The spirits, the witches, African Tokoloshe, superstitions, experiences and the tales

[Hunt anything]

This is a great thread!, nothing much to add. Other than one of my trackers in Mozambique wanted the horns off of a reedbuck to give to someone in his village. Wish I would’ve asked a few more questions but he was being a little secretive about it.

 

[ActionBob]

Same with owls....here anyway...

And in parts of the US.... Creepy things.

 

[DLSJR]

This has been a real good thread. I read every single post with keen interest.

 

[mark-hunter]

Lets hope, more to come!

 

[Foxi]

My Father was an MD in rural Tanzania. He had perfectly healthy individuals come into the hospital with a death curse placed on them by witch doctors. In a few days they died. Perfectly healthy people believed they would die and did in less than a week. It was considered better to die at the hospital than the woods since the families wouldn’t let them die in the home since it would then be uninhabitable and have to be burned down. .

My Father came up with an idea for the next time it happened. An individual came in with a death curse. My Father told him he might die but if he took the hospital dawa and his urine turned purple (if I remember correct that was the color) then he would be assured the hospital dawa was greater than the witch doctor dawa and he would live. Sure enough his urine turned purple and he believed enough he lived. Soon everyone wanted the drug that would make the urine turn purple. Didn’t matter if they had syphilis, cancer, burns, broken arm or a panga buried in their head. Didn’t matter that it was a placebo, it was the strongest drug they had ever heard of. Word got out even further afield and people with death curses from witch doctors would come from all over the country, Malawi and Zambia to get the drug that would make their urine turn purple.

The power of belief in the witch doctors is very real with many unexplained happenings actually happening.

a wonderful story Wheels.
You must have become very rich as a result.
How many goats do you now have in your garden ?

 

[Sideshow]

I live it...my wife is zambian and when she trims my hair she makes sure non is left on the floor...all down the toilet so the cleaner can't take any....same with other stuff....its in her culture...I respect it , and have seen staff on ranch and others who are terrified when a witch doctor is used as a threat against them by local people who want to poach etc...some shit happens that you can't explain...as some have posted ....a witch doctor we got in to try and find out who was stealing, when asked why they held so much power/ influence...he said remember our culture using this was around long before Christianity .....do I believe...not sure ...probably a bit...but I sure as hell am happy not to poke it....

Haven’t read the whole thread yet.
Bet there’s no chameleons in your house! What is it again women there believe if you get bitten by one you can’t have kids?
Ive plenty of story’s of witch doctors but the only one that had a direct effect is below:
I got quite sick when coming through Malawi went to a doctor in Lilongwe who couldn’t find much wrong. It was harvest time and said I should buy a tokoloshe to protect me from the evil sprits as he thought a Witch doctor might have put a curse on me. I’m like yeah right what a load of mumbo jumbo…. But on the walk back to the campsite I started thinking. When I was a kid I’d found a small peace of greenstone in the far north of NZ and had shown it to my neighbor who had blessed it and said keep this it will protect you. So when I went past the big curio market and saw this so brought it straight away put it up in the cab of the truck and it’s been all over. Never figured out what I was sick from but it cleared a few days after.

We learnt in NZ not to muck around with the Maori sprits the elders Kaumatua would tell us “You kids stay away from such and such a place or the sprits will put Utu on you”! It’s a type of revenge that fills up your body. Once found a Mere, war club whilst digging a drain on the back of dads place. Took it up to the neighbours who was an elder and priest his family would not touch it until he came home and gave a blessing over it to remove the utu that it held. (Ray Tarnai same guy that blessed my greenstone) Once done they happily handled it.

If they say go see a witch doctor I’d say go it’s all part of the trip. But do treat it with respect it’s their culture even if you don’t believe in it. They think we are mad that we eat the flesh of Christ and drink his blood.

 

[Foxi]

Almost none of us hunters who live in the mountains would shoot a white chamois.
They say that you will die within a year.
A prominent example was the Austrian heir to the throne, Franz Ferdinand, who fell victim to fatal shots in Sarajevo, which were one of the causes of the 1. World War.
This was followed by Austria's mobilization against Serbia, the German Kaiser was an ally of the Austrian Kaiser; France was an ally of Serbia and so the shit got going, you can see what curses can trigger.

As an enlightened person of the 21st century, I don't believe in the nonsense about the White Chamois, that my fate is also linked to theirs.

Foxi.

p.s but I would never want to shoot one because I have no intention of risking my life just to disprove a fairy tale

 

[Hillbilly Marine]

What a thread! Like my grandfather used to say in the West Virginia hills "I don't believe in 'em, but there's Haints up on that hill"

 

[PerH]

Give us some more details?

Kristoffer Nilsen Svartbækken Grindalen - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In very short without becoming Ruark in length .

It was a cabin in Norway where a lot of parties , accidents and couple of deaths through the years had occurred .

The ordinary log hunting and fishing cabin off the trail but close enough to road that one could hear a car coming 1 mile away if the wind was right .

close to the cabin was the place just called the Block ( or Skafottet ) where an execution in 1876 took place . The last one done until after ww2 .

In the cabin in morning was a weird electric feeling and I woke up and looked towards the other side of the horse shoe shaped benches .

I. Front of me 4-5 meters in front I saw a man sitting with heads in his hands hulking his soul away . The other guy in cabin was opposite me , I thought it was him , but suddenly I saw the sleeping back
Move in sideways corner

Then as light hit in there , I saw the man had 1800s style clothes on him , worn tired exhausted as if a life of crime , bad sleep lot of drink and occasional good food .

As I wondered how he got there the man walked past me and the guy on other side . He was crying and opened the door . Then we just laid down again . And I did before sleep .

But when we woke later it was so cold , the door was fully open and it was almost impossibly to do so otherwise .

We did a CSI and door was open when a couple of guys stopped by , locals and they saw the door open and wondered . I just said « Svartbekken opened it « and they were not surprised over it , just what can go on in the area .

 

[Pondoro]

A woman wich farm I hunted on told me a similar story..waking up an seeing a smallish man dressed in 1600-1700ish clothes sitting by her bedpost.. Suddenly he dissapeared.. This happened in a large timber house from 1645...near the border against Sweden.. convicts got their sentence there as the farm belonged to the local sheriff.. I stayed there during hunting season many times..never noticed anything though..

 

[Foxi]

Puhh.
Scandinavians and alcohol..............
an endless story

 

[steve white]

I have mentioned this before in a different thread but...twenty years ago I was hunting in Kilombero T Z where the PH utilized an American swamp buggy with a chevy 350 engine. The starter housing broke on the far side of an island, fifteen miles from camp as the crow flies--much longer by the winding river. This happened about 4 PM. What to do...none of the fishermen would take us by dugout downstream as the hippos were in breeding season and had already attacked one boat, knocking its motor off. Finally two guys agreed for $20 and a toothbrush each, and they paddled us down. Well, we saw crocodiles stacked on every shore and putting their heads down as the dugout approached. One even slung his tail, whacking the side of the dugout. The game ranger shouted, "don't shoot, is not attacking, is just a collision!" And the hippos? Pods of them every 400 yds or so. They would all submerge with the bull of the lot going down last and making ripples as he came in our direction. Just as everyone jacked their rifle bolts, he would turn and bust out to the side through the matetti cane or just go silent underneath, in which case nobody paddled, just drifted over with fingers crossed. After it got dark, we would hear them behind us, having passed through them without knowing it. Finally we heard the camp generator and saw a lantern held over the cut mud steps leading up the bank.

The PH said, "now pastor, we didn't want to offend you, but the reason those boys gave us a ride at all was because they said the witch doctor had sacrificed a chicken right in their boat, and told them, "now the hippos will flee from you and not attack." He followed, "makes a nice bed time story, eh?"

 

[bmphil]

I was in an Amerindian village in Guyana called Surama. We were doing some jungle stuff and the village elder gave us a guided tour if the village. He stopped at a spot that had about 3 totem poles and told us his village had a bad name in their language (Makushi). He said it meant "human barbecue burn". Then he told us the history that their tribe was hunted for meat by the Caribes until the Spanish put a bounty on the head of cannibals. Their village was a main spot of killing, cooking, and eating the locals. The interior Indians don't care much for the coastal Caribbeans.....and they actually liked the arrival of the Spanish because it stopped their slaughter.
I've sling a hammock out there with the
Bushmasters, Jaguars, and bullet ants. It's a little creepy sleeping where there was a mass slaughter and human barbecue......

 

[Bwana Man]

Fascinating stories!

 

[BGGMKLR]

Honestly not a joking subject.....not surprised he was pissed off......the vast majority of Africans from the guy living in a mud hut in a village in middle of nowhere to the president believe in witchcraft even if they deny it...not a subject to take the piss out of here.....you should have listened to him in the first place.....people if a spell is put on them will literally go and lie down somewhere and die ...not instantly but will deteriorate quickly.....you should respect other peoples culture....

So true. Many Africans believe in curses, witch doctors, and superstitions as fervently as "civilized" populations believe proven settled science...likely more.
In Zim, my PH had built 8-10 thatched roof rondovals to accommodate staff and their families. Upon our return from an afternoon hunt, a handful of folks came rushing to our vehicle. I could not understand the wailing cacophony but came to find out that our head tracker's very pregnant wife was in severe distress.
Harry followed them to the rondoval and returned in a few minutes and told me that things looked extremely bad and that a runner had been dispatched to their village (several Kim's distant) to attempt to fetch the Headman (Witch doctor?). He then said that she was bleeding fairly badly from the rectum and needed desperately to be taken to a hospital.
I told him to put my hunt on the backburner and take as much time as needed to do just that. As best I recall the conversation went something like this:
Go! Get her to the hospital!

I wish I could. It's not that simple.

You can't take her? Why?

Because this is Africa. If I take her and she dies, which is possible, we will be blamed for and responsible for her death.

Spike

 

[Foxi]

"They think we are crazy because we eat the flesh of Christ and drink his blood.”
a true sentence

Every one of us who is really passionate about Africa has certainly already dealt with superstition and fetishism in some way.I have noticed that Christianized Africans are far more devout than we Germans.With the same fervor with which they believe in God and Jesus Christ, they also believe in the devil. This can sometimes lead to discomfort.

Part I of the story:

I was on a cruise with my wife in the Mediterranean sea and landed in Haifa/Israel (not so long ago that you could visit this country.....) and took the bus to Jerusalem.There we visited the Church of Christ, stood in front of his tomb and I placed my hand on the large stone slab where the body of Jesus Christ was washed.Imagine that.I'm not a very religious person, but being able to touch the slab where HE had lain was something that went through my heart and soul.

Part II of the story

A short time later I was hunting buffalo in the wonderful Luangwa Valley.A man from the camp staff wore a very conspicuous cross on a small chain around his neck.I thought it might interest him and told him about my visit to Jerusalem and that this hand (showing the left one) was on the stone where HIS body was washed and cleaned after his death.I was slightly shocked when he grabbed my hand and kissed it and I just managed to stop myself from kneeling down.The man was so enthusiastic about me that it was almost too much for me and his colleagues (probably animists) sometimes looked at me shyly.It could have been my imagination, but since I am quite familiar with the fetishism of Africans, I buried my hand under the sheets at night because I wanted to keep it and not that it ends up as a relic somewhere . News travels fast in Africa and so two days later a black (assistant) pastor came to our camp by bike and wanted to see the man “who touched Jesus”.

Foxi

 

[PrechtlM98]

In 1988 I was in Namibia with my parents. I cought a huge Chamaeleon and
planed to take it home. The room service killed it with a broomstick und refused
to clean the appartement. Made me very sad as a kid.

 

[grand veneur]

"They think we are crazy because we eat the flesh of Christ and drink his blood.”
a true sentence

Every one of us who is really passionate about Africa has certainly already dealt with superstition and fetishism in some way.I have noticed that Christianized Africans are far more devout than we Germans.With the same fervor with which they believe in God and Jesus Christ, they also believe in the devil. This can sometimes lead to discomfort.

Part I of the story:

I was on a cruise with my wife in the Mediterranean sea and landed in Haifa/Israel (not so long ago that you could visit this country.....) and took the bus to Jerusalem.There we visited the Church of Christ, stood in front of his tomb and I placed my hand on the large stone slab where the body of Jesus Christ was washed.Imagine that.I'm not a very religious person, but being able to touch the slab where HE had lain was something that went through my heart and soul.

Part II of the story

A short time later I was hunting buffalo in the wonderful Luangwa Valley.A man from the camp staff wore a very conspicuous cross on a small chain around his neck.I thought it might interest him and told him about my visit to Jerusalem and that this hand (showing the left one) was on the stone where HIS body was washed and cleaned after his death.I was slightly shocked when he grabbed my hand and kissed it and I just managed to stop myself from kneeling down.The man was so enthusiastic about me that it was almost too much for me and his colleagues (probably animists) sometimes looked at me shyly.It could have been my imagination, but since I am quite familiar with the fetishism of Africans, I buried my hand under the sheets at night because I wanted to keep it and not that it ends up as a relic somewhere . News travels fast in Africa and so two days later a black (assistant) pastor came to our camp by bike and wanted to see the man “who touched Jesus”.

Foxi

That's true. In Africa, you have to be careful what you say and who you tell it. We don't live in the same spiritual worlds. In some parts of Africa, something like that can end very badly. Some people cut off hands and other body parts from human for much less. Muti killings in South Africa are a good example for that.

 

[spike.t]

Go! Get her to the hospital!

I wish I could. It's not that simple.

You can't take her? Why?

Because this is Africa. If I take her and she dies, which is possible, we will be blamed for and responsible for her death.

Spike

Correct....you don't want to be involved in any deaths even if trying to help.....you will be blamed....had a scout drown....possibly drown himself in the dam....all scouts had gone for a swim wash...he started swimming across deepest part..the others shouted at him to stop and come back...he went under..came back up..under again..then went down with arm in air...no splashing or commotion at all......I was on my way bringing supplies ..wages etc in from Lusaka...arrived to this....only was informed when I arrived as no signal for last part....when got to dam they had finally found his body and were bringing him to bank.....had some serious shit for few weeks after....couple family members bringing up witchcraft...other scouts killing him etc.....just lose your first world compassion and stay out of any issues like that...

 

[deewayne2003]

That's true. In Africa, you have to be careful what you say and who you tell it. We don't live in the same spiritual worlds. In some parts of Africa, something like that can end very badly. Some people cut off hands and other body parts from human for much less. Muti killings in South Africa are a good example for that.

I watched a documentary years ago about "Albino United" It was a soccer team of Albino Tanzanians that was formed by a school that acts as a sanctuary for albino children; they showed the ramifications of witch craft, including the grave of an infant child that died.... the grave had to be backfilled with concrete to keep witch doctors from digging up the body.

While I understand that superstitions and cultural beliefs have strong holds on people, I consider my self blessed that I grew up in a time and place where chopping the hand off of a child is unfathomable.