The spiral slam and a buffalo on one hunt? What is a spiral slam?

[Ridgewalker]

This thread could really complicate even the so called big 5! So many species, so little time!

 

[Bhfs300]

Just for fun:
I think you may have something here.
Instead of the Big five
Maybe it should be called the Big Ten

Elephant (2)
The African elephant (Loxodonta) is a genus comprising two living elephantspecies, the African bush elephant (L. africana) and the smaller African forest elephant (L. cyclotis)

Buffalo (3)
The African buffalo or Cape buffalo(Syncerus caffer) is a large sub-Saharan African bovine.[2] Syncerus caffer caffer, the Cape buffalo, is the typical subspecies, and the largest one, found in Southern and East Africa. S. c. nanus (the forest buffalo) is the smallest subspecies, common in forest areas of Central and West Africa, while S. c. brachyceros is in West Africa and S. c. aequinoctialis is in the savannas of East Africa.

Lion (2)
Panthera leo
And
Asiatic lions (Panthera leo persica) are a subspecies of African lion, but only one very small population survives in India's Gir Forest.

Leopard
The leopard (Panthera pardus)

Rhino (2)
Black and White

 

[mark-hunter]

Personally, trying to undestand marketing, I would call it:
"South African spiral slam", or "small spiral slam", but not more then that.

 

[Spiffers]

If it was up to me, the word slam would be used to represent "all" of something - so a springbok slam would be the four natural colour phases of springbok, but wouldn't require, for example, a Kalahari as well as a common. There are at least two reasons for this limitation - first, I don't think the Kalahari is actually a separate species, or even a subspecies, but just a regional variation and secondly, it looks exactly the same as the common, but a bit bigger. If you want to include only some of whatever in your grouping, then call it something else, like a Macnab.

The last episode of This Is Africa had a Springbok slam. The lady got a white, black, common, and a tan/brown (wasn't sure which one was common).

 

[Hank2211]

Nope Hank. In this modern "diverse" world of ours, I think you are only a third of the way there. I mean, how can you look yourself in the mirror without acknowledging all the work still to do? How many of the kudu do you have.? The Western Greater Kudu requires a pretty significant expedition alone. And all those sitatunga? I believe there are six at last count and maybe at least five can be hunted - though three in particular, not without some effort. No, I'll congratulate you upon achieving a solid baseline, but you still have lots of work to do.

Yesterday, I received an email from Worldwide Hunting Books, with a bunch of old hunting books for sale. One item was a set of all 5 of Peter Flack's "Hunting the Spiral Horns." (As an aside, these are the limited edition, which are the ones I have, and at a far higher price than I paid for the, so especially tickled!)

In describing the books, the blurb writer had this to say:

This 5 volume set covers hunting all 9 spiral horned antelopes of Africa which are considered among the most desirable trophies on Earth and there are probably less than 200 people alive today who have collected all of them.

As pleased as I would be to find myself among such select company, I have a really hard time believing that only 200 people have hunted all nine of the spiral horns. I thought they might be referring to all of the huntable species of the spiral horns, which would make more sense, but they specifically mention 9.

I think someone got carried away? But feel free to congratulate me on being part of such a small club (I much prefer small clubs; people can quickly become annoying). And perhaps it's time for @Red Leg to eat his words?!

 

[Red Leg]

Yesterday, I received an email from Worldwide Hunting Books, with a bunch of old hunting books for sale. One item was a set of all 5 of Peter Flack's "Hunting the Spiral Horns." (As an aside, these are the limited edition, which are the ones I have, and at a far higher price than I paid for the, so especially tickled!)

In describing the books, the blurb writer had this to say:

This 5 volume set covers hunting all 9 spiral horned antelopes of Africa which are considered among the most desirable trophies on Earth and there are probably less than 200 people alive today who have collected all of them.

As pleased as I would be to find myself among such select company, I have a really hard time believing that only 200 people have hunted all nine of the spiral horns. I thought they might be referring to all of the huntable species of the spiral horns, which would make more sense, but they specifically mention 9.

I think someone got carried away? But feel free to congratulate me on being part of such a small club (I much prefer small clubs; people can quickly become annoying). And perhaps it's time for @Red Leg to eat his words?!

Gladly, if you are now content to be among those that have slain a third of the actual spiral horned species of Africa.

 

[Hank2211]

Gladly, if you are now content to be among those that have slain a third of the actual spiral horned species of Africa.

@Red Leg, thank you for your congratulations. I graciously accept them (I am, after all, Canadian, and we are nothing if not polite. In fact, I think if you take that away . . .we really have nothing else!).

In the circumstances, and given the heartfelt nature of the sentiments expressed, it seems more than a little churlish to point out the error in your statement. However, this who know me best would likely say that I have never stopped at being more than a little churlish, so here goes.

You mention "a third of the actual spiral horned species of Africa."(my emphasis) There are, though, to the best of scientific knowledge, only nine species of spiral horned antelopes in Africa (indeed, in the world), and I have (at least) one example of all nine. I can't help but think you meant "subspecies" rather than "species", and thus fell into entirely excusable (although certainly unexpected in your case), error.

Happy to help. No need to thank me. Just take care of that bottle of Mouton Rothschild which you're no doubt carefully aging for me.

 

[sestoppelman]

You guys crack me up!

 

[mark-hunter]

Well, blackbuck is also spiral horn.
So is Markhor, arguably.
But for Africa, there is 9 species, plus subspecies.
The true question is: who has collected all african species and subspecies of spiral horns?

 

[Hank2211]

Well, blackbuck is also spiral horn.
So is Markhor, arguably.
But for Africa, there is 9 species, plus subspecies.
The true question is: who has collected all african species and subspecies of spiral horns?

Hmm. I think the markhor is a goat, so it can't count as a "spiral horned antelope".

As for the blackbuck, I'm not entirely sure. The horns do have a spiral (more of a "corkscrew"), but most who describe the horns refer to the rings on the horns as a defining characteristic, which none of the (true?!) spiral horned antelope have.

Can we ask @Red Leg to settle this once and for all?

 

[mark-hunter]

So, lets hear red leg!
But I think there is less then 10 people in the world who has collected all subspecies of spiral horns of africa.
(I would be happy with 4 species in south africa, only)

 

[Hank2211]

So, lets hear red leg!

I fear he's gone into hiding . . .! Or is making sure my bottle is secure!

 

[Red Leg]

I fear he's gone into hiding . . .! Or is making sure my bottle is secure!

Actually, I was making sure a dozen were secure. The dear people at FedEx just left a case sitting by the highway. Glad I was home.

Churlish or not, you are correct with regard to the word "species." I will beg the court to strike my hasty use of the incorrect term to attempt the capture the amount of work you still have before you. It is appropriate I should think when trying to claim some sort of record to look at, well, the record book. Let us pick one of your accomplishments - say the eland. By your spiral horn logic a cape eland is Livingstone is a LDE. Who would argue with that assumption?

If we actually peruse the book, SCI, for instance, lists eight different bushbuck alone; four different sitatunga; and six different kudu. Look, I think you should be very proud of your nine animals. I am sure everyone shares in your sense of satisfaction. You can even order a statue at your considerable personal expense from SCI celebrating your achievement. But until the records of big game, whether SCI or R&W, conclude there really is only a single bushbuck, I would think most would agree that you have work to do.

And a markhor is most definitely a goat - an Asian one at that.

 

[Hank2211]

Actually, I was making sure a dozen were secure. The dear people at FedEx just left a case sitting by the highway. Glad I was home.

Churlish or not, you are correct with regard to the word "species." I will beg the court to strike my hasty use of the incorrect term to attempt the capture the amount of work you still have before you. It is appropriate I should think when trying to claim some sort of record to look at, well, the record book. Let us pick one of your accomplishments - say the eland. By your spiral horn logic a cape eland is Livingstone is a LDE. Who would argue with that assumption?

If we actually peruse the book, SCI, for instance, lists eight different bushbuck alone; four different sitatunga; and six different kudu. Look, I think you should be very proud of your nine animals. I am sure everyone shares in your sense of satisfaction. You can even order a statue at your considerable personal expense from SCI celebrating your achievement. But until the records of big game, whether SCI or R&W, conclude there really is only a single bushbuck, I would think most would agree that you have work to do.

And a markhor is most definitely a goat - an Asian one at tha

Oh dear.

I would have thought that someone with your background and education would know better than to throw yourself on the mercy of the court - this or any other. Personally, I am easily persuaded to show mercy; it's just a part of my generally good nature (and has nothing whatever to do with the case of wine you so carefully preserved). But the court, at least in this case, has, I am reliably advised, declined to show any mercy whatsoever. But, after all, what did you expect?

On one thing, though, we agree. I have a great deal of work still to do in the hunting fields of Africa. Unfortunately, this year I'm off to Liberia, which has no spiral horns of any sort I think. And Ethiopia is in a bit of turmoil. So I will try to idle away the days until I can return to the spiral horns by attending to whatever other opportunities come my way.

But I will dream of the Mouton - did we ever agree on the vintage?!

 

[Red Leg]

Oh dear.

I would have thought that someone with your background and education would know better than to throw yourself on the mercy of the court - this or any other. Personally, I am easily persuaded to show mercy; it's just a part of my generally good nature (and has nothing whatever to do with the case of wine you so carefully preserved). But the court, at least in this case, has, I am reliably advised, declined to show any mercy whatsoever. But, after all, what did you expect?

On one thing, though, we agree. I have a great deal of work still to do in the hunting fields of Africa. Unfortunately, this year I'm off to Liberia, which has no spiral horns of any sort I think. And Ethiopia is in a bit of turmoil. So I will try to idle away the days until I can return to the spiral horns by attending to whatever other opportunities come my way.

But I will dream of the Mouton - did we ever agree on the vintage?!

Do you actually remember the issue of the wager? I become more confused with age.

 

[WAB]

Do you actually remember the issue of the wager? I become more confused with age.

In that case, I believe that I was actually the victor in the wager and look forward with great anticipation to that excellent vintage!

 

[Hank2211]

Do you actually remember the issue of the wager? I become more confused with age.

I only remember that I won, and since apparently you can't remember . . .

 

[Red Leg]

I only remember that I won, and since apparently you can't remember . . .

I am thinking likely not. I am fairly sure that it had nothing to do with spiral horns of whatever color.

 

[Hank2211]

I am thinking likely not. I am fairly sure that it had nothing to do with spiral horns of whatever color.

I can confirm that it had nothing to do with spiral horns. But since you can’t remember very much at all, why is it a surprise that you can’t remember I won?

 

[Red Leg]

A valid point. But I am certain that I have not lost. Which leads us to the necessity of examining whatever criteria might clarify an understanding what would reasonably be construed as a win. Before asserting something too conclusive, I would suggest the site's search function might offer some help - particularly with respect to any regional socio-economic considerations.