The shoulder carry

[spike.t]

If I'm hunting dangerous game, I am going to have a round in the chamber. My last three buffalo were killed with either a Blaser R8 or S2, so I can keep the rifle uncocked until I bring it to my shoulder. But I am not going waltzing with buffalo or elephant with an unloaded rifle. And out of respect and an abundance of caution for the PH and tracker in front of me, I sure as the devil won't be carrying any rifle muzzle forward over my shoulder. I would simply reiterate, try that carry on any plantation while hunting quail and you would be tongue-lashed and sent packing instantly. I also suspect most North American guides would be none too thrilled. If my PH wants to do it, fine - that is between him and his tracker. And I would gladly challenge anyone, even at my ancient age, that I can get off a quicker, more accurate shot from a muzzle down sling from the off shoulder than any over the shoulder carry.

Joe my friend not talking about carrying a shotgun on a quail plantation..... You have your blaser with different safety system..... I have always carried mine in the "African carry" but my muzzle is always if on my right shoulder pointing bout 2.45 or so and when changed to other shoulder the mirror image....or over my shoulder hand on grip with muzzle pointing back up into the air....i know your opinion on this subject ....but I don't like slings on my rifles as have had odd sense of humour failure getting hooked up with a sling on the bush... but then I do have single point sling on my pws 114.....so yeah actually just really hate them on a carry rifle....but this like your love of blaser rifles is something we can disagree on over a few drinks in zambia

 

[Red Leg]

Joe my friend not talking about carrying a shotgun on a quail plantation..... You have your blaser with different safety system..... I have always carried mine in the "African carry" but my muzzle is always if on my right shoulder pointing bout 2.45 or so and when changed to other shoulder the mirror image....or over my shoulder hand on grip with muzzle pointing back up into the air....i know your opinion on this subject ....but I don't like slings on my rifles as have had odd sense of humour failure getting hooked up with a sling on the bush... but then I do have single point sling on my pws 114.....so yeah actually just really hate them on a carry rifle....but this like your love of blaser rifles is something we can disagree on over a few drinks in zambia

I have no worries whatsoever with you carrying a rifle however you want to. But I am looking forward to debating it over something malt and rather old at your place.

 

[tarbe]

That's going to work when you don't have time to load it in certain situations.......

In those certain situations, do you really want the client blasting away?

Might be best to just let the pro handle that one!

 

[JPbowhunter]

My shotgun sits over my shoulder broken until my dog indicates birds are near. At which point I'll cary it broken in my hands until something flushes. I think if you can carry a gun shut and shut and jump shoot birds but you can't shut your gun and throw it up in time you're too slow. I've never lost an opportunity i would have otherwise had.

Rifle i use a sling always moving between hunting areas, while stalking rifle in my hands muzzle pointed at the ground.

My old man had us shooting by 5 or 6. But we had safety hammered into us to the point of fear of doing the wrong thing, which we never did. Contrast that with a couple of guys our age that when we did a fox drive once as teens fired a shot in between my brother and I's feet (we were standing next to each other) from a few inches away. They thought it was funny and we didn't really have much to do with them after that. Not so ironically they're notorious poachers around our way these days.

 

[IvW]

Exactly Pheroze, carry an empty gun any way you want,

Loaded or unloaded point the muzzle at me will have the same result from my side....

 

[PaulT]

Firstly, an acknowledgement to Jerome that should the language used in my post be deemed offensive for this site then feel free to amend but note that this is pure emotion exuding from a very sensitive subject for me personally.

Having guided hunters from all over the globe for over a decade the subject of firearms safety for me has NO COMPROMISE.

IN MY CAMP YOU DID IT MY WAY OR YOU GOT TRANSFERRED BACK TO THE LANDINGSTRIP WITH A FULL DEPOSIT IN YOUR ACCOUNT BEFORE YOU GOT HOME.

Someone, ANYONE, carrying a firearm in a manner where the muzzles cover, or haze, another person is NOT ACCEPTABLE regardless of what you are carrying, where you are hunting, who you are hunting with and what number you are in the hunting party.

Haze me with your barrel and the best result will be a punch in the nose,
the worse might be the front site protruding from your nostril.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN UN-LOADED FIREARM !!!!

The African carry is a crock of shit.
When I hunted Africa I explained my sensitivities towards safety and my PH had no problems carrying his arm in a manner that did not haze ANYONE, not me nor the trackers.

After all the threads we have had here on this site where people, who are obviously incapable of learning to deal with recoil, and argue about the "traditional" or "required" weights of certain firearms/calibers "need" to be then need to justify a dangerous carry method to compensate.

What a crock of shit.

Sorry guys, you know I've been here for a long time and have gotten to know quite a few of you really well but some of the responses and "justifications" here are shocking, to me at least.

This thread has made me sweat thinking back on some of the close calls I've had from accidental discharges from so called "empty" firearms in the hands of others who, when it happens, have all the excuses in the world.

Snap out of it,
if you don't intend killing it you should NOT be pointing your firearm at it.

 

[spike.t]

I have no worries whatsoever with you carrying a rifle however you want to. But I am looking forward to debating it over something malt and rather old at your place.

i look forward to you coming to visit us....

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

if you don't intend killing it you should NOT be pointing your firearm at it.

No apologies needed in my opinion Paul. Your last sentence pretty much says it all. At home I have tried the African carry as it is so called. Just envisioning what that would be like in the bush. I have no earthly idea why one would do this for a couple of reasons.

1. You're putting all of the weight of the rifle into one small spot on your shoulder. It took a few moments for me to realize just how uncomfortable that would be in short order.

2. If you're not in the lead, your rifle will be pointed in the general direction of people in front of you. Yes I can see if turned towards one side or the other why it should be safe. But it only takes a moment and not much turning for that to not be true. Furthermore if you're carrying the rifle in this manner and it's parallel to the ground, the muzzle is at the same height as those in front of you. And this is exactly what I see all too often in the African hunting tv shows. It would seem others see this too.

Carry your rifle however you wish, but please make sure it is done so safely.

 

[Hank2211]

Carry your rifle however you wish, but please make sure it is done so safely.

There it is, in a nutshell. It’s not about slings, or carries, or types of rifles, or whatever. It’s about being safe.

And frankly Phil, my guess is you’re further ahead with this calm statement than some others who prefer a rant.

 

[WAB]

Agreed Hank. I’m a little cautious about jumping in to criticize the preferred carry method of our Afrikaans friends for DG hunting. History has shown them to be some of the greatest riflemen ever to bear arms, as the British found out to their chagrin!

 

[bruce moulds]

hank,
there have been no rants about safety in the history of firearms.
paul said it how it is.
dead is dead. and maimed is maimed.
there is no going back if it goes wrong.
70% safe can be 100% dead.
bruce.

 

[Hank2211]

hank,
there have been no rants about safety in the history of firearms.
paul said it how it is.
dead is dead. and maimed is maimed.
there is no going back if it goes wrong.
70% safe can be 100% dead.
bruce.

Have to disagree.

There are many ways to teach firearms safety. I learned from an individual who was calm and unflappable, while I have friends who learned from ranters. I know which is the more effective teaching technique.

But you are entitled to your view.

 

[BenKK]

I use the shoulder carry extensively, holding the barrel pointing forwards. It is convenient and comfortable. I mostly hunt alone, so no issue. If I’m hunting with company I only use it if out in the lead. Muzzle awareness is paramount, and if walking behind somebody there’s absolutely no shoulder carry. A sling is comfortable and useful in certain situations but my biggest fear is it hanging-up on my pack or knife if I need to shoot in a hurry. Sometimes I use the sling for the hike through open country to the hunting area, and stow it before slowly stalking the thick stuff.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Personally I use the African carry in appropriate circumstance! Mostly in open areas never in thick bush! I have no problem with certain clients doing the same. Others I feel uncomfortable to even know that they have access to a firearm! Twice through the years I have had clients who I do not believe would be allowed to own a firearm in the U.S.. Two of them I found out at the end of the hunt had just got out of prison and definitely not for a white collar crime. The other admitted that he was mentally ill and suicidal! When I have a potential client who wants to "use" a rifle I have to wonder why, some are for very legitimate reasons, others?

 

[mark-hunter]

Did you guys (PH-s) ever witnessed accidental discharges, even non lethal, just "bang" in unexpected moment, by careless clients? Was it related to african carry, or just poor firearm handling?

 

[PaulT]

Did you guys (PH-s) ever witnessed accidental discharges, even non lethal, just "bang" in unexpected moment, by careless clients? Was it related to african carry, or just poor firearm handling?

I am no longer professionally guiding, but when I was, yes 3.

Two were in camp and one whilst on the final approach whilst the client was behind me. Fortunately, in the last case the muzzle was not pointed at me.

In all instances it is extremely unnerving to have an unexpected accidental discharge go off.

 

[bruce moulds]

paul,
there is no such thing as an accidental discharge.
that term is an excuse for lack of management, and an attempt to water down the truth of what really happened.
there is NO excuse.
bruce.

 

[WAB]

I don’t totally agree. While hunting alone in Northern Ontario 30 years ago or so, I had a seat fail on my rifle. The rifle was pointed in a safe direction and the safety was on. I was shocked. The rifle was in good repair. It must have been a flaw in the metal.

An interesting side note, on another occasion I had a pack of wolves trail me out of the bush for 4 or 5 miles. It was after dark but due to the moon and snow I could see them ghosting through the trees but could not get a shot. Very unusual behavior for wolves.

 

[WAB]

Sear (spellcheck!)

 

[Velo Dog]

No such thing as an empty gun. All firearms are always treated as if they are loaded.

Having seen more than one or two gunshot wounds in humans (retired Police Officer), I am totally +1 with you on this.