Also, there is a picture of an archeological excavation at the site of the battle of adobe walls which is a pile of badly corroded unfired 50/70 rounds. If it was good enough for the guys who did it for a living it is certainly good enough for me! As to liking rolling blocks, you can't go far wrong. I inherited a Remington no.4 rolling block .22 from my dad, who got it from his dad and it was the first rifle I ever fired. It's into it's third century and still shoots straight there is something to be said for that.
I am going on a bison hunt on one of the better regarded ranches that have huntable herds. After doing some research and asking around in the forums on the Shiloh site an outfitter here in Nebraska comes highly regarded. The only method they use to manage the numbers of their herd is hunting, so the buffalo(you know we could have at least spelled it different for ours, two l's or something) tend to be fairly suspicious of people. Unfortunately, being popular means that there is a waiting list, a long one. So, unless someone cancels I'm going to make it to another continent hunting before I get to go hunting 200 miles from my front door.
While you did miss Capstick, I am positively green with envy at the list of folks you got to rub elbows with. I'm sure there were tales never to be forgotten told. Just being in the company of the greats is an amazing experience I bet. Thanks for stopping by, feel free anytime!

Best Regards,
30winmag

 

[Heym 88]

I'm lucky enough to own a Heym double rifle in 450/400. You guys are right, the recoil is very manageable and deadly accurate. Haven't been to Africa yet but my choice in binos were a 8 x 20's small pocket sized Steiner's . Maybe I should rethink that. I was going to put them around my neck and tuck in top pocket.????

 

[Velo Dog]

I'm lucky enough to own a Heym double rifle in 450/400. You guys are right, the recoil is very manageable and deadly accurate. Haven't been to Africa yet but my choice in binos were a 8 x 20's small pocket sized Steiner's . Maybe I should rethink that. I was going to put them around my neck and tuck in top pocket.????

Heym 88,

For my 2nd trip to Africa I took small binoculars and that was about the only regret I had on that trip.

Regards,
Velo Dog.

 

[enysse]

10 x 40mm is the smallest I'd ever go. To me having good binoculars is one the most important parts of the trip. I feel blind and handicapped without a good pair.

 

[Velo Dog]

Velo Dog,

It's good to know that there is a fellow devotee of the 50/70 out there. In doing research for what caliber to get, I was sold by the fact that it was in the top three selling calibers for Sharps rifles ever and number two before the advent of the 45/70. Also, there is a picture of an archeological excavation at the site of the battle of adobe walls which is a pile of badly corroded unfired 50/70 rounds. If it was good enough for the guys who did it for a living it is certainly good enough for me! As to liking rolling blocks, you can't go far wrong. I inherited a Remington no.4 rolling block .22 from my dad, who got it from his dad and it was the first rifle I ever fired. It's into it's third century and still shoots straight there is something to be said for that.
I am going on a bison hunt on one of the better regarded ranches that have huntable herds. After doing some research and asking around in the forums on the Shiloh site an outfitter here in Nebraska comes highly regarded. The only method they use to manage the numbers of their herd is hunting, so the buffalo(you know we could have at least spelled it different for ours, two l's or something) tend to be fairly suspicious of people. Unfortunately, being popular means that there is a waiting list, a long one. So, unless someone cancels I'm going to make it to another continent hunting before I get to go hunting 200 miles from my front door.
While you did miss Capstick, I am positively green with envy at the list of folks you got to rub elbows with. I'm sure there were tales never to be forgotten told. Just being in the company of the greats is an amazing experience I bet. Thanks for stopping by, feel free anytime!

Best Regards,
30winmag

Excellent, and good luck on either or both endeavors.