The Sako 9,3x54R

[Vashper]

For the legal possession of weapons, we require a permit for each weapon. Under this permit it is possible to buy ammunition. Foreigners also have the same permit, a temporary - and is engaged in the receiving side, the organization that organizes hunting tours. Now the rules are a bit relaxed, and foreign hunters can move around the country with weapons on their own, unaccompanied. But the purchase of ammunition is not regulated by law. I'll ask on our website.

"To obtain a permit for the temporary import of weapons and ammunition for the purpose of participation in hunting, as well as its return export, hunting organizations submit to the OHRM of the Ministry of internal Affairs of Russia or the territorial body of the Ministry of internal Affairs of Russia.

The application is attached:
a copy of the agreement on the provision of services in the field of hunting...;
the list of number registration of the weapon imported into the Russian Federation, with indication of its type, model, caliber, series and number, and also type and number of cartridges (in the presence)".

 

[Vashper]

Exactly, and if you alter to a larger caliber, and barrel change is not necessary, you can drill out the old one. Finns did hunting rifles under a sleeve of Mosin and bullets of 8,2 mm from Mauser 98 (they had a large stock of these bullets from the German deliveries after 1918), and not only discussed here 9,3.
In Russia there were calibers 5,6, 6,5 mm (sports, now you will not find them), 8.2 (too), 9.3 mm and now even 10.85 for special Lancaster drilling.

 

[HWL]

The diameter oft this "Lancaster" seems to be 10,3 mm, isn't it?

This would make sence, we have a cartridge 10,3x60R also known as .450/400 2 3/8" Nitro Express.

This "Lancaster" cartridge is based on the 7,62x53R cartridge case also?

Russian sporting arms and ammunition seems to be very interesting....

A picture of the special Lancaster Drilling would be great!!!

Thanks for all the information.


HWL

 

[Vashper]

The range of cartridges in shops is very specific. Foreign ammunition is very expensive (sanctions, embargoes, etc.). I understand that this is only for the collapse of the tyrannical regime, but for the average hunter it is uncomfortable. There is a good South African, and Yugoslav. There is Russian, here is in your caliber (roughly on 60 cents) https://www.air-gun.ru/patroni/nare..._po_gg_og_npz_v_pachke_21_sht_tsena_1_patrona

And about Lancaster drilling... it's not rifle, it's shotgun

400 metres

 

[bruce moulds]

yes there was a 35/303, and a 375/303, as well as a 243/303 and a 270/303.
bruce.

 

[Scrumbag]

yes there was a 35/303, and a 375/303, as well as a 243/303 and a 270/303.
bruce.

Thanks Bruce, I had no idea about those.

Cheers,

Scrummy

 

[yumastepside]

Vashper, do you have any information on the cartridge with the 10.3 projectile in the 53/54 mm case? Bullet weights, velocity, etc.
It appears very similar to a wildcat I have called the 405 Grenadier, a .412 dia. bullet in an improved /blown out 7.62 or 9.3x54R case ( mine is built on a Siamese Mauser action with a Pac-Nor barrel )

Roger

 

[hongisto]

Greetings from Finland! I came across with this thread by an accident and it was also a reason to join to this forum.

This rifle is definitely manufactured by SAKO and correct caliber is 9,3x53R (Finnish). SAKO made these rifles in 1943-1950 from soviet captured Mosin-Nagant rifles (round or hexagon receiver). I have excatly same rifle with serial number 101992 and it is manufactured in 1945. Typical features are drum type rear sight, oiled birchwood stock and "ring type" safety. Drum type rear sight is stamped with numebers 1...1,5...2 and 2.5, which means 100 meters, 150 meters, 200 meters and 250 meters. Bolt handle is always straight in original versions like military Mosin-Nagant rifles. Early versions has casted aluminium butt plate with SAKO logo (without pistol grip cap). My rifle is later type and it has bakelite (plastic) butt plate AND -pistol grip plate similar to SAKO L46 rifles. We have to keep in mind, that plastic buttplate and pistol grip plate was some kind of luxury in 1945, when there was lack of all kind of raw materials in all industry areas... but it is SAKO

Unfortunately, your rifle has been modified, because casted aluminium buttplate is missing. It has rubber buttplate, which is typical for Sako rifles manufactured in 1970's or 80's. Bolt handle is also bent, because of afterward scope installation. Three holes in the receiver are for german EAW lateral slide- on mount for Mauser 98 rifles, which was probably installed in 1980's (I have seen some of those modifications in finnish Mosin-Nagant rifles). So, your rifle is not "former sniper rifle" by any means.

According to finnish hunting law from 1930's, caliber for moose hunting rifles had to be "over 8mm". This requirement disappeared in early 1960's, but result of this law was commercial hunting calibers like 9,3x53R (Finnish) in year 1942 and 8,2x53R (Finnish) in year 1945. Modifications were made in most cases from military rifles by reaming the barrels for new dimensions.

Original drawing for SAKO 102D -bullet was dated in 4th of July in 1942. This is 16,6grams (256 grains) soft point bullet for moose hunting. You have to keep in mind, that this caliber is ONLY Finnish modification and there is NOTHING to do with Russian 9x53R cartridges (different measures, different twist of rate in barrel, different bullet weight etc.). So, you must use SAKO 9,3x53R cartridges only.

 

[HWL]

I mounted a Zeiss Duralyt 1,2-5x36 on a EAW pivot, stock refinished, new recoil pad, checkering and hardwood pistol grip.

Feed and zeroed with 270 gr Speer semi spitzer.

Now, I am looking for a finnish moose....

If necessary, it comes with it's comrade, a Sako L46 in 7x33.



HWL

 

[yumastepside]

.....not wanting to hi-jack this thread, but 2 things.....does anyone have any information on the Lancaster cartridge with the 10.3 projectile, and I would like to clarify that the 405 Grenadier was not my creation but that of an American friend.

Roger

 

[perttime]

View attachment 320831

I mounted a Zeiss Duralyt 1,2-5x36 on a EAW pivot, stock refinished, new recoil pad, checkering and hardwood pistol grip.

Feed and zeroed with 270 gr Speer semi spitzer.

Now, I am looking for a finnish moose....

If necessary, it comes with it's comrade, a Sako L46 in 7x33.



HWL

There's some Finnish hunting associations that will take guests. Googling for "moose hunting finland" didn't find many...

7x33 was developed for shooting forest grouse from up in the trees.

 

[hongisto]

This is early version of Sako 9,3x53R rifle, with aluminium butt plate. This rifle in pictures is not mine. All rifles were stamped "9,3x53" without "R", because it was common way to announce this caliber in 1940's. Typical feature for early Sako 9,3x53R rifle is also front sling swivel installed to the stock. I have later version manufactured in 1945 and sling swivel is soldered to the barrel.

 

[HWL]

Do you have a rifle like this,.... or do you know someone who owns & hunts with such a rife?

HWL

 

[hongisto]

This is my rifle and it is manufactured in 1945. Please, notice bakelite pistol grip cap and soldered sling swivel in barrel. Front sight is always without sight hood. If you compare serial numbers to yours, these are quite close to each other, but time frame is almost 2 years. This kind of rifles are nowadays quite rare in hunting.

Original Sako 102D soft point bullet is heavy, but equipped with thin wall 0,3...0,35 mm. There was also Sako 103D, weight 10 grams, full metal jacket bullet available, but it discontinued in 1950's (never even seen one).

 

[Pondoro]

Nice post...I found an old Sako cartridge box..

 

[perttime]

The ammunition specs in the second photo are a little skewed.

"Moose round"

Powder: Vihtavuori N16 (apparently similar burning rate as current Vihtavuori N140)
Charge: 3.3 gram / 50.9 grains
Bullet: 102D 16.6 gram / 256 grains (still listed by Sako)
V25: (velocity at 25 meters) 670 m/s /2198 fps
E25: (energy at 25 meters) 380 kpm / 3727 Joule / 2749 ftlb


Civilianized Mosin-Nagants used to be common in moose hunts. Not anymore. Almost everybody has gone for more modern rifles.

 

[HWL]

This is my rifle and it is manufactured in 1945. Please, notice bakelite pistol grip cap and soldered sling swivel in barrel. Front sight is always without sight hood. If you compare serial numbers to yours, these are quite close to each other, but time frame is almost 2 years. This kind of rifles are nowadays quite rare in hunting.

Original Sako 102D soft point bullet is heavy, but equipped with thin wall 0,3...0,35 mm. There was also Sako 103D, weight 10 grams, full metal jacket bullet available, but it discontinued in 1950's (never even seen one).

This is an untouched beauty....!!!

Congrats to this rifle.

Do you hunt with?..how does it perform?


HWL

 

[HWL]

Got this at an auction in vienna last autumn.

Do you have an idea how old this ammo is?

The box is still unopend.

 

[perttime]

Got this at an auction in vienna last autumn.

Do you have an idea how old this ammo is?

The box is still unopend.

View attachment 321023 View attachment 321024

I might be totally wrong but:
- Sako started making 9.3x53 rounds in 1942.
- The powder designation VRT L-17 must refer to Valtion ruutitehdas, which operated under that name from 1926 to 1944.

So, I'm guessing that box is about as old as possible. Mid '40s?

 

[HWL]

Do you know, what the "L" means in 9,3x53 R/L

HWL